VKF Wizard

[Lauf]

Hi,

I've recently had an itch to put together a Vistani build, and after some testing it became clear that monk stances are the way to go, build on the rapid attacks and double-strike, and get as much damage-on-hit effects as possible.

this led me down an obvious path of sneak attacks, and a less obvious path of the EK spellsword.

will sneak attacks, on a rogue with blind/deception gear and extra SA from assassin/monk/halfling enhancements do more damage? sure.
but I've never played a spellsword build before, so I figured, with your help, I'd try to put one together and hopefully it'll be both viable and entertaining to play.

so let's get to it

I should start by stating that this build is meant for heroic leveling only, so no point in planning the epic part of it, though someone in the future might find value in it, who knows.

As for the class split, since we're aiming for as many hits as possible, the greater twf seems like a good target to aim for at 18 (BaB 11) which means 12 wizard levels.
Alternatively, we could go for grandmaster of forms, and push wizard up to 15-18 levels.
As this is meant to be a heroic leveling build, I was thinking something along the lines of 2 monk, 6 ranger, then 12 wiz, playing it as a straight up melee until imp.twf, then spellsword damage and wiz buffs will be added as it levels beyond that, and there should also be enough enhancement points at that stage to support the Vistani tree.

For stats, originally I thought I'd go Int, with insightful reflexes and harper int-to-hit/damage, but I'm not sure the harper AP cost is worth it. Might be better to stick to dex as a primary stat, and get dex-to-hit/damage from tempest.

Likely feats will be:
Extend (Wizard Feat)
Quicken (Wizard Feat)
GTWF (twf + imp.twf from ranger)
IC: Pierce
Dodge
Adept + Master of forms


Other than that, thoughts on Precision/Toughness/Mobility/Lightning Reflexes?


This is as far as I've gotten, can you help me put this thing together?

[Lauf]

EK VIS
12/6/2 Wizard/Ranger/Monk
Lawful Good Dwarf


Level Order

1. Ranger. . . . . 6. Ranger . . . . 11. Wizard . . . . 16. Wizard
2. Ranger. . . . . 7. Monk . . . . . 12. Wizard . . . . 17. Wizard
3. Ranger. . . . . 8. Monk . . . . . 13. Wizard . . . . 18. Wizard
4. Ranger. . . . . 9. Wizard. . . . .14. Wizard. . . . .19. Wizard
5. Ranger. . . . .10. Wizard. . . . .15. Wizard. . . . .20. Wizard


Stats
. . . . . . . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +4 . . . 4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 18. . . .18 . . . +4 . . . 8: DEX
Constitution. . 17. . . .18 . . . +4 . . .12: DEX
Intelligence. . 14. . . .14 . . . +4 . . .16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +4 . . .20: DEX
Charisma. . . . .6. . . . 6 . . . +4 . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: DEX

Feats

.1. . . . : Precision
.3. . . . : Dodge
.6. . . . : Completionist
.7 Monk . : Toughness
.8 Monk . : Lightning Reflexes
.9. . . . : Adept of Forms
.9 Wizard : Extend Spell
12. . . . : Master of Forms
13 Wizard : Quicken Spell
15. . . . : Improved Critical: Piercing
18. . . . : Greater Two Weapon Fighting
18 Wizard :


Enhancements (80 AP)

Tempest (33 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death
  1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades
  3. Storm Dancer, Critical Mastery III, Whirling Blades
  4. Storm Tempest, Whirling Blades
  5. Dance of Death III

Vistani Knife Fighter (28 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost III
  3. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
  4. Celerity, Mist Stalker, Double Daggers

Deepwood Stalker (12 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Exposing Strike
  1. Favored Defense III, Stealthy III, Tendon Cut III

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (7 AP)

• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword
  1. Arcane Siphon III, Toughness II

[DaviMOC]

With that many levels in wizard, wont you be in better shape to aim core enhancements up to Subtle Force I for extra die on your Spellsword and double strike?
Also knight's transformation to compensate so many levels on a low bab class and some extra double strike and drop a bit from DWS and something else to achieve the minimum 22 ap spent on EK.

So far you said you would try the spellsword but basically you aimed for ranger sneaks over anything. 12 lvls of a low bab class its a high price for so little you getting from it. Also spellswords can be very effective it scales with spellpower and you can swap elements to exploit weakness or bypass defenses . You may find way more work to bypass mobs Sneak imunity or to just have the sneak oportunity.

[Lauf]

With that many levels in wizard, wont you be in better shape to aim core enhancements up to Subtle Force I for extra die on your Spellsword and double strike?
Also knight's transformation to compensate so many levels on a low bab class and some extra double strike and drop a bit from DWS and something else to achieve the minimum 22 ap spent on EK.

