2019 ED Pass: Martial Sphere

[Tarinia]

Sadly, no, pressing the button EiN actually just causes lag





t.

EIN was the only cool monk only T6 experience- after your change its just another instant death effect, where DC-casters are mostly better in every situation.
It should not be so hard for a experienced DEVteam to fight the lag of 20 monsters in one room with 6 characters because of EIN. You are also able to provide a solution in raids like the endfight of legendary shroud where waves of monsters coming from every side. Instead your only solution is to nerf this ability down to just another death effect even less effective then wail of the banshee (available at Lv17) or implosion (also available at Lv17).
I understand, that the charging is somewhat clonky but much much better if you have a fantastic epic moment result instead of just another death effect.
For me the destiny will derange from a fantastic epic moment to just another death effect and all your other arguments will not change that endresult, sorry.
Best regards
Tarinia

[Tarinia]

EIN was the only cool monk only T6 experience- after your change its just another instant death effect, where DC-casters are mostly better in every situation.
It should not be so hard for a experienced DEVteam to fight the lag of 20 monsters in one room with 6 characters because of EIN. You are also able to provide a solution in raids like the endfight of legendary shroud where waves of monsters coming from every side. Instead your only solution is to nerf this ability down to just another death effect even less effective then wail of the banshee (available at Lv17) or implosion (also available at Lv17).
I understand, that the charging is somewhat clonky but much much better if you have a fantastic epic moment result instead of just another death effect.
For me the destiny will derange from a fantastic epic moment to just another death effect and all your other arguments will not change that endresult, sorry.
Best regards
Tarinia

I will elaborate- why not modify EIN to killing monsters in 4 zones around the char shortly one after another- you have only 1/4 or less of the area and probably lag and the effect will be the same.
You can even do some cool graphic effect like a black hole running around the area... lots of possibilities to lessen the lag without taking the fantastic effect from the destiny.

Best regards
Tarinia

[ironmaiden-br]

I would like to know why everytime in the last 4 years you guys think about fixing something Always end up in a huge nerf to Monks?

Why the hate?

Why destroy EIN and make it a bad frog???

[Steelstar]

I would like to know why everytime in the last 4 years you guys think about fixing something Always end up in a huge nerf to Monks?

Why the hate?

Why destroy EIN and make it a bad frog???

There's no hate. We're fixing things that need to be fixed. Monks were objectively overtuned for years. This unfortunately means in the course of balancing the game, we've had to do more to them than we've needed to classes that weren't objectively overtuned for years.

We like Monks. My main's still a Monk. Liking or not liking a class has nothing to do with balance here. I'd nerf my main into the ground if it brought overall better game balance (and have done so many times).

[lyrecono]

There's no hate. We're fixing things that need to be fixed. Monks were objectively overtuned for years. This unfortunately means in the course of balancing the game, we've had to do more to them than we've needed to classes that weren't objectively overtuned for years.

We like Monks. My main's still a Monk. Liking or not liking a class has nothing to do with balance here. I'd nerf my main into the ground if it brought overall better game balance.

Any news on power attack (being virtually useless compared to presision) or,
2hf, that you were working on?

[Recared]

It's really more "The fact that A is black is not diminished by the fact that B is also black".

It's in specific regard to arguments like "You can't possibly be thinking of fixing Warpriest bugs while Paladins are still not good." Yes we can, we acknowledge that both are needed changes and are fixing them in the order we're fixing them for reasons.

Both "Some of the basic styles need updating" and "Epic Destinies need updating" are true things - At the moment, we're updating Destinies, and the fact that Destiny changes were necessary is not diminished by the fact that another necessary change, basic style adjustments, have not happened yet.

Completely agree with the analysis, and great work in doing that precisely

So happy about the direction of game and effort put!!

[whoolsey]

There's no hate. We're fixing things that need to be fixed. Monks were objectively overtuned for years. This unfortunately means in the course of balancing the game, we've had to do more to them than we've needed to classes that weren't objectively overtuned for years.

We like Monks. My main's still a Monk. Liking or not liking a class has nothing to do with balance here. I'd nerf my main into the ground if it brought overall better game balance (and have done so many times).

