Light Armor Option for Sharn Caster Sets

[Zretch]

I think it's more like "nah that's a rock bro why do you want me to waste my divine awesomeness on it?" And like fire heals Iron Golems, but your deity wouldn't throw fire at one if you asked for healing? How about a Cure Moderate Wounds targeted at one? Would that be an AoE fire effect that damages party members?

Zombies/Toasters/Elementals etc all gain a bunch of perks, at the cost of some conveniences. It's game balance as well as being reasonable. Gives you the option of choosing to be more easily healable as a fleshy or more effective at casting as an undead, instead of full benefits of both (as well as your Undead Auras etc).

I find your lack of faith in Silvanus disturbing....*makes pinching motions with his fingers*

Not sure how Iron Golems got into the discussion, players can't be Iron Golems. And players can't really be undead either, it's a shroud or form, not actual undeath (which can't be toggled on and off for 40 sp). The perks are offset by taking 200-300% more damage from light spells. The healing restrictions were flavor, that is, until Reaper mode came along. Don't want to hear about how you don't balance the game for reaper. Reaper is part of the game, balance the game.

[Zretch]

What? I feel like you missed the basics of RPG games in general. You know that elemental wheel that got very complex in pokemon?( nearly as complex as DDO =p). That what happens here and most rpg games. The healing is the Positive type one that undeads are weak against. Gods arent worried if the "healed target" is a follower, a living being a rock or a undead. He will just trow some positve energy as the caster requested. The issue is not in the god side but the undead weakness. The poison of one can be the remedy of others . Also if deities carried about the target not the healer, being an undead is a defiance to most deities even those not related to life, healing and undead hunting. Thats one of reasons every cleric got turn undead. Few deities favors undead and those are usually enemies of the rest.(FR wise).

If your healing spells does nothing to your allied undead target is actually the effect of "no friendly fire" rules we got on DDO. It should kill him .

Also, the natural healing process is actually an destruction process for the undead. It needs to achieve death and than life to start healing by common ways. Its totally the oposite.

Really, you're going to pull out Pokemon on me?

EverQuest, necromancers can turn into both skeletons and wraiths. In both forms they can be fully healed by divine casters using standard heal spells. Their pets, which are skeletons and wraiths also can be fully healed by divine casters using standard heal spells.
Dark Age of Camelot, Cabalists can summon skeletal pets which can be fully healed by standard spells. Necromancers, who summon a skeletal pet to inhabit (actively control), can be fully healed by standard spells.
Those are just two of the earliest MMORPGs that allowed players to either take undead form or control undead as pets.

I'm not sure I've run into a game where a class can make itself so completely immune to the skills and abilities of its teammates as this game. Torches and pitchforks were branded when devs made it less convenient for meleers to cast scroll heals on others, but requiring touch range casting with facing mechanics that burn a spell slot that would otherwise never be used is A-OK?

Anyway, this was off topic. Yes, give me a light armor and medium armor alternative for Esoteric Initiate! Thanks!

[DaviMOC]

Really, you're going to pull out Pokemon on me?

this

Anyway, this was off topic. Yes, give me a light armor and medium armor alternative for Esoteric Initiate! Thanks!

Its easy to understand why you were requesting such features now. lol . Lets ignore D&D and DDO game mechanics and emulate some other mmo that may have its healing foundations very different from DDO. Because you want it =).

Yes, please the alternatives for Esoteric Initiate.

[Whisper1]

Sorcs can use flamecleansed set. That's not really a reason.

Flamecleansed is only good for fire sorcs. Other 3 savant lines are left behind.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Flamecleansed is only good for fire sorcs. Other 3 savant lines are left behind.

you're missing out on 50 spell power, but not on the DC and cha bonus.

[PsychoBlonde]

To be super clear, the only reason we didn't make a specific light armor caster set is because there wasn't physically room in Sharn's loot lists. I'm throwing a set in the next update, I just didn't want to overload the treasure tables. When we go over 6 or 7 items per chest (for example, the end chest of White Plume Mountain) it starts to get suuuuuuper frustrating. I believe I spelled this out back in one of the loot discussion threads, but there were roughly 1000 posts total across both of those so finding it myself is too much effort, you're just going to have to trust me :P

A medium armor in the Flamecleansed Fury set would be extremely welcome as well, since Favored Souls don't get Heavy armor proficiency natively.

[Iriale]

A medium armor in the Flamecleansed Fury set would be extremely welcome as well, since Favored Souls don't get Heavy armor proficiency natively.

