2019 ED Pass: Divine Sphere

[JOTMON]

You missed avatar of nature being completely neutered with5 minute cooldown and a limited duration.

Avatar of Nature got screwed... resulting in tree extinction...

[SpartanKiller13]

Thanks for the feedback so far! Time to tackle a few replies:
I'm honestly not sure whether the flat hate added by the attacks gets scaled by %-based increases to Hate. Unfortunately, I can't scale it directly. (Have a look at my opening blurb about Unyielding Sentinel - The tools at our disposal for adjusting hate are not good, and I don't think I have the engineering resources to fix that right now, sadly. I'd like to. If I can in the future, I will.).

Thank you for your response!

I understand spaghetti code, fair enough. I'll wait for seeing if the Hate is scaled by % bonuses, but if not could you perhaps "tweak the numbers" a bit higher then? Adding 300 Hate won't put you much ahead of even heroic characters (my Cleric was hitting 1500's at level 14). Even the 2000 is beatable by many heroic characters in terms of a single attack, let alone however much damage they can put out during the 6 second cooldown of this & Intimidate.

[Strambotica]

EA.

· With the big nerf to Reborn in light to sell more cakes (i really cant think in another good reason for it). Could at least fix it? many times you click it while you moving and spend the charge, start the timer, but there is NO res.

· Agree with the idea of disconnect Endless Faith from Healing and Radiant Power.

[jskinner937]

Playing EA a lot both on Favored Soul and Sorcerer, here are some things that bug me:

* The spell points extension enhancement "Endless Faith" T1 is far too expensive, ideally this was detached from the spellpowers, this is a fairly low amount of enhancement for almost half the points sinked into it.
* I have a bad relationship with stack building mechanics, as it is not compatible with a bunch of other popular builds, including my own instant kills. Blood and Radiance: is a road block to get to the good stuff
* Soundburst SLA needs a hard target, while the spell can be tossed anywhere. (Actually it has been so long since i tried, it might be changed since then...)
* Be at Peace is overpriced, too long cooldown, little effect.
* All things that reset Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor stacks, why?
* Astral Vibrance is mostly redundant and very mana expensive (I have never had a situation where I should have used it instead of other healing abilities/spells)
* If forged character using Ascendance lose energy drain immunity.
* Divine Wrath hard targeted will be lost if the target dies while casting, probably WAI, but not less annoying. The best use i found is kinda silly, i run next to the intended targets, and toss it under myself from a jump

Instead of a hard nerf to reborn in light, please consider adding a new T6 that allows to train an ability that lets it slowly recharge. Maybe for some major spell points sacrifice on top.

All of this and worth mentioning again...get rid of the 9 points to get the tier 3 echoes. Sad thing is that you are better off twisting than taking it live in the tree due to the pre-reqs. Just make those three trees separate. And the same for blood and radiance.

[jskinner937]

EA.

· With the big nerf to Reborn in light to sell more cakes (i really cant think in another good reason for it). Could at least fix it? many times you click it while you moving and spend the charge, start the timer, but there is NO res.

· Agree with the idea of disconnect Endless Faith from Healing and Radiant Power.

People mainly used it to solo raids. You cannot cake in a raid. It needed nerfed as it was allowing players to do things they shouldn’t.

[Iriale]

Could you tell me, lynnabel, if it is feasible to add some support to turn undead in exalted angel? Really this aptitude would be much more viable if it had some support in the EDs.

[Alcides]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.

• Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
• Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
• Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
• Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
• Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
• Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
• You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
• Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
• NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
• NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

Please include the following for the Unyielding Sentinel pass.

• Make Legendary Shield Mastery cost a single rank for 2EP for the full benefit based on the best feat the player has.
• Reduce the cost of Intolerant Blows to 1 rank and change the type of Threat from Sacred to Untyped.
• Reduce the cost of Brace for Impact to 1 EDP per rank.
• Reduce the cost of Light the Dark to 1 EDP.
• Reduce the cost of Spark of Life to 1 EDP.
• Reduce the cost of Purify Weapons to 1 EDP.
• Reduce the cost of Anoint Weapons to 1 EDP.

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.

• Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
• Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
• No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
• Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
• Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
• Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
• Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
• Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
• Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
• Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
• Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
• Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
• Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
• Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
• Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
• Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
• Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
• NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
• NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)

Please include the following during the Divine Crusader pass.

• Change Consecration to be affected by the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Criticals and the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Power.
• Change Consecration to be affected by Metamagic feats.
• Change Sacred Ground to be affected by the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Criticals and the higher of Fire or Positive Spell Power.
• Change Sacred Ground to be affected by Metamagic feats.

[Trippy]

Unyielding Sentinel
This Destiny was meant to do two things: Keep you alive and help you tank. It's decent at the first and not great at the second. Most of the changes here are meant to help you tank. The two new Actives aren't perfect; we had some bigger plans and ran into tech issues in doing what we wanted. Hoping they'll at least be helpful, and we can tweak numbers until they are.

• Commanding Presence's hate doubles to 100/200/300%
• Stand Against the Tide's extra hate jumps to 50% per stack (250% at full stacks, was 100%)
• Stand Against the Tide's extra hate now applies to missile weapon damage and magic damage as well (was previously melee-only)
• Divine Energy Resistance can now be cast directly on allies (instead of only yourself)
• Ward Against Evil's light damage scales with 400% of the higher of Melee and Ranged Power
• Rank 3 of Ward Against Evil now also grants you immunity to the Mind Control effects of Evil creatures.
• You can now use Undying Vanguard while Crowd-Controlled and/or Helpless
• Undying Vanguard's Temporary HP now last for 30 seconds.
• NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
• NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

I feel Unyielding Sentinels problem is it is too expensive to buy the stuff to both keep you alive and help you tank (much less dabble in fun stuff in the tree). Maybe those bigger plans will address this, but with stuff being spread over three stances, costing two points or having three levels, it does not leave room.

of the 24 EDPs, 22 (or 24 if not a paladin) appear to be spent on basic tank stuff
3 Commanding Presence
3 Shield Prowess
3 Block Energy
3 Legendary Shield Mastery
2 Intolerant Blows (+2 Fanaticism if you do not already have Smite Evil)
3 Hardened
3 Strength of Vitality
2 Undying Vanguard

Leaving little to no room for Brace for Impact (4 points), Spark of Life (2), *new* Ward Against Evil (3) for keeping you aliveness without eating up inventory slots.
Or room for Endless Smiting (3), *new* Draw them Out (1), *new* Celestial Mandate (1) for keeping aggro-ness

Ideally we should be able to get all of them, or most then have a few points left to pick from the fun stuff like the LoH related abilities or DER. While on the other side a non-tank grinding though the tree should be able to spend almost all of the 24 points on fun stuff with little or none wasted on just tankyness. (I think such a build right now is around 19ish points which sounds pretty close to good, blowing 4 points on more Con isn't the end of the world.)

So suggestion wise, either reduce the cost of the basic tank abilities from 22-24 to around ~16 or combine abilities so all the ones that currently only keep you alive also include aggro or fun secondary effects. There is some of this with the Smite Evil related stuff and then new Ward Against Evil, but Hardened, Strength of Vitality, and Shield Prowess could all use secondary bonuses.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Unyielding Sentinel

Your proposed changes look really good. But there are a few enhancements that are not really worth the cost.

Brace for Impact - Currently this is 2 ranks and 2 points per rank and grants a total of +2 to all saves and 40% fort. It's very expensive for a tier 1 enhancement. Other destinies have similar save enhancements that gives +6 to 1 save, +6 to a skill and in Magister's case no fail on a one, all for 3 points. I would recommend either decreasing the point cost to two or adding something, maybe a bonus to balance.

Fanaticism - This adds 1d6 alignment damage while Unbreakable stance is active. Any chance of increasing this to say 5d6, or scaling it with melee power? It's nice having enhancement modify the stances, but 1d6 damage isn't much of anything.

Anoint Weapon - Same problem as Fanaticism but worse. You must spend 2 points to gain 2d6 damage vs evil targets which only works while in Stand Against the Tide. And unlike Fanaticism this enhancement grants no other bonuses and it's a tier 5 so it has really tough competition. Perhaps it could be rolled into Purify Weapon, its pre-req.