So far you said you would try the spellsword but basically you aimed for ranger sneaks over anything. 12 lvls of a low bab class its a high price for so little you getting from it. Also spellswords can be very effective it scales with spellpower and you can swap elements to exploit weakness or bypass defenses . You may find way more work to bypass mobs Sneak imunity or to just have the sneak oportunity.

You raise some interesting valid points. I didn't rate Knight's transformation highly enough to warrant losing out on DWS + Energy Drain immunity + dagger damage, but I may be wrong..
and after checking, it can be done
here's the new enhancement breakdown:

Enhancements (80 AP)

Tempest (33 AP)

• Shield of Whirling Steel, Tempest, Graceful Death
  1. Improved Reaction III, Improved Defense III, Whirling Blades
  2. Improved Parry III, Improved Dodge III, Whirling Blades
  3. Storm Dancer, Critical Mastery III, Whirling Blades
  4. Storm Tempest, Whirling Blades
  5. Dance of Death III

Vistani Knife Fighter (24 AP)

• Knife Expertise, Knife Juggler, Knife Specialist, One With Blades
  1. Vistani Knife Training, Undead Hunter, Mist Stalker, Rapid Attack
  2. Vistani Knife Training, Mist Stalker, Haste Boost III
  3. Mist Stalker, Deadly Blades
  4. Celerity, Double Daggers

Eldritch Knight (Wizard) (23 AP)

• Eldritch Strike, Spellsword, Imbue the Blade, Subtle Force
  1. Improved Mage Armor III, Arcane Siphon III, Toughness II, Battlemage I
  2. Improved Shield III, Mystic Wards III
  3. Arcane Barrier
  4. Knight's Transformation

the problems I'm having with the idea is all 3 trees have highlights at the very top, and on a heroic leveling build that just isn't going to happen... perhaps a respec @ 20 makes sense, but while leveling it'll likely come down to a choice between investing more in Vistani vs EK, and the EK tree is very defensive in nature, with mostly fluff from point 7 up to 20.
I think tenser scrolls are probably the way to go, but who knows, frustrations might drive an earlier investment towards Knight's Transformation.

[unbongwah]

The main problem here is a surfeit of riches, namely you have access to at least three good melee DPS trees and not enough APs for everything you want from them. Particularly if this is a heroic-only life, it's a good idea to focus on one of those trees rather than split your focus between all three.

[Lauf]

The main problem here is a surfeit of riches, namely you have access to at least three good melee DPS trees and not enough APs for everything you want from them. Particularly if this is a heroic-only life, it's a good idea to focus on one of those trees rather than split your focus between all three.

undeniable, they're all good, and I have no intention of focusing all 3...
making a Vistani build was the goal, since it doesn't have built in AoE then tempest was required (if you have a better idea, I'm all ears!)
so that's (as detailed above) 33+24 = 57 points.

now the question is what would be the best way to add damage to this fighting flurry. my thinking was EK (with extended buffs to boot), but again, suggestions and ideas are welcome. after all, that's why I've posted...

[DaviMOC]

That's a personal taste but I would rather focus even more on EK, getting eldrich tempest and force's edge. Would leave all the AoE to Eldritch Tempest, Eldritch Strike, and quicken spells building up some Force's Point stacks and getting only the twf benefits from tempest. Eldritch Knight already does a nice AoE Job.

[voxson5]

That's a personal taste but I would rather focus even more on EK, getting eldrich tempest and force's edge. Would leave all the AoE to Eldritch Tempest, Eldritch Strike, and quicken spells building up some Force's Point stacks and getting only the twf benefits from tempest. Eldritch Knight already does a nice AoE Job.

Yeah agreed, but much different build I think.

OP, where is your self healing coming from? Undead healing will be very limited without a few points into PM, and if WF you might be able to drop ooints from vista i.

Also, harper & KTA is the shiz on a melee wizard, and you might be leaving too much dps on the table without it.

[Grailhawk]

making a Vistani build was the goal, since it doesn't have built in AoE then tempest was required (if you have a better idea, I'm all ears!)

I'm not sure how to say this but this is your problem you want an optimal build out of something that's not.

Vistani is not an optimal build for AOE damage its optimal with 18 Rogue for single target damage. AOE fast attacking is either Monk with Whirlwind or Pure Tempest with DoD.

As for what your trying for AOE be sub optimal use cleaves from EK and possibly feat + Fireball/Spells, may want to drop ranger down to only 3 levels for just the Tempest enhancement + Deft Strikes + Vistani Double Daggers = 40% offhand proc rate (assuming it all stacks i have no clue test, and if you do let me know if you do) means you only need to have BAB for ITWF in heroics.