2019 ED Pass: Martial Sphere

[QuantumFX]

Blitz should be a trance effect.

[Avocado]

By a certain player with a certain build and certain equipment. None of what that guy used was EiN.

EiN was not the problem.

The Devs addressed what that guy was taking advantage of and now Monks are no longer the kings of DPS. As another user posted earlier in the thread, Monks aren't even in the Top 5 anymore.

Maybe the changes, in general, will increase DPS a bit but it will be at the cost of the coolest (in concept) ability in the game.

I will be very sad if all the proposed EiN changes go through.

Monks shouldnt be top dps, not sure why you think that. Monks were always about there ability to cc with stunning fist prior to enhancement passes. They still get access to the most amount of cc abilities, which is the way it should be. There ability to basically get everything but really high hp and mrr means they are just melee kings.

That being said, the nerf to EIN doesn't affect me but I will assume its similar to the nerf of tree builds. It takes what is rather unique ability and trashes it to be not worth the ap cost. Rounding up 50 mobs and using EIN isnt broken, its strategy and fun. So much for "we want to make the game more fun," from the devs.

[Grailhawk]

This is a comparison of the exclusive things in the two destinies because of Twists the exclusive things in a destiny are the most important and the once that dictate how good the destiny is.

Dreadnought	Shadowdancer	"Winner"
+88 Melee Power	+60 Melee Power	Wash or Dreadnought (do to annoying Blitz mechanics)
+82 Ranged Power	+24 Ranged Power	Dreadnought
+5 Damage (Advancing Blows)	+3d6 Sneak Attack (Core 1-3)	Shadowdancer
+1[w] & 15% Helpless Damage (Combat Brute)	+3d6 Sneak Attack, Shadow Mastery, +3% DS with Light Weapons	Wash
+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	+1 Crit Multiplier 19-20	Wash
Action Hero	Dark Imbuement + Shadow Training	Dreadnought
+60 HP	+3% Dodge & -20% Threat	Wash or Shadowdancer (threat reduction is getting important)
+30 PRR or 50% Dodge	Shadow Form	Wash or Dreadnought (do to due to Light Vulnerability)
Pulverizer or Headman's Chop	Shadow Manipulation, Executioner's Strike/Shot, or Consume	Meh, Too Different
Unmoveable	Sealed Soul	Shadowdancer
Unstoppable & Thick Skinned	Evasion	Wash

So Dreadnought has more defense then Shadowdancer thanks mostly to Thick Skinned but Unstoppable is good too, could counter Think Skinned with Meld but since Meld can be twisted Dreadnought can have both making it better.
EDIT forgot that Shadowdancer give Evasion if you don't have it some other way this is big if you do already have it then the above sentence is still true ...

Damage wise they seam really close for melee but not close at all for Ranged.

Dark Imbuement and Shadow Training II don't come close to Action Hero, really need to do something to Dark Imbuement. Dark Imbuement needs to be a big burst something that starts getting close to Fury levels. I also think it should have a 0 threat generation component for the 30s its up and grant Improved Invisibility for 30 seconds after it expires.

Also think of increasing the Doublestrike in Shadow Training IV and remove the weapon restriction the place for weapons restrictions is class trees not Epic Destinies, and give an appropriate amount of Doubleshot as well.

This is getting close but needs just a bit more to get people to see is as an alternative to Dreadnought.

[lyrecono]

This is a comparison of the exclusive things in the two destinies because of Twists the exclusive things in a destiny are the most important and the once that dictate how good the destiny is.
[table]


So Dreadnought has more defense then Shadowdancer thanks mostly to Thick Skinned but Unstoppable is good too, could counter Think Skinned with Meld but since Meld can be twisted Dreadnought can have both making it better.

Damage wise they seam really close for melee but not close at all for Ranged.

Dark Imbuement and Shadow Training II don't come close to Action Hero, really need to do something to Dark Imbuement. Dark Imbuement needs to be a big burst something that starts getting close to Fury levels. I also think it should have a 0 threat generation component for the 30s its up and grant Improved Invisibility for 30 seconds after it expires.

Also think of increasing the Doublestrike in Shadow Training IV and remove the weapon restriction the place for weapons restrictions is class trees not Epic Destinies, and give an appropriate amount of Doubleshot as well.

This is getting close but needs just a bit more to get people to see is as an alternative to Dreadnought.

nice table, could you do one with fury of the wild in there? does it come close?

[Grailhawk]

nice table, could you do one with fury of the wild in there? does it come close?

I plan to but it may not be till Monday

[edgarallanpoe]

Monks shouldnt be top dps, not sure why you think that. Monks were always about there ability to cc with stunning fist prior to enhancement passes. They still get access to the most amount of cc abilities, which is the way it should be. There ability to basically get everything but really high hp and mrr means they are just melee kings.