Here is an idea going along with the theme of the two new enhancements you guys put out:

T6: Channeled Smiting: (cooldown 60 seconds) Expand a use of smite evil and for 20 seconds you gain +1 Critical Damage Multiplier and attacks add 500 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage.

[J-mann]

This should be fixed on live right now. If you find that it's still getting tripped up, please let me know

Could we get it to apply evocation bonuses to its dc? Even with a 60 stat mod (which im not sure is possible with wisdom) its only a 100 dc vs a fort save.... really quite low. Please add evo dcs to the formula.

[J-mann]

Mentioned it above but I think its worth repeating...

I really like the idea of Favored Weapons. But until there's actually a reason TO wield Favored Weapons other than Grace/Knowledge of Battle, I see very little reason to spend so much time expanding what's Favored.

All of Warpriest's FW-based attacks are either lackluster or too expensive for what they give you. And that's the ONLY thing wielding a FW gives you right now. Maybe you have plans coming up for this with the KotC revamp - I would fully expect that you did - but I think even then FW needs some more systemic improvement to make them attractive enough to take over meta weapons.

EDs would be a good place to introduce some of these mechanics - substantial bonuses or special abilities while wielding a FW, enough that you'd want to use, e.g., an Olladra Sickle over a Khopesh or KT Longsword.

Warpriest is still pretty much a trash tier tree. I have not seen a single person using warpriest for a primary tree since it was revamped, that should tell SSG how bad it is. Of course they could have just listened to feedback and known that but w/e. DC is looking better now, but I dont think I would ever pick it over LD or SD in its current iteration, it needs more umph still. I recommend some more MP/RP in the cores and maybe a revamp on Zeal as it still feels rather iffy, but that might just be my innate dislike of long cd abilities talking (the too good to use effect). Of course the aura actually working right and hitting all mobs in range rather than just 1 might help as well, but either way I still cannot see a reason for a melee divine to take this tree over LD, it still needs a little something.

[Tist]

People mainly used it to solo raids. You cannot cake in a raid. It needed nerfed as it was allowing players to do things they shouldn’t.

So make it non functional in raids, quest only, and aside from that fix it so it doesn't consume a charge if it fails, and take the charging up aspect away. Already pointed out the functionality can't be considered unfair if you are fine selling cakes that do the same thing.

No no, burn the whole barn down since the door got a hole in it. Screw it just take off and nuke the site from orbit. This reaction fits the original definition of knee jerk swinging the nerf bat.

[Aelonwy]

I have 3 general issues that I think would change epic destinies for the better:

(1) expand the +1 stat bonuses to all 6 stats.
This enables toon that the destines are not build for to still use that destiny to some effect. It will make leveling off destinies slightly less painful. In addition it increases the different character builds available to take advantage of a destiny like this. Since destinies are designed to be used by many different builds this will only increase the diversity available.

(2) reduce the cost of +1 stats bonuses to 1 AP.
When Epic destinies where reduces most stats maxed out at ~60-70. Today the max is well over 130 for some stats. Thus the value of increasing stats has reduced, with the exception of characters who are defined by abilities on the d20 scale (like DC's). In addition since you are re-vamping and improving the existing destinies this will increase the number of action points stat hungry characters have to spend into the new toys and make for a more enjoyable experience.

Totally agree with the above. If destinies are supposed to be divorced from any particular class and instead synergize with a particular play-style then having the stat bonuses be generic would be best. You want people to play with their destiny abilities but those that absolutely depend on making a particular DC are going to ignore anything that does NOT improve their chances of success and at 2 destiny points per stat that occupies half of their destiny choices.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

Exalted Angel

1) As others have pointed out it takes 9 points for Exalted Angel to get Endless Faith. This is an easy T1 twist for many non-Exalted Angel casters and Exalted Angel users typically pass on it because of its crazy point cost. It would be great if Endless Faith lost its 2 requirements and simply cost 1 point per rank.