Flamecleansed Fury set has medium armor

[HastyPudding]

Wondering what would be on this light armor casting set. Since it seems to be primarily aimed at warlocks and bards, some special spell penetration or caster level bonuses would be nice, since warlocks and bards are slightly lacking in that area due to only having 6 spell levels.

I just hope the new light armor set doesn't take up the goggles slot. That's a big issue with the Esoteric set; it's the only set that won't let you use the community-made goggles.

[Whisper1]

you're missing out on 50 spell power, but not on the DC and cha bonus.

Also you are missing +10% spell crit with fire spells, which is much more important than extra 50 spellpower (which is not small bonus, either).

[Grace_ana]

Flamecleansed is only good for fire sorcs. Other 3 savant lines are left behind.

Sure, but if the argument is that we can't have medium armor in the druid set because of sorcs, it makes no sense because of the flamecleansed set.

[Iriale]

Sure, but if the argument is that we can't have medium armor in the druid set because of sorcs, it makes no sense because of the flamecleansed set.

What sorcerer players look for in the druid set is the bonuses in elemental form (Sky/Sea Attunement), as well as the fact that the equipment itself is focused on elemental damage; the necklaces of this set are perfect for sorcerer, instead the flametouched has bonuses to light and devotion that do nothing for sorcerer: there is only one light spell in the arcane list (sunburst) and all the healing spells that a sorc could have require to play in exalted angel instead of in draconic. You can not justify using two pieces of equipment practically useless to get the bonus of the set.

The lack of bonus to charisma makes the druid set a bad set for sorcerer, however. Actually, from the point of view of spellcasting, the esoteric is the only good for sorc. Which implies going through a robe. And really this would be just (it's the right proficiency for this class) of not being so absurdly incentivized the MRR in the current game. But in that sense the wizzie has the same problems as the sorc. As much as I hate the current tretis-style loot design, this is not a problem with the design of these sets, but with the design of the quests. In the past evasion was king because it benefited excessively the survival. Today the MRR is king because it greatly benefits survival.

Returning to the initial topic, I have a similar problem when it comes to equip my arti. My arti is not one of the tanks that the devs have made fashionable, but a classic crossbowman and trapper in light armor, who likes to use both his spells and his runearm and his crossbow. However, there is zero support for this style of play in Sharn's sets. There's no way to get a decent spell DC, or combine the bonuses I need to weapon damage, character defense and spellcasting (I even have problems in adding Spot to the gear). The only set that has light armor is the wallwatch, and its arrangement practically blocks all decent spellcasting objects and of course he does not get a set bonus to his spells and runearm. Nor does it help that there is not a single filigree oriented to this type of builds. The few filigrees that give discrete bonuses to a spellpower (like electrocution) do not help with the DC of evocation (not a single filigree has an evocation bonus, although there are those that give enchantment or necromancy bonuses) nor do they have intelligence filigrees.

It is not as if to get both workable facets was OP. An arti does not have the powerful spells of a sorc or wizzie, its spells have the level of power suitable for it to function as a hybrid and give him the right power to the class. And there is zero support for this type of build in Sharn (and very little in previous packs, since the devs insisted on turning the arti into a tank, an aberration in my point of view). I really do not like the loot of Sharn

[Iriale]

Its easy to understand why you were requesting such features now. lol . Lets ignore D&D and DDO game mechanics and emulate some other mmo that may have its healing foundations very different from DDO. Because you want it =).

Yes, please the alternatives for Esoteric Initiate.

Well, while I do not like anything to leave the tradition of D&D, we must say that those who broke with this tradition were the devs to introduce the nerf to self-healing in reaper, something that has no support in D&D and created problems of healing the pale masters. In the past, the inability of the party to heal the pale masters (unless there was the luck of having a cleric in the group) was the tradeoff to their good self-healing. Now that devs have removed the self-healing in medium-high reaper, it would be necessary to find some way that the companions could cure them too.

You can not criticize people who propose solutions not D&D, when the devs were the first to create mechanicals not D&D.

[Whisper1]

What sorcerer players look for in the druid set is the bonuses in elemental form (Sky/Sea Attunement), as well as the fact that the equipment itself is focused on elemental damage; the necklaces of this set are perfect for sorcerer, instead the flametouched has bonuses to light and devotion that do nothing for sorcerer: there is only one light spell in the arcane list (sunburst) and all the healing spells that a sorc could have require to play in exalted angel instead of in draconic. You can not justify using two pieces of equipment practically useless to get the bonus of the set.

The lack of bonus to charisma makes the druid set a bad set for sorcerer, however. Actually, from the point of view of spellcasting, the esoteric is the only good for sorc. Which implies going through a robe. And really this would be just (it's the right proficiency for this class) of not being so absurdly incentivized the MRR in the current game. But in that sense the wizzie has the same problems as the sorc. As much as I hate the current tretis-style loot design, this is not a problem with the design of these sets, but with the design of the quests. In the past evasion was king because it benefited excessively the survival. Today the MRR is king because it greatly benefits survival.

I doubt that any sorceror who play in high end content will equip Esoteric set.

1) You lose -3% crit from robe and -20 spell power (+2 and +10 from amulet in elemental form from amulet) but you gain 81 false life and 85 heal.amp. Also no cap on MRR and +60 PRR from medium armor.
2) Goggles are worse than Cannith crafting for chosen element. +79 ins. combustion in crafting VS +77 ins. potency on named item.
3) Cant equip Collective sight item, you probably want to.
4) For sorc blaster aetherbands are useless, dps spells dont penetrate SR, if i want to - i can equip RL nightmother scepter.

You want to be fire savant though. For air savant maybe arcsteel? Water/earth savants i have no advise, tough luck.

But in that sense the wizzie has the same problems as the sorc.

No.
Arcsteel battlemage set. Medium armor caster set with +Int.

[DaviMOC]

Well, while I do not like anything to leave the tradition of D&D, we must say that those who broke with this tradition were the devs to introduce the nerf to self-healing in reaper, something that has no support in D&D and created problems of healing the pale masters. In the past, the inability of the party to heal the pale masters (unless there was the luck of having a cleric in the group) was the tradeoff to their good self-healing. Now that devs have removed the self-healing in medium-high reaper, it would be necessary to find some way that the companions could cure them too.

You can not criticize people who propose solutions not D&D, when the devs were the first to create mechanicals not D&D.

I can BUT i wasnt. I just went this road because that was his initial argument to question the lore explanation why a cleric cant heal an undead with a heal spell and I explained why it cant fit D&D or DDO. Reaper is an extrapolation and a new set of rules created for the game. I do agree PM got wasted since enhancement revamp( not only reaper trees) not so much as melee and THF more specific are. However to ask positive healing for undeads is worse than that "hamster wheel" you complain about so much .

Is not only about game rules but its concepts. Its like asking to wear a sword in the head slot because reaper is not good for melees that are not single target tanks or because you saw it on a pirate Anime. There is simpler ways to solve PM issues without breaking dead that game identity. Also there is game balance and players collaboration. To expect sorc/wizard to have death aura and reconstruction is nearly close to expect a bard/druid to cast a healing spell from time to time if you're aiming high reaper.

EDIT.:There is a whole tree dedicated to the front line in the sorc class and it have the ability and need to use medium armors . Its possible without any building tricks or splashs so its supposed to be supported as PM are with all those undead boon and negative amp we got even if being an undead is more exclusive than a armored caster( only one tree in the whole game allows to take an undead form) . Arcsteel is not that focused on tanking or forged healing. Sharn sets are focused on AMP. No matter what set you get, you gonna grab a boost to your healing amp,fort, prr and mrr.

[Iriale]

I doubt that any sorceror who play in high end content will equip Esoteric set.

1) You lose -3% crit from robe and -20 spell power (+2 and +10 from amulet in elemental form from amulet) but you gain 81 false life and 85 heal.amp. Also no cap on MRR and +60 PRR from medium armor.
2) Goggles are worse than Cannith crafting for chosen element. +79 ins. combustion in crafting VS +77 ins. potency on named item.
3) Cant equip Collective sight item, you probably want to.
4) For sorc blaster aetherbands are useless, dps spells dont penetrate SR, if i want to - i can equip RL nightmother scepter.

You want to be fire savant though. For air savant maybe arcsteel? Water/earth savants i have no advise, tough luck.

Esoteric is not good for nobody, guy. As DC wizzie you do not gain anything that you did not have with slavers, and you lose many individual spellpower bonuses (like impulse) that you had before. For me Sharn's loot tastes more bitter than sweet.

No.
Arcsteel battlemage set. Medium armor caster set with +Int.

Arcsteel is not good for the traditional caster wizzie either, although I agree with you that this set should have charisma bonuses, since the sorc has the EK tree too, and I even think that it should accommodate the artifices looking for an improvement in their spellcasting (although for that it would need a light armor)

[Iriale]

I can BUT i wasnt. I just went this road because that was his initial argument to question the lore explanation why a cleric cant heal an undead with a heal spell and I explained why it cant fit D&D or DDO. Reaper is an extrapolation and a new set of rules created for the game. I do agree PM got wasted since enhancement revamp( not only reaper trees) not so much as melee and THF more specific are. However to ask positive healing for undeads is worse than that "hamster wheel" you complain about so much .

Is not only about game rules but its concepts. Its like asking to wear a sword in the head slot because reaper is not good for melees that are not single target tanks or because you saw it on a pirate Anime. There is simpler ways to solve PM issues without breaking dead that game identity. Also there is game balance and players collaboration. To expect sorc/wizard to have death aura and reconstruction is nearly close to expect a bard/druid to cast a healing spell from time to time if you're aiming high reaper.

Reaper is a new set of rules, and if pale masters could be cured with positive energy it would be a new set of rules. Neither are concepts that make much sense, but the door opened with the introduction of reaper.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not advocating for this to be done, yes or yes. I'm just saying that given one thing, the other does not make less sense. The mistake came with the lazy implementation of reaper, there were many other ways to put difficulty, and the devs chose one that went against the essence of D&D. Open door ... why not more changes.

[DaviMOC]

Reaper is a new set of rules, and if pale masters could be cured with positive energy it would be a new set of rules. Neither are concepts that make much sense, but the door opened with the introduction of reaper.

Do not get me wrong, I'm not advocating for this to be done, yes or yes. I'm just saying that given one thing, the other does not make less sense. The mistake came with the lazy implementation of reaper, there were many other ways to put difficulty, and the devs chose one that went against the essence of D&D. Open door ... why not more changes.

If you go that way you can ask for anything XD. Let us have pistol or bazookas already, or let people do higher unarmed damage wihtout handwraps or monk training damage higher than any weapon. Why? Because its reaper,its new rules, its hard and no one have dropped the good weapons yet.Its an failed assumption.

As broken reaper may look to some( wont get to the merit) it got foundations on the base game rules. Still wont extend much more on this, intention wasnt to question benefits for PMs. Was only to explain why positive is bad for a negative being as the OP seemed to miss it.

[Iriale]

If you go that way you can ask for anything XD. Let us have pistol or bazookas already, or let people do higher unarmed damage wihtout handwraps or monk training damage higher than any weapon. Why? Because its reaper,its new rules, its hard and no one have dropped the good weapons yet.Its an failed assumption.

As broken reaper may look to some( wont get to the merit) it got foundations on the base game rules. Still wont extend much more on this, intention wasnt to question benefits for PMs. Was only to explain why positive is bad for a negative being as the OP seemed to miss it.

If you want an explanation to cure by positive of pale masters, although at a lower ratio than other builds, here is one: the shrouds do not make you undead, they only give you some undead properties. The pale masters still have many characteristics of the living (if they were really undead they would be immune to ability drain, for example, and they would be immune to the magic of restoration, which they are not in either case)

I'm sorry, but so little sense (or so much sense) have the rules of reaper like this. Actually, reaper rules make less sense... I do not want to extend myself either, but it is logical to point out that it is not worse for the game the positive cure of pale masters than other changes of rules that are already introduced.

[DaviMOC]

If you want an explanation to cure by positive of pale masters, although at a lower ratio than other builds, here is one: the shrouds do not make you undead, they only give you some undead properties. The pale masters still have many characteristics of the living (if they were really undead they would be immune to ability drain, for example, and they would be immune to the magic of restoration, which they are not in either case)
.

"Shroud of the Zombie: Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a zombie. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."
"Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a vampire. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."
"Shroud of the Lich: Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a lich.You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."

Ok.

[Iriale]

"Shroud of the Zombie: Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a zombie. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."
"Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a vampire. You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."
"Shroud of the Lich: Shroud Toggle: You shroud yourself with negative energy and assume many of the traits of a lich.You are considered undead rather than your original type for the purpose of most effects."

Ok.

There he says he gives you many undead traits, not all. So it could be that you keep part of your healing for positive. And let's see, explain why the pale masters suffer ability drain, when the undead are immune to it. Why restauration spells heal the ability to damage, when that is magic to which the undead are immune. And so on. The shrouds give *some* traits of undead. Not all.

the thing is that reaper changed the way the whole game worked, and also D&D. If the pale masters can not self heal in high reaper, but they can not be cured by others, it will be necessary to find alternative solutions, right?