2019 ED Pass: Divine Sphere

[Steelstar]

Do you know what you are doing? You are empowering already over-performing style, instakill spells.

EA core's passive 3DC should be removed, and don't add PASSIVE DC on magister core.
Instead, add more power for debuffing spells and enlarge meta magic shouldn't be applied on high skull(7+) for at least instakill spells.

Yes, we know what we're doing here.

[draven1]

Yes, we know what we're doing here.

Didn't you realize most power-gamers are already on DC casters or wolves who is addicted to duped pots? Think why they are.

So, why do you empower already Over-performing style?

[Thar]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

The DCs in magister that are posted are fine. That is really all the tree is good for. The arcane tempest was too low damage, too long cooldown and everything has 10% spell point reduction. There really isn't a good capstone abillity for the tree all it can do is boost DCs and spells from one school. yes summons are still garbage. sigils are still garbage. null magic has it's spots but overall meh.

EA givs heals, attack spell, DCs, abilities for CHR/WIS classes and more. A much more well rounded caster destiny than magister. If anything magister needs a bit of a bump on the top end effects to make someone want to take it. EA is fine as is.

[Thar]

Didn't you realize most power-gamers are already on DC casters or wolves who is addicted to duped pots? Think why they are.

So, why do you empower already Over-performing style?

it's only overperforming if you have every ability boost, spell DC boost and past life, triple, racial, epic completionist affecting the same. Not everyone has that. At that point, almost any build but Pally is good. You can't base the game on .1% of the players.

[draven1]

it's only overperforming if you have every ability boost, spell DC boost and past life, triple, racial, epic completionist affecting the same. Not everyone has that. At that point, almost any build but Pally is good. You can't base the game on .1% of the players.

It's not at all.

Proposed magister ED change would bring +9 more DC from current. That's far enough to make non completionist to level of current powergamer's DC.

It would be 'save free' DC for instakill spells and make other non-spell based DC skills more useless.

[Gemini-Dragon357]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

They should have close to equal potential as DC casting trees. You’ve got two kinds of DC casters: divines and arcanes. Many arcane casters were running EA because it had +3 DC advantage over the other trees from an innate core enhancement. From what I read of the new Magister changes, the ED is gaining +9 untwistable DC. This will have an even bigger pull than the arcanes to EA for +3. FvS will go Cha for DCs and use Magister. Clerics, if they don’t switch to FvS, will probably use magister too.

With EA having 3 untwistable and Magister having 9. Giving EA a new T5 that adds +1/2/3 to evo or necro would help balance things a bit. Or removing 3 from Magister. Either way even with this change Magister will still have a higher DC potential.

[janave]

They should have close to equal potential as DC casting trees. You’ve got two kinds of DC casters: divines and arcanes. Many arcane casters were running EA because it had +3 DC advantage over the other trees from an innate core enhancement. From what I read of the new Magister changes, the ED is gaining +9 untwistable DC. This will have an even bigger pull than the arcanes to EA for +3. FvS will go Cha for DCs and use Magister. Clerics, if they don’t switch to FvS, will probably use magister too.

With EA having 3 untwistable and Magister having 9. Giving EA a new T5 that adds +1/2/3 to evo or necro would help balance things a bit. Or removing 3 from Magister. Either way even with this change Magister will still have a higher DC potential.

100% this. Categorically EA is not a "better DC caster", it has draws because it gives the better toolkit. Magister is fairly strong, but with a less desirable toolkit. Ramping up Magister DCs will make us get the rest of the toolkit from other layers and enjoy a massive boost.

Then, it will be categorically true that all meta casters (aka necro and enchant spec) will auto trace to Magister.

This will also net result in a row of new twists, so even more DC, spell pen, stuffs.

[LurkingVeteran]

Steelstar: If I recall correctly, all DC classes (e.g. Wiz,Wlk, Sorc, Bard, Cleric) reached about the same DCs by end-game through the sum of their trees + EDs, where Wis/Cha went EA. Wizards were ahead of the rest in heroic, but EA let the others catch up. I assumed this was intentional. Wizards will now be ahead by ~3 DC, and everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population).

Is this a change of design philosophy or was it just broken before?

I don't know which is best, but another option would be to meet half way by removing 1-2 DC from both EA and the new Magister. Perhaps Wizards needs the perk, but be careful with adding even more DC in the upcoming Palemaster pass.

[ChadB123]

everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population

While there will likely be a surge in wizard population due to the upcoming Palemaster and Magister pass (and I welcome that), "everbody playing a DC caster will now be in Magister," is completely false. My alt is a FVS, and I will be remaining in EA simply for the Rebuke Foe ability. However, other classes will still be incentivized for EA because of wings, self healing, and still +3 DC in the core.

Not all EDs are meant to be the same. If so, start demanding that Magister gets defensive goodies like a heal SLA and wings.

EA is a great destiny and shouldn't be touched, except for Reborn, of course.