2) Activating Reborn in Light also activates Astral Vibrance. For the 2 minutes Reborn in Light is in effect Astral Vibrance costs 0 SP. However when Reborn ends, Astral Vibrance doesn't turn off. Many players are caught off guard and before they know it Astral Vibrance used up quite a bit of their spell points. It would be great if Astral Vibrance turned off when Reborn ended to avoid having to turn it off manually and prevent accidental SP loss. (It goes without mentioning that Astral Vibrance does very little damage for its SP cost, its an ability no one EVER uses.)

3) Many of the other spells/spell like abilities in other trees are gaining tactics DC bonuses or spell school bonuses. The spells in EA should get spell school bonuses as well. Soundburst is unusable at cap. It's impossible to get the DC to a reasonable level. Avenging Light, Sun Bolt and Divine Wraith should get school bonuses as well, just like Draconic's SLAs. Sun Bolt has a reflex saving and currently it is mostly useless against monster is evasion because the DC is so low without school bonuses.

4) Turn Undead doesn't have much support in the epic levels. Crusader has a regen T1 enhancement and you recently started to add some updated Turn Undead bonuses to items at cap, but the ability has huge usability issues in epic levels especially low epics. There is an empty spot in EA tree at Tiers 2, 5, and 6. Maybe a +2/4/6 to maximum Hit Dice enhancement could work in one of those places? or some other Turn Undead bonus?

5) The boost to DCs is Magister is great. For a long time many arcanes played in EA for the innate +3 DC in EA's core. But giving Magister 6 DC more than Exalted Angel is just going to cause the reverse problem. You have two kinds of Spell DC players in the game: Divines and Arcanes. With a gap this big in the other direction most divines are going to be running Magister.

There is an empty spot in T5 of Exalted Angel, please put a +1/2/3 spell DC enhancement there, even if it is just for one spell school (necromancy), similar to how Magister is getting +3 DCs at T5. It will keep EA on somewhat more equal footing with Magister and would give divines a reason to play in a divine destiny. Even with 3 extra DCs in the 5th tier, Magisters players would still have a higher possible DC bonus, it just won't be quite as stark.

In short, with the current plan of no changes to EA and plenty of buffs to other casting destinies, many divine casters are going to be playing in the arcane sphere destinies. Draconic is getting SLAs with usable DCs and spell crit damage boost which will attract DPS casting divines and Magister is getting a large DC boost which will attract most of the DC casting divines.

[DaviMOC]

Hey guys, Steel and Lyn.

I was at first sight very happy with this:

"NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)",

However i started to think about the possibilities and realized its actually very bad. Let us consider a Paladin/FVS/Cleric planning to use for example the greatsword. He will need to level trough 1-20 with a different weapon or style( going spellcasting/single weapon/ 2wf/ weapon&shield) with maybe zero deity favor on the weapon and stye he chooses to take place of that GSword until he hits 20.

Not every cleric/fvs can use martial weapons. If the cleric chooses war domain for this purpose or takes a feat for this he will be in a melee domain with half his warpriest tree wasted during the first 20 lvls. Similar issues applys to FVS. Paladins may be the less penalized ones on this case and its the one that benefits less from this addition.

Please consider it being part of KoTC, Warpriest, Warsoul trees. Those weapons( safe for the bow) already are iconic divine warrirors weapons that dont have favored weapons defined. If you guys insists on keeping it as an ED ability let it be a lower tier. A T4 twist is a very expensive price for those who would have any benefit from it to pay and may render any possible build around it not wroth as t4 are very precious already. Also while it opens possibilities its a very exclusive ability and the prices to pay for doing the basics of a build actuallys goes against the philosophy of adding more flexibility to EDs.


Edit.: Also consider that Divine Crusader for Melees already is points starving on every tier but even more on higher ones. We got Strike Down, Heavenly Presence, Celestial Champion that makes hard to keep a descent conscaration on the build. Adding new t4 and t6 makes it even more starving and locking out the tree full potential specially if anyone plans on an hybrid melee/caster cleric adding celestial bombardment/Stand and Be Judged to the math.

PS.: Please consider "fixing" strike down animation? Making you stop moving in an era that kiting is the main tanking techinique is a big issue.

[TitusOvid]

snip

Exalted Angel
This is a good tree, for those who can make use of the skills in it. We analyzed it and didn't see much that we thought merited major change, though we might try to loop back for some bugfixes before release. We did make a change to one skill for game balance reasons.