That being said, the nerf to EIN doesn't affect me but I will assume its similar to the nerf of tree builds. It takes what is rather unique ability and trashes it to be not worth the ap cost. Rounding up 50 mobs and using EIN isnt broken, its strategy and fun. So much for "we want to make the game more fun," from the devs.

Because a lot of us are old school D&D PnP players and a properly played monk, once you got him through the lower levels, was completely OP.

[lyrecono]

I plan to but it may not be till Monday

awesome, thanks!

[SirValentine]

Grandmaster of Flowers
Everything is Nothing now...hits a maximum of 4 enemies.

If you're nerfing it that hard, you need to also rename it to, "A Few things are Nothing"

Shadowdancer
It had a lot of cool things in it that were nearly impossible to use, either because DC calculations were broken or because you needed Shadow Charges, which were hard to get and even harder to keep. Those are gone now.

Good, I might actually look at them then. I have no idea if they were cool or not; I never even tried to use them, because the charge system looked way too annoying.

[Strambotica]

Ideally, each class doesn't actually have "their own ED" - but each playstyle has several to choose from. I worry that the class-restrictive versions of the current EDs are really inhibiting build freedom more than anything. I think the best way forward is to try and make each ED mechanically unique and competitive within the archetype they represent without pinning them to a specific class. That being said, you (the royal you, aka the players) may disagree, and I'm kinda interested in everyone's opinion here.

About this… you want to open ED for many builds, and its ok. But there is many that atm don’t have much choices… and are orphan on ED. For example:
· Fey Warlock and Spellsinger Bard, o most nothing to improve sonic spellpower or some spell to deal a big damage on something. And if you want DC, now you have to go to Magister :C bored.
· Intelligence based DPS ranged types. LD and Shiradi don’t have Intelligence Stats on those ED, can try to supply with gear, but is just not the same.
· Caster’s Druids. All DC is in Magister, all nucker on Draconic, but no Wisdom Stats on those ED
· O most forgot: EK Wizards… those rare melee ones. Don’t have Intelligence Stats in melee ED

The first time that I saw the “ED Pass” was so happy… but after read too much in forums, now I’m worried that it end it bad again, and will pass years before you all try to fix them again, and o most hopeless from see any new ED any time soon. we have ‘new’ enhancement trees to diversify builds, but no ED to support them.
- And many nerf… because some are using all wrong (or… how many people actually solo a raid with Reborn?.. if you think is an exploit, and know who he is… you could easily warn him or ban him. (have seen ban for less)

Any way… thanks for the effort and feedback, is a lot of work.

PD: I don’t play melees (except for Intelligence based rogue assassin too much fun), and my monk life was a +20 heart, but agree that EIN with only hits a máximum of 4 enemies is terrible, At least 8? ignoring red names and those immune?
And sorry for my bad english ^^

[Robbenklopper]

Hello! This is an early look at the Epic Destiny Pass currently slated for Update 43.

...
[*]Everything is Nothing moves to a 3 minute cooldown, no longer requires charging.

• Everything is Nothing now has a smaller detect (double the size of Drifting Lotus, but still smaller than its existing version), and hits a maximum of 4 enemies. This is for both balance and performance reasons, as it significantly taxes the game on use & will now be used more frequently.

The CD of 3 is nice, the smaller AOE acceptable, the 4 enemies questionable, but it´s still unclarified to me what a realistic DC with stacking effects vs what save will be. While a stunning DC of 106 vs. fortitude in sharn is useless, where do we go for EiN and how? It needs to be reachable for an Epic Momentum, while e.g. Blitz is an Epic permanency that doesn´t require anything to trigger.

[Nickodeamous]

Monks were always about there ability to cc with stunning fist prior to enhancement passes. They still get access to the most amount of cc abilities, which is the way it should be.

I agree with this but 50% of the game is still undead, and the only thing that stuns these is jade. Which has a timer. Stunning fist doesnt work, QP doesnt work, etc. The tree should grant some bonus or something that lets you hit undead with stunning fist. The only thing that works is EiN. I love the fun abilities that make monk unique. Just wanted to add some additional color to this comment.

[Noircere]

The CD of 3 is nice, the smaller AOE acceptable, the 4 enemies questionable, but it´s still unclarified to me what a realistic DC with stacking effects vs what save will be. While a stunning DC of 106 vs. fortitude in sharn is useless, where do we go for EiN and how? It needs to be reachable for an Epic Momentum, while e.g. Blitz is an Epic permanency that doesn´t require anything to trigger.

With heavy investment, my EiN works 95% on live. They're buffing the DC by letting it add stunning gear, so usable DCs should be pretty easy to reach.

[Ballrus]

Any chance to change LD Legendary Tactics bonuses to 3/6/9?

Thanks in advance.