[karatemack]

The current changes to Magister are in response to EA's current position as a much stronger Destiny for DC casters, and the new numbers are balanced with EA's current potential in mind.

Should EA keep being a better DC casting tree than Magister? How much better?

Once the current changes are implemented, Magister will be far superior as a DC casting destiny. It already reduces target saves (while casting, EA has an active ability) and reduces spell cooldowns which made it arguably "better" now depending on where your toon is on the DC/Spell Pen spectrum.

The problem with EA is there is no "draw" really once these changes are implemented. I don't disagree (again) that Reborn should be changed, but hate that it's happening without fixing EA at the same time.

The entire Judgment -> Lay to Rest -> Judge the Many line has zero appeal for those who actually invest in turning. The damage is laughable due to mob hp numbers vs the damage it deals. The idea of stacking an effect against multiple things at once is a great concept, but the payoff just isn't effective in high-level content. This line is too costly for too little gain in the end. Personally, I would love to see this line instead changed to apply stacking debuffs on creatures affected by Command/Greater Command. (IE: blinded, confused, charmed) There are many stacking buffs/debuffs when turning in the cleric domains, and applying an effect based on the command spells opens the abilities of EA up for FVS as well as Cleric.

The problem with Light Spell SLAs isn't their base spell damage numbers. You can boost light spell damage a great deal, or can utilize domains (for Clerics) to utilize alternate spell powers which opens a ton of build variety choices. The issue with Light Spells all-around is their crit damage. There is nothing to compare to the Master of Knowledge feat for divine casters. This makes a world of difference when comparing highest arcane to highest divine damage numbers. (not to mention that many arcane spells have multiple chances to crit when cast) Providing a Master of Wisdom feat for divine casters would make the light spells in this tree more attractive. But I would still also love to see the save from the Soundburst SLA removed (or changed to WILL save) and perhaps add a divine equivalent of magic missile using light (IE: shards of light) instead of force damage.

Also, thanks for the responses Steel.

[kain741]

Steelstar: If I recall correctly, all DC classes (e.g. Wiz,Wlk, Sorc, Bard, Cleric) reached about the same DCs by end-game through the sum of their trees + EDs, where Wis/Cha went EA. Wizards were ahead of the rest in heroic, but EA let the others catch up. I assumed this was intentional. Wizards will now be ahead by ~3 DC, and everybody playing a DC caster (except maybe poor clerics) will now be in Magister (and there will certainly be a surge in the wizard population).

Is this a change of design philosophy or was it just broken before?

I don't know which is best, but another option would be to meet half way by removing 1-2 DC from both EA and the new Magister. Perhaps Wizards needs the perk, but be careful with adding even more DC in the upcoming Palemaster pass.

That is incorrect. PMs have always been up by a couple DCs.

[Arkat]

You are empowering already over-performing style, instakill spells.

When's the last time you tried to FoD a mob in Sharn content on Elite or better?

That 105 DC is no longer very good, is it? In fact it kinda sucks.

115-120+ is the new DC target to hit these days.

The changes to the Magister tree will allow PMs and such to keep up.

[janave]

When's the last time you tried to FoD a mob in Sharn content on Elite or better?

That 105 DC is no longer very good, is it? In fact it kinda sucks.

115-120+ is the new DC target to hit these days.

The changes to the Magister tree will allow PMs and such to keep up.

I have seen evo specces Sorcs FoD in R10 sharn welcome, few times tho. Probably behind a good 6-10. I have landed DC98 CoDs on R6, it requires targeting weak saves, but far from "useless".

Keep up? come on. Necro casters practically dominate high reaper runs.

[Arkat]

I have seen evo specces Sorcs FoD in R10 sharn welcome, few times tho. Probably behind a good 6-10. I have landed DC98 CoDs on R6, it requires targeting weak saves, but far from "useless".

Keep up? come on. Necro casters practically dominate high reaper runs.

FORT saves are almost always one of the mobs strong saves (Drow Wizards, etc. are notable exceptions). PMs are adept at using spells from the Necromancy school, yes? And Necromancy spells almost always require a Fortitude save. Can't think of one that doesn't, actually.

PMs, unless they make REAL efforts to branch out (and by that I mean work to acquire the equipment and past lives to jack up the appropriate DCs) to the Enchantment School (Will saves) or Evocation School (Reflex saves), are at a distinct disadvantage.

One thing that really does help is casting Energy Drain before casting the FoD, though. That's what we had to do in ToD when the monsters' saves were adjusted upward way back when.

[janave]

FORT saves are almost always one of the mobs strong saves (Drow Wizards, etc. are notable exceptions). PMs are adept at using spells from the Necromancy school, yes? And Necromancy spells almost always require a Fortitude save. Can't think of one that doesn't, actually.

PMs, unless they make REAL efforts to branch out (and by that I mean work to acquire the equipment and past lives to jack up the appropriate DCs) to the Enchantment School (Will saves) or Evocation School (Reflex saves), are at a distinct disadvantage.