• Reborn in Light no longer charges with Endless Ardor and Righteous Fervor; instead, it is once per Rest (keeps 10min cooldown).

snip
[/LIST]

For game balance reasons ... It is not overly powerful with the long cooldown and is only used to prevent a party wipe as a last effort. So what is unbalanced here?
I suppose the real reason is, you don't like solo Strahd completions or something similiar. That is really a niche use for this ability and you have to give up better trees for that ability. It is only taken to see if it is possible to solo something like Strahd and not to exploit it to break the game. There is no benefit in it, just bragging rights. And if people suffer through a solo Strahd completion, they have every right to brag, imo.
So at least be truthful and give us a valid reason.

Cheers,
Titus.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Here's what you have to work with to base such on!

"The Sovereign of Forge and Flame Onatar is revered by smiths, craftsmen, artificers, dwarves and even a small portion of warforged." Click for source!

How to theoretically achieve this!

1-Anything in the Dvine Crusader Tree that offers positive healing based benefits (Such as spellpower, healing amp, or an SLA) allow that to also offer the repair variation or at least repair compatibility.

2-Add Dwarven War Axes and Bastard Swords to favored weapons options

3-Grant Artificers who were able to take an Artificer capstone enhancement Onatar as a deity (Meaning all 20 base levels taken in Artificer class, you know.... to reward said artificers for their devotion to a class that is by lore known to follow Onatar)

4-Give artificers 2 religious lore feats per level gained in Divine Crusader Tree (You could do this for anyone really as having some religious lore knowledge would be necessary when serving as a divine crusader as to ensure you do not offend whatever deity you are in service of as a Crusader).

5-Include Intelligence enhancements in Tree for Artificers.

6-Allow artificers to use their intelligence stat for wisdom based saves (Will saves)

7-Create some sort of enhancement that allows artificers to use their fire spellpower and spell critical chance (Because fire is heavily related to Onatar) for use in determining the scaling for all of their runearms (Because runearms are a weapon used specifically by Artificers, Onatar deals in weapons, and Artificers are by lore known for revering Onatar).

And Voila, with this Melee artificers would officially no longer be homeless in Epic Destiny trees!

Editing is done, no more further editing is required!

[darknoobslayer]

Any update on possible Exalted Angel changes?

[Avocado]

US changes: Can we get some love for pure hate tanks that just intimate and turtle which is really the only viable way to tank harder content. If you want to be a really beefy high reaper tank you need to dump all dps and go max in of prr/mrr/hp/ac/dodge. I dont think you understand that pure tanks dont do dps to hold aggro, they just intimidate. IDK if thats the way you want it but thats the way it is. My tank hits for about 50 damage at 30 on elite. 1000% threat would still make that 500 a hit. This is not enough damage to compensate for people hit for 3k a pop. As a tank i often can hold agro with intim but lose it as soon someone does some sort of burst dps like adrenaline slayer or shuriken attacks. Tanks should not be able to lose aggro to that. Gearing for tank is very challenging because intimate gear so sparse. You cant wear a LGS cha skills item if you want to keep LGS opposition hp bonus. Compound that with mobs that have high wisdom or charisma stats and you cant intim them with something that is reasonably achievable (like 150 intim wont work). That being said, more intimidate in the tree would be a welcome change like +20 or something. Also, tanks cant intim certain constructs and undead, can you add a tier ability that allows us to intim monsters that cant be influenced?

NEW: T4: Draw them Out: Melee Attack: +3[w]. This attack adds 300 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)
NEW: T6: Celestial Mandate: Melee Attack: +5[w]. This attack adds 2000 Hate for the user to creatures it hits on top of its normal damage. 6 second cooldown. (1 Rank, 1AP)

What is 2000 or 300 hate. Percent hate or 2000 static number hate? What does that mean? What would static 2000 hate actually mean?

AGAIN PLEASE ADD MORE INTIMIDATE TO US FOR HATE TANKS.

[Ultramaetche1]

• Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
• Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power

Would it also be possible to make this ability trigger the “when you use a Turn Undead” abilities from cleric domains? Because right now it doesn’t.