[kelavas]

Shadowdancer

Shadow Training II is granting:
The full movement speed while sneaking.
+5 Attack Bonus to hit with Sneak Attacks.
+2 Sneak Attack Dice

Shadow Training II is not grating:
+3 Hide
+3 Move Silently

[Grailhawk]

Action Hero	Dark Imbuement + Shadow Training	Dreadnought

Dark Imbuement and Shadow Training II don't come close to Action Hero, really need to do something to Dark Imbuement. Dark Imbuement needs to be a big burst something that starts getting close to Fury levels. I also think it should have a 0 threat generation component for the 30s its up and grant Improved Invisibility for 30 seconds after it expires.

An idea for Dark Imbuement sup it up so that its in the ball park of A Thousand Cuts.

ATC right now is 30 MP and DS for 15 out of 90 seconds if we double the up time we can keep it in balance by doubling the cooldown getting us 30 MP/DS for 30/180 seconds that could also be 10 MP/DS for 30/60 seconds or 50 MP/DS for 30/300 seconds since this is an epic ability add 5d6 Sneak Attack and no threat is generated while this ability is active.

So to right it out
Dark Imbuement: Add 50 Melee Power, 50% Doublestrike, and 5d6 Sneak Attack for the next 30 Seconds (5 min cooldown) while this ability is active you do not generate any threat.

Further thought has me thinking DS gets capped a lot of the time so a 25/25 DS/ODS might be good but that has issue for THF (Acrobats for instance) also a Ranged version that has appropriate Dobuleshot and RP is a good idea.

[SirValentine]

To be pretty blunt, being a developer means we've got much better methods of measuring client strain than a player would. DDO is pretty complex, and sometimes players draw totally reasonable conclusions from an incomplete set of data.

To be pretty blunt, as a player I don't care at all about some under-the-hood "client strain". The lag I actually care about is the lag I actually experience first-hand: freezes, stuttering, frame rate reduction, etc.. If none of those are happening, why would I care about "client strain"? When those things are happening, why would it be any consolation to me that there isn't "client strain"?

[Arkat]

Monks shouldnt be top dps, not sure why you think that.

Who said I did?

[edgarallanpoe]

I don't think I've read a thread in recent memory more full of ignorance and arrogance. The fact that some of you are dismissing and being rude to a developer who is trying to inform you is, quite frankly, embarrassing.

[ginryuu2]

First of all, just wanted to thank the Devs for giving us so much info on an update we as a community have been looking for/forward to for a while.
From what I've read from the comments here, as well as casual talking in game, seems like people mostly like a lot of these early changes with some gripes over some specific issues, ein and certain shadowdancer issues. I have to say that when i was reading the notes for the first time I was thinking 'Wow this is all great I love these changes' up until EIN. EIN I believe really captured the feeling of 'Epic Moment' in a way few if any of the other t6's ever have. That being said, EIN was so strong originally because a monk had to give up a lot of dps and power to go 'wisdom monk' in order to achieve even somewhat useful EIN's. Nowadays with stuff like the falconry tree, upcoming bonuses to tactics for the ED, and stat inflation, wisdom monk is no longer a goofy tradeoff of major power for a showy 'ult', it is a respectable version of dps monk on its own.
Anyway, the main purpose of my post is to ask an open-ended question to Devs and players about the Epic Destiny Archetypes: What should they be going forward? For instance, Legendary Dreadnought is all about emphasizing damage in the thick of the fight, with the mass majority of the tree improving dps and giving some tankiness as well, though clearly more dps. Shiradi has been largely about 'Death from 1000 cuts, turned into magical explosions for even more cuts' which seems basically self evident. Tank ED emphasizes tankiness, Exalted Angel emphasizes light damage and healing, with some improvement to general spellcasting.
The reason I ask this question is because if there isn't going to be a 'Monk epic Destiny' and instead an archetype that presumably goes along with the average monk's playstyle, what is that? thus far the tree gives great no-fail save mechanics, a short aoe knockdown, a very fun temporary aoe blind/defense buff, and a planned possible 4-creature instakill or at the very least low number instakill. This all seems interesting, but doesn't give me much to go on as an identity or archetype. It sort of suggests a skirmishing type playstyle, going in with a knockdown and aoe blind/defense buff to attack at will for a short duration before ducking out. However, it gives some relatively small defense-oriented moves, but no real offensive moves such as an AOE blast with a high-cd to 'punish' staying in, or something along those lines.
Would anyone have any thoughts about this for the 'GMOF' ED in particular? Because as it stands, an archetype with no real identity and no satisfying, flashy, overpowered move like the current EIN will fall flat with me, and many others I believe.

[MaeveTuohy]

I don't think I've read a thread in recent memory more full of ignorance and arrogance. The fact that some of you are dismissing and being rude to a developer who is trying to inform you is, quite frankly, embarrassing.

Interesting, because I assess the developer comments in much the same way. And one group is being paid, the other is the customer.