Any news on power attack (being virtually useless compared to presision) or,
2hf, that you were working on?

What he said.

Steel?
Many of the changes in fury are going to be an issue, we would like to know what the plans are for 2hf.
With the changes in ld, the only class that wil use PA is barb and it's leagues behind precision.

[Steelstar]

What he said.

Steel?
Many of the changes in fury are going to be an issue, we would like to know what the plans are for 2hf.
With the changes in ld, the only class that wil use PA is barb and it's leagues behind precision.

Like we've already said more than once in these threads, we'll have more info about THF down the line.

[Paisheng]

There's no hate. We're fixing things that need to be fixed. Monks were objectively overtuned for years. This unfortunately means in the course of balancing the game, we've had to do more to them than we've needed to classes that weren't objectively overtuned for years.

We like Monks. My main's still a Monk. Liking or not liking a class has nothing to do with balance here. I'd nerf my main into the ground if it brought overall better game balance (and have done so many times).

I don't really think you hate monks, nor any other dev. It's more of a question why are monks still being nerfed when players are not finding them OP anymore in DPS or even with EiN?

*The major reason EiN is being changed according to earlier Dev posts is that it creates poor performance. What no one is answering though brought up by several is: why not completely rewrite the script on EiN so that it performs like one of the mass death spells that casters have? If that is a lengthy procedure just borrow the script for a while from one of those spells and rename it EiN until you can rewrite it. Clearly those mass death effects are not causing poor performance or you would be nerfing them as well.

*The secondary implied reason as inferred from this post and earlier ones is that monks are overpowered with EiN. While it is a grand epic moment (and thus the consternation of it being whacked to less than a heroic death spell) it is not OP. Many of the mobs save, especially anything with orange and up. The timer was such that it could only be used once or twice in most quests and it took some effort and precision to prepare and use it at the right time. It could be a party saving moment, but it's rarity of use and its timer made it what it should be: a tier 6 destiny display of being Grandmaster of Flowers. Other destinies like Avatar and Blitz have their equal glory during their performance.

[J1NG]

Hmm, I don't think this one exists anymore. Might have been removed during their Monk attack "improvements".

Darn it, I knew I wasn't dreaming up things when I never saw this attack again. And when I dragged a copy of my main over to Lamannia and butchered them to pick up every possible "attack" there and still couldn't find it, I had a sinking feeling it might have been removed/lost/not implemented.

Devs, I want this animation back somehow. There isn't enough "leaping in the air" style of animation available to choreograph a good fight scene. And since you're all doing stuff to change things, might as well put that animation back in right?

J1NG

[J1NG]

There's no hate. We're fixing things that need to be fixed. Monks were objectively overtuned for years. This unfortunately means in the course of balancing the game, we've had to do more to them than we've needed to classes that weren't objectively overtuned for years.

We like Monks. My main's still a Monk. Liking or not liking a class has nothing to do with balance here. I'd nerf my main into the ground if it brought overall better game balance (and have done so many times).

And yet...

I don't see Magister getting a DC check just to see if they can get the bonus they are getting for +11 total extra DC each time they want it.
I don't see Legendary Dreadnaught getting a DC check just to see if they can get the Melee and PRR bonus they get each time they activate it and for each time they swing.
etc, etc.

You placed a DC on EiN. Shortly after you inflated ALL the saves of ALL the enmies and made it impossible to land it successfully. And after a long while, introduced MANY enemies that simply ignored it and took up a target spot for it (through immunities like Boss imunities, or actions like phasing via virtue of being spectral).

Now you want to change it so its limited to 4 targets AND has a DC check AND you can't select your targets in the AOE AND you can't affect everything in that AOE with Immunity (or actions that grant immunity).

Difference much between that and Blitz? Where you just click and go?

That's why the proposed EiN changes is terrible. And why I suggested that in order to make it hold some type of parity back with its current Live self in usefulness, is to make some type of effect that will on a failed save, ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING, if you can't Insta-remove something, reduce its HP to zero. So that working on increasing DC's is not a waste, because even if you had a DC of 9001, currently, in the majority of uses in play, it will hardly hit anything "consistently". And on a failed save, do only half of that HP damage, so that it is recognised as being THE Epic Moment of GMoF. And not just "meh, another attack out there".

J1NG

[whoolsey]

What he said.

Steel?
Many of the changes in fury are going to be an issue, we would like to know what the plans are for 2hf.
With the changes in ld, the only class that wil use PA is barb and it's leagues behind precision.

Like we've already said more than once in these threads, we'll have more info about THF down the line.

Thanks, some threads grew8+ pages, in a matter of hours. I must have missed some of that.
Since the issues of 2hf and power attack are such a hot topic, maybe you could open up a completely new thread where we can give you feedback on it?
Some people are realy pashionate about this topic and might ger a bit antsy and hot under the collar talking about swinging large, 2handed objects .... Must be a barb thing XD

We just want some dev feedback, some "read the comment" kind of reaction on the topic.

[btolson]

In an effort to make Power Attack more relevant, maybe change Improved Power Attack to:

Improved Power Attack: You deal an extra 10% damage* with weapons


*multiplicative bonus per the warchanter aura and old damage action boosts, not MP

Actually, maybe this should become base functionality to better compare against precision's two %-based effects which scale very well into higher levels.

[Xgya]

Like we've already said more than once in these threads, we'll have more info about THF down the line.

You, sir, are a paragon of patience. Thanks for keeping up with all of this, and explaining multiple times for people not ready to read a full thread (or the dev tracker)

Seriously though, anything that'll veer us off LD because losing something from LD will seem worth it to gain more from another tree.
If at al possible, I'd like it if Action Hero became a T4 ability instead of a core. Being able to twist it would mean a lot to builds that rely on haste boosts or Fusilade to get the job done.

[Lynnabel]

You, sir, are a paragon of patience. Thanks for keeping up with all of this, and explaining multiple times for people not ready to read a full thread (or the dev tracker)

Seriously though, anything that'll veer us off LD because losing something from LD will seem worth it to gain more from another tree.
If at al possible, I'd like it if Action Hero became a T4 ability instead of a core. Being able to twist it would mean a lot to builds that rely on haste boosts or Fusilade to get the job done.

We are much more likely to destroy that ability than make it more accessible.

[lyrecono]

We are much more likely to destroy that ability than make it more accessible.

[IMG]
....nm, insert monkeys paw picture here

[Steelstar]

You, sir, are a paragon of patience. Thanks for keeping up with all of this, and explaining multiple times for people not ready to read a full thread (or the dev tracker)

Seriously though, anything that'll veer us off LD because losing something from LD will seem worth it to gain more from another tree.
If at al possible, I'd like it if Action Hero became a T4 ability instead of a core. Being able to twist it would mean a lot to builds that rely on haste boosts or Fusilade to get the job done.

We are much more likely to destroy that ability than make it more accessible.

Thanks for the complement! It is appreciated. There are a lot of moving parts in this pass, & we're working on a whole separate feature while the feedback for this pass comes in.

But yeah; Lynnabel's post is essentially correct. While we don't have any plans to nerf Action Hero right now, I can safely say that we do not ever intend to make it twistable.

[edgarallanpoe]

Thanks for the complement! It is appreciated. There are a lot of moving parts in this pass, & we're working on a whole separate feature while the feedback for this pass comes in.

But yeah; Lynnabel's post is essentially correct. While we don't have any plans to nerf Action Hero right now, I can safely say that we do not ever intend to make it twistable.

I'll second what the previous posters have said...well done and thank you for being so patient and transparent with us.

You guys are spot on when it comes to action hero, it should never be twistable...ever. I'm hoping you make the RP in Shiradi high enough to offset this boost so I can run in a ranged focused destiny on my ranged characters. Running in LD always felt wrong to me but it was just too good to pass up.

[Ballrus]

We are much more likely to destroy that ability than make it more accessible.

Or make it a multi selector with blitz: prr/mrr, dodge (no dodge cap) or shorter cooldown on action boosts. (Keep the mp/rp)

And something rad in core 2.

[Pilgrim1]

Why do people keep comparing Lumping avatar of nature with real destiny capstones? It is one of the worst abilities out their.