One thing that really does help is casting Energy Drain before casting the FoD, though. That's what we had to do in ToD when the monsters' saves were adjusted upward way back when.

We used to run mobs thru Cloud Kills and Death Symbols, followed by a Necrotic Ray + Energy Drain Combo (single target overkill) or CoD+Wail (multi target), most stuff was easy kill in the hardest instances (with first life DCs...)

There are also party based debuffs and temp boosts.. so I think the expectation to auto shot brutes on r10 with FoD regardless of investment is wrong.

Also, nerf Enlarge...

[catfumaster]

The caster meta as a whole is plagued with issues atm. One of the big ones is that there is no specialization of school types. Class enhancements are all but nominal changes. DC items and most past life work are generic and affect all schools. This leaves the real discernible difference in end game DC's to class enhancements and destinies; which are still only nominal in some cases. Nine more generic increase to DC closes this gap relatively even more. As is stands no one plays an enchant specialized caster except for bards; because they have no other options; when a nerco caster still has no fail DC's on both instakills and cc.

Demanding what essentially amounts to a no fail DC for any spell school is like a melee wanting to only roll 20's on attacks. The consideration for spell DC balance should always start with answering the question, "How reliable should this be?" Spells should and do exist on two continua: one for reliability, one for frequency. Then depending on how far down the continuum to towards "always" you answer you need to adjust the frequency of use in the opposite direction. Currently one caster can obliterate mobs at an alarming rate, not to mention a group of casters.

Short of a massive overhaul of DC effects in all aspects of the game the best option to curb the dominance of end game casters is to move down the frequency continuum significantly. A major increase to instakill spell cooldowns and even possibly and increase in spell point cost.

[LurkingVeteran]

That is incorrect. PMs have always been up by a couple DCs.

I said about "about the same", I don't think it was more than 1-2 DC? With these changes, they will be 3 DC further ahead. If that is reasonable or not I don't know, I just pointed out an unstated side effect of the changes.

[Ballrus]

Divine Crusader:
This is also a Pretty Good tree in its current form, but lacks a little scaling and punch. In adding punch, we wanted to give some solid bonuses for Divine characters in here; you can get access to some alternative Favored Weapons, and then really make them shine if you've got a lot of Divine levels. We think Warpriests and War Souls will shine in here, along with Paladins once KOTC gets revamped later this year.

• Castigation's damage now works on bosses as listed
• Castigation now grants its listed Melee Power
• No Regret now grants its listed Melee Power
• Strike Down's tooltip now correctly says it deals Light damage
• Strike Down's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power
• Confront Any Foe now adds +3[w]
• Confront Any Foe's Light damage now scales with 300% Melee Power
• Smite the Wicked's Light damage is now 100 against Evil creatures and 100 against Undead creatures. Evil Undead creatures take both.
• Smite the Wicked's Light damage now scales with 200% Melee Power.
• Smite the Wicked now destroys Undead and Evil Outsiders under 1500 HP on a Vorpal.
• Stand and be Judged now has a DC of 10+Wisdom Modifier+Character Level+Stunning Bonuses (We also made it faster & more reliable to cast a few Updates ago)
• Celestial Bombardment now only has 1 rank, that does what the old Rank 3 did.
• Celestial Bombardment now costs 20SP.
• Celestial Bombardment now takes the Enlarge, Maximize, Empower, Intensify, Embolden, and Quicken Metamagics.
• Celestial Bombardment is now significantly quicker to cast.
• Moved Celestial Champion one spot left, to the middle of T5, it just feels better there.
• Celestial Champion's Doublestrike and Doubleshot are now Sacred-typed.
• NEW: T4: The Book of War: (Multiselector): Pick one of the following to gain as a Favored Weapon: Longsword, Longbow, Morningstar, Greatsword (1 Rank, 1AP)
• NEW: T6: The Book of War: Wrath of the Divine: While wielding a Favored Weapon in your Main Hand, you gain +1 to Hit and Damage for every 2 Religious Lore Feats you have with all equipped weapons and shields. (1 Rank, 1AP)

• Aura of Purification apply in only one enemy.
• Celestial Champion granting only 1% doublestrike, regardless stacks (max 10 stacks).
• No Remorse heal apply only in one ally.
• Strike Down stops movement.

[Steelstar]

• Aura of Purification apply in only one enemy.
• Celestial Champion granting only 1% doublestrike, regardless stacks (max 10 stacks).
• No Remorse heal apply only in one ally.
• Strike Down stops movement.

We've got fixes to all of those coming, with the possible exception of No Remorse (I'll try to take a look at that one before Lama).

[Ballrus]

We've got fixes to all of those coming, with the possible exception of No Remorse (I'll try to take a look at that one before Lama).

Really Rad!!
Thanks in advance.

Ps. In No Remorse: if change it to an effect like Ameliorating Strike (from war priest)?
Could be 1d3 heal per char lvl (max lvl 30) and 1d6 if already have Ameliorathing Strike from other source.

Edit. Not game breaking or op, but help hybrids.