What does SSG have planned for the future?

[Loromir]

I love DDO and SSG. I've played DDO for over 9 years and have supported the game with my money. I am happily VIP and have no plans to end that anytime soon.

With that being said...DDO and LOTRO are very old games by MMO standards. While I'm sure there must be some revenue stream (Otherwise SSG would not exist)....it can't be that much....but what do I know.

I hope SSG has some plans for the future to justify staying afloat. There is just only so much you can squeeze from old titles like these. I hope SSG is working on some new game (Be it DDO2, LOTRO2....or GoT1....hmmm....maybe?)

I fear the sugar daddies known as LOTRO and DDO can only last for so long.

No comments required...just some internal ruminating on my part. Carry on.

[systemshaker1941]

SSG has neither the manpower nor the capitol to launch a new MMO. I suspect the "plan" is to milk as much out of the existing titles as possible through a series of expansion packs and joyless cash-grabs, all while lowering operating expenses and hemorrhaging staff. Eventually the game will go into maintenance mode as they keep on just enough staff to keep the lights burning while whoever actually owns the company cashes a check. Finally, if Asheron's Call is any indication, we will get about 1 months warning before the on/off switch is moved to "off" and the entire game, servers, website, and memory disappear in a moment that will, at worse, give a jedi somewhere something he mistakes for mild indigestion.

It's sad but that's the only direction they can go. Too many short-sighted decisions. The good news is we still have at least 3-4 years, minimum.

[banjo174]

I think everyone would be surprised by how successful in terms of revenue DDO really is. If they went public with it. I think its doing a lot better than people think.

[systemshaker1941]

Oh I agree. It's doing well enough to support a good sized full-time staff and new content releases are seeing return on investments.

But there's no growth. With no effort being put towards player retention new or otherwise, the only option is to try to suck as much money out of an ever-shrinking player-base as possible. While that will be enough to keep the game in content-updates for a good long while, it IS eventually going to run out. Unless there's a massive paradigm shift towards better player retention, the game is ultimately doomed.

[Elfishski]

SSG has neither the manpower nor the capitol to launch a new MMO. I suspect the "plan" is to milk as much out of the existing titles as possible through a series of expansion packs and joyless cash-grabs, all while lowering operating expenses and hemorrhaging staff. Eventually the game will go into maintenance mode as they keep on just enough staff to keep the lights burning while whoever actually owns the company cashes a check. Finally, if Asheron's Call is any indication, we will get about 1 months warning before the on/off switch is moved to "off" and the entire game, servers, website, and memory disappear in a moment that will, at worse, give a jedi somewhere something he mistakes for mild indigestion.

It's sad but that's the only direction they can go. Too many short-sighted decisions. The good news is we still have at least 3-4 years, minimum.

I think you're only half right... they clearly are targeting and milking the existing player base with expensive expansions and other offerings (season pass), but I wouldn't say it's joyless - it's hard to find anyone who wouldn't say that Ravenloft is amongst the best content if not THE best in the game (we'll see if Sharn lives up to or exceeds that), and they're also clearly not lowering their expenses since going independent. Prior to that there were no new monsters (maybe we'd get one reskinned old monster model once every couple of years), no new art on anything, and frankly some incredibly boring content over a fairly long period of time. Whatever money they are earning from all the cash-grabs seems to be re-invested into the game rather than being siphoned off into some other venture from a larger company (see: Infinite Crisis), and devs show a lot of enthusiasm for their work, so there's a lot of room for optimism.

On the other hand, there are some terribly short-sighted decisions, starting with not bothering on customer retention at all. I've personally had fairly good support when I've had a problem (never a major one), presumably as a VIP, but we have a friend who hadn't played for years and was returning but had some purchase problem with Ravenloft. A couple of months later after repeated efforts at contacting support and a complete lack of response they're playing a different game instead and who would blame them? Without making more effort on retaining new players, players that have problems with purchases, or people with broken characters after TRs noting some long-running threads, then the decline of the game will be inevitable.

[systemshaker1941]

I think you're only half right... they clearly are targeting and milking the existing player base with expensive expansions and other offerings (season pass), but I wouldn't say it's joyless - it's hard to find anyone who wouldn't say that Ravenloft is amongst the best content if not THE best in the game (we'll see if Sharn lives up to or exceeds that), and they're also clearly not lowering their expenses since going independent. Prior to that there were no new monsters (maybe we'd get one reskinned old monster model once every couple of years), no new art on anything, and frankly some incredibly boring content over a fairly long period of time. Whatever money they are earning from all the cash-grabs seems to be re-invested into the game rather than being siphoned off into some other venture from a larger company (see: Infinite Crisis), and devs show a lot of enthusiasm for their work, so there's a lot of room for optimism.

On the other hand, there are some terribly short-sighted decisions, starting with not bothering on customer retention at all. I've personally had fairly good support when I've had a problem (never a major one), presumably as a VIP, but we have a friend who hadn't played for years and was returning but had some purchase problem with Ravenloft. A couple of months later after repeated efforts at contacting support and a complete lack of response they're playing a different game instead and who would blame them? Without making more effort on retaining new players, players that have problems with purchases, or people with broken characters after TRs noting some long-running threads, then the decline of the game will be inevitable.

I'd say the season pass was definitely a joyless cash-grab; and just because new content is good doesn't mean it's not a cash grab. Look at the prices for the expansion vs. what was actually provided. It's great content but it seems like for $130 they could have made it a whole lot more worth our while. They didn't go the extra mile because they knew enough of us would buy the expensive one anyway. Granted, I'm something of a hypocrite since I absolutely pre-ordered the ultimate fan-bundle; but that's another matter.

It's true there are definitely some very passionate, dedicated team members working on DDO; but they aren't the decision-makers. And the decision makers seem to think its ok for someone to lose all their best items in a TR glitch and not get them back; even when it literally costs SSG nothing.

[Memnir]

Their plans for the future involve the past, or at least possible pasts. The plan also dabbles not-so-casually into the realms of summoning dark forces, quantum-zombies, event horizons, and the farm-league for the Illuminati.


It's all either going to go very very well... or very very not well.

[Yokido]

Dark Ages of Camelot, one of the main precursors to MMOs as a whole is still alive and kicking in "maintenance" mode with 5k~ players.

Something to consider when we think about whether DDO can make it or not long-term.

I think we need more socialization in the game to allow it to last a longer time. One of the key things that has kept DAOC alive so long is it's thriving pvp system, which keeps things entertaining in the long scheme of things through competition and socialization... DDO's PVE-only system is vulnerable to "rust" because once the updates stop flowing for a long enough time player engagement drops sharply --- the socialization aspect is only gained through teamwork, and teamwork isn't such a big deal once the content is easy, which is an inevitability when content isn't updated in a PVE-only system.

How can DDO do it?... Through casual tavern brawls? Encouraging more PUGs? Running old content just for kicks/tricks? Implementing some type of minute-but-rewarding pvp system? Who knows.

[banjo174]

Could always sell more season passes, I don't doubt that if they tried selling 10,000 more season passes, they would sell out within a few months tops.

[systemshaker1941]

[color=forestgreen]Dark Ages of Camelot, one of the main precursors to MMOs as a whole is still alive and kicking in "maintenance" mode with 5k~ players. Something to consider when we think about whether DDO can make it or not long-term.

DOAC is far from a precursor, it came out in 2001, well after Asheron's Call, Ultima Online and Everquest. In fact the same year World of Warcraft was announced. DOAC is a fine game, but a footnote in the annals of MMO history.

EQ would be a much better example, as it is not in "maintenance mode" but still thriving, with an expansion released as recently as last year. EQ went live in March of 1999, which means it just celebrated it's 20th anniversary(and I bet the player base got something better than cosmetic cloaks for their loyalty). EQ has new people joining all the time, and not just to try it out. The game may not be the most popular, but it has a growing player base. And why? Because Sony continues to invest in player retention and improving new-player experience.

Compare to Asheron's Call, made by the venerable Turbine(a company you might be familiar with) which went into decline, limped along in maintenance mode, and was shut down with all the fanfare of a wet fart. It still had an active player base well into the thousands and the potential to attract new players. Something about 19 years worth of content and 225 levels was attractive, especially coupled with a 500 square mile open world that you can't find in a modern MMO.

Why did AC decline? Because Turbine put no effort into new player experience or player retention. They also released content updates as part of the subscription instead of selling expansions. So EverQuest stayed on store shelves for years while AC pretty early on doomed itself to being stuck with it's early player base. Only word of mouth kept new players trickling in, and most quit early because the game was not n00b-friendly.

So, when we ask whether or not DDO can "make it" in the long term, we should probably be looking at AC, not DOAC.

I think we need more socialization in the game to allow it to last a longer time. One of the key things that has kept DAOC alive so long is it's thriving pvp system, which keeps things entertaining in the long scheme of things through competition and socialization... DDO's PVE-only system is vulnerable to "rust" because once the updates stop flowing for a long enough time player engagement drops sharply --- the socialization aspect is only gained through teamwork, and teamwork isn't such a big deal once the content is easy, which is an inevitability when content isn't updated in a PVE-only system.

How can DDO do it?... Through casual tavern brawls? Encouraging more PUGs? Running old content just for kicks/tricks? Implementing some type of minute-but-rewarding pvp system? Who knows.

As per usual, DDO is not a PvP game. It is not built around it, balanced around it, or designed for it. PvP will never answer any question, except for maybe "what feature could DDO stand to drop entirely?"

What would really encourage more socialization is moving away from an XP-per-min model, something currently encouraged by potions and reward-on-completion mechanics. Back when I was playing WoW, some of the best times I had were out grinding mobs with a pickup group. You got XP per mob killed, nothing more; so you could move as fast or as slow as you wanted, chew the fat, explore, etc. So long as you killed things, you were advancing. DDO's answer is of course explorer areas, where XP is rewarded for tiers of mobs killed, which again encourages speed.

So if you want more socialization, that's what you need: a form of advancement that doesn't reward people for completing it as fast as humanly possible.

One things for sure, PvP ain't gonna save the game in any timeline.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I'm at least happy that DDO isn't using the same methods of creating revenue than other companies use - the term I mean is the so-called "fun pain", created by Zynga.
One reason why I came back from SWTOR to DDO is that DDO is so much more fair to F2P players. And because of that, though still being F2P, I have bought all adventure Packs so far. At least those at low level to mid level range. Or, to put it much more theatralically : If someone treats me fair, then I'm going to honor that.

[tpbtoc]

In case DDO gets to an end, I would love to see DDO 2, in the same complexity we currently have. No other MMO has this level of customization and char building. Most MMO now have a "1 to 10" power hotbar and that's it.

[systemshaker1941]

And because of that, though still being F2P, I have bought all adventure Packs so far. At least those at low level to mid level range. Or, to put it much more theatralically : If someone treats me fair, then I'm going to honor that.

That would technically make you a 'premium' but yeah, you can drop 5 bucks on DDO to remove the true F2P limitations. I've been VIP off and on over the years but have bought most content outright. When I first started it made more sense, not VIP starts to get a bit cheaper.

In case DDO gets to an end, I would love to see DDO 2, in the same complexity we currently have. No other MMO has this level of customization and char building. Most MMO now have a "1 to 10" power hotbar and that's it.

We're never going to see a "DDO 2". The best we can possibly hope for is a spiritual successor that re-creates the deep layers of complexity; but even that is unlikely in the current market. I've searched high and low for an MMO to move to, but everything is now pvp and microtransaction-driven, simple mechanics, grindfests. I weep for the industry.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

What makes me truuly sad ist that in these times, complexity is kind of frowned upon by the masses. I mean, the sub-genre of "QAction RPGs" are - I fