Light Armor Option for Sharn Caster Sets

[TheMaxpower]

I still don’t understand why SSG excluded light armor from the Sharn caster sets. For example , DC Warlocks are proficient with light armor but no options for that exist in the caster sets. How hard would it be to add light armor to these sets?

[TPICKRELL]

I still don’t understand why SSG excluded light armor from the Sharn caster sets. For example , DC Warlocks are proficient with light armor but no options for that exist in the caster sets. How hard would it be to add light armor to these sets?

Definitely agree with this, theres basically one poor option for a light armor dc caster, other than staying in ravenloft/slave lords gear.

[mikarddo]

I still don’t understand why SSG excluded light armor from the Sharn caster sets. For example , DC Warlocks are proficient with light armor but no options for that exist in the caster sets. How hard would it be to add light armor to these sets?

One the Devs, I believe it was Lynnabel, posted a while ago, that this is intended - but as far as I know gave no actual reasoning. Sorry I dont have a link.

I very much agree though that not having light and medium armor options is very poor style (ES Warlocks get medium armor proficiency for example) but it seems that is not going to change for reasons that to my knowledge remain unexplained.

[TPICKRELL]

One the Devs, I believe it was Lynnabel, posted a while ago, that this is intended - but as far as I know gave no actual reasoning. Sorry I dont have a link.

I very much agree though that not having light and medium armor options is very poor style (ES Warlocks get medium armor proficiency for example) but it seems that is not going to change for reasons that to my knowledge remain unexplained.

I saw those posts as well. From memory the rationalization was that the light armor set needed to be downgraded in power to account for the extra defenses that light armor gives over robes. However, I don't see much difference in power between the medium armor caster sets and the cloth caster sets. For me the difference appears to be either 0 or 1 dc depending on if I am odd or not charisma.

She didn't have time to make a set for everything so light armor casters were one of the unlucky ones to be left out (… again )

[Lynnabel]

To be super clear, the only reason we didn't make a specific light armor caster set is because there wasn't physically room in Sharn's loot lists. I'm throwing a set in the next update, I just didn't want to overload the treasure tables. When we go over 6 or 7 items per chest (for example, the end chest of White Plume Mountain) it starts to get suuuuuuper frustrating. I believe I spelled this out back in one of the loot discussion threads, but there were roughly 1000 posts total across both of those so finding it myself is too much effort, you're just going to have to trust me :P

[GramercyRiff]

One the Devs, I believe it was Lynnabel, posted a while ago, that this is intended - but as far as I know gave no actual reasoning. Sorry I dont have a link.

I very much agree though that not having light and medium armor options is very poor style (ES Warlocks get medium armor proficiency for example) but it seems that is not going to change for reasons that to my knowledge remain unexplained.

While I agree that light armor should be a set option for casters with light armor proficiency, the ES Warlock seems to have a pretty decent set bonus with Flamecleansed Fury.

[JOTMON]

Light armor DC based casters got shafted and have been so for some time...


~The other thread is closed so cant copy within quotes.. ~
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https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6203956
@lynnabel

~Wow, we certainly broke 300 posts very quickly, heh.

When I wrote that we want to enforce some actual relationship between armor and effectiveness for spellcasting, I meant it. If you'll notice, the armor sets that allow for heavier armor have lower and more restricted casting stats in their set bonus and on their items as compared to the robes set. It would be a disservice to Light to throw it with Medium and Heavy as Lights lack of defenses compared to Heavy/Medium would afford it higher efficiency - and also make no sense at all thematically.

Of the three sets, one is Lightning and robot themed (not bards or warlocks), one is holy fire themed (not bards and it matches the ES tree but if you guys wanted to use the ES tree you'd be in Medium anyway so there's no downside to just using this set as it stands), and one is Druid Casting themed (definitely not Warlock related and last I checked Bards don't turn into elementals anywhere in their kit :P).

We can't fit every playstyle, and that's just the actual truth. Of the 7 sets we tried to paint a broad brush, and it's inevitable that we can't please everyone. There's room for some niche sets in future releases and I am okay with that, it leaves us room to give some fun and specific toys to tight playstyle niches without being so broad that every build wears the same fancy clothes.

@lynnabel

If there's one thing you can count on me to do, as this thread may have shown you, it's telling you guys "no" when I need to.

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@Jotmon
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6203993

Well its frustrating for warlocks who are dc light armor focussed we got ignored for armor associated set bonuses in Slavelords, Ravenloft, and now also ignored for forthcoming set bonus in Sharn.

Slavelords:
No light armors
Plate and Cloth .


Ravenloft:
light armors got synergized with melee... Silent avenger got both of the only light armors Mist-laden Vestment and Vestments of Ravenloft
Beacon of magic set was cloth.
Medium melee
Heavy melee

Sharn:
4 Heavy armor sets
3 Medium Armors
2 light armors both melee
2 melee outfits
1 caster outfit



Even stand alone Leather for perks for casters has been skipped since Update 29 ~Leathers of the Celestial Sage which had :Insightful Spell Focus Mastery +3


~Update 30~
No Worries - Full Plate

~Update 31~
Drow Outrunner Armor - (Light Armor) not caster helpful
Hardened Hide Armor - (Medium Armor)

~Update 32~
Executioner's Platemail
Slave Rags(outfit)

~Update 33~
Cosmetic platemail

~Update 34~
no armors

~update 35~
Emissary's Vestments (Robe) melee
Scales of Malice (Medium armor)
Scales of Avarice (Heavy armor)

~Update 36~
Deep Arcanum (Outfit)
Graz'zt's Habiliment (Leather) Melee

~Update 37 (Ravenloft)~

~update 38 Disciples of Rage~
Heavy armor

~update 39 White Plume Mountain/the 12 quests~
Brimstone Boulder Warden's Robe (outfit) - spell pen
Illicit Warding Armor (Light Armor) melee
Shadowshimmer Cladding (Outfit) melee
Coldharbor Cladding (Medium Armor)melee
Confiscated Heavy Mail (Heavy Armor) melee

~update 40 Killing Time and other scraps~
Mail of the Mroranon Medium Armor
Nullscale Armor Heavy Armor

~update 41Lost at Sea~
No armors

~update 42 Sharn~
12 armors and no light armor for casters...



2 years of updates and expansions and you have managed to skip over leather armors for casters, in particular useful leathers that blend for dc caster sets.

Sharn disproportionately favors non leather armors..
4 Heavy armor sets (2 caster)
3 Medium Armors (2 caster)
3 outfits (1 for casters)
2 light armors both melee (0 caster)

Endgame leather armor DC casters are effectively screwed over, especially when it comes to the set bonus combinations.

Originally Posted by Lynnabel

I have no idea what you want me to do. If you have any concrete, constructive feedback, please let me know so you can help contribute.

We asked for a leather option for DC casters in one of the sharn sets
The Flamecleansed Fury Set would work for warlocks since it does support light spell power and DC's..
.. you said No..

..so where do we go from here.? ..

[Don1966]

honestly the better solution since just about all the armors have the same effects would have been for armor blanks to drop in the chests. you get a blank, take it to someone, they ask what style of armor, cloth thru heavy and docent, then they ask what set you want it to match. then my cloth wear cleric could use the divine set.

[mr420247]

That is actually awesome news vs past years gone by

Still the medium options ain't that good for sets either

[HastyPudding]

As I stated back on Lammania, Warlocks and spellsinger Bards got slapped in the face with this expansion. By default, they are armored casters, meaning they are proficient with light armor and have no arcane spell failure in light armor. Placing them in robes halves their MRR and requires them to spend precious filigree slots on the Nystul's set to get their MRR to acceptable levels in an expansion that has A LOT of heavy magic damage. Now, you could use the flamecleansed set (which has charisma bonuses) and it's helpful to some warlocks, but not very helpful to bards, but it requires you to spend additional AP to get medium armor proficiency. Both options are not helpful to DC casters to spend AP and use filigree that doesn't ultimately help their DC's (which light armored bards and warlocks usually are). So the better option is simply to stay with the slavers sorcery set and add in some random sharn pieces to keep the status quo.

Also, it's irritating that the DC caster/generalist caster set (Esoteric) is the only set that can't use the community-made goggles, an item which makes a lot of gear-switching highly versatile, further making me resent it and another reason I won't use it on my spellsinger bard.

Strangely, the 'you can't have everything' doesn't apply to warforged, because they get a docent with every set, and they could just as easily use the adamantine body feat and any of the sets (including the robes-only Esoteric set for DC casters) and no issue getting enough arcane spell failure reduction.

[mr420247]

Warlocks have no esf in medium coat of the traveller is op armor maxed out

And with the new ek and trinket you could probably got full heavy metal caster es on the trinket

[Rykka]

Caster classes that use Armor without taking a feat or multiclassing:

Warlock - Medium
Wizard - Medium
Sorc - Medium
Cleric - Heavy
FVS - Medium
Bard - Medium
Arti - Medium
Druid - Medium

Which basicly leaves monk as the only class that should be wearing cloth.

Eventually they'll do something about Pale Master and maybe I'll want to do a robed Wizard again. Can't see my sorc wearing robes tho. Not the way the raid damage is being applied anyways.

[Lynnabel]

Eventually they'll do something about Pale Master

Eventually indeed

[mr420247]

Like the sorc pass 2020 after game closes i gave up on any of that

[JOTMON]

As I stated back on Lammania, Warlocks and spellsinger Bards got slapped in the face with this expansion. By default, they are armored casters, meaning they are proficient with light armor and have no arcane spell failure in light armor. Placing them in robes halves their MRR and requires them to spend precious filigree slots on the Nystul's set to get their MRR to acceptable levels in an expansion that has A LOT of heavy magic damage. Now, you could use the flamecleansed set (which has charisma bonuses) and it's helpful to some warlocks, but not very helpful to bards, but it requires you to spend additional AP to get medium armor proficiency. Both options are not helpful to DC casters to spend AP and use filigree that doesn't ultimately help their DC's (which light armored bards and warlocks usually are). So the better option is simply to stay with the slavers sorcery set and add in some random sharn pieces to keep the status quo.

Also, it's irritating that the DC caster/generalist caster set (Esoteric) is the only set that can't use the community-made goggles, an item which makes a lot of gear-switching highly versatile, further making me resent it and another reason I won't use it on my spellsinger bard.

Strangely, the 'you can't have everything' doesn't apply to warforged, because they get a docent with every set, and they could just as easily use the adamantine body feat and any of the sets (including the robes-only Esoteric set for DC casters) and no issue getting enough arcane spell failure reduction.

/agreed..

The way I see it..
Going to robes is pointless, the MRR loss with how the new content aoe damage hits everyone pretty much kills off robe viability vs staying with old generic light armors.. or opting to go Medium.

Medium armor at least is workable with augment/filigrees but its a work around not an improvement..
and... spending 22AP in a non complimentary tree for med armor proficiency is detrimental, not complimentary since it means giving up Tainted scholar perks.
The goal is to move power/DC's forward with gear/sets, not backwards..


Forges are still screwed over since Forges do not get medium armor recognition due to mithral being treated as light armor not medium.
This goes back a few years with the dev's failure to fix Mithral and treat mithral as better/lighter versions of the armor they are supposed to be... not actually be the lighter version of armors.

Theres an old post around where Cordovan recognized mithral/Adamantine issues, but it was low on the list of things to think about fixing..
March 2015....

We understand that there are folks that would like us to give some attention to mithril (and adamantine, and random-gen armor in general.) So far our schedule has not permitted it, but hopefully this is something we can carve out time for when the time is right.

we are still waiting….


The docent/ Mithral body combo doesn't trigger the med armor benefits from feats or enhancements because it is coded to be recognized as light armor.
Forged dodge bonuses are heavily restricted vs fleshy armors which further harms forge builds.

Its too bad they didn't introduce 'unarmored body' feat which would allow forges to wear regular armors instead of docents.
Since the implementation of Reaper, Forges in general are poor choices...

[mr420247]

Forges and necros are toast till they fn universalive all healing and amp bs

Unfair reaper penalties and gear and ed and everything else

When i can self heal myself more then i can a forged in reaper its broken stupid and i can

[Rykka]

Eventually indeed

SoonTM

[Rykka]

Forges and necros are toast till they fn universalive all healing and amp bs

Unfair reaper penalties and gear and ed and everything else

When i can self heal myself more then i can a forged in reaper its broken stupid and i can

Robots do get a light and heavy armor version of the ravenloft and sharn caster set robe tho. :P

[mr420247]

And the worst docent body armors from 10 years ago

They won't even patch update how horrible no or mithril or adamantium bs

Or give it as a free feat so your down a feat just to be nerfed horribly

[janave]

Like the sorc pass 2020 after game closes i gave up on any of that

This.^^^^

My first life Wizard beats my multi compl Sorcerer. They are both evocation casters. The gearing is actually superior on the Sorc. At the same time i get passive healing wraith form and a batch of QoL immunities, extra feats and skills to top out. Can reach ~5.2k mana on the Wiz, while 6.5k or very bad gear setup ~7k on Sorc.



2020 sounds good, but my gut feel is we are looking at 2044.

It would be happy if the capstones were less self defeating on the Sorcs.


Please consider the following changes to Sorcerer capstones:

+4 CHA
removal of negative levels from elemental shroud
removal of negative spell cost from elemental shroud

This wont fix them with a single stroke, but from the outside, it sounds like a quick and relatively easy fix to make them more playable in the meantime, while the bigger picture builds up

Please remember Sorc were ever considered OP because of Warforged tanking with Torc+ConcOpp, and repair to infinity. -- None of this is a thing anymore at level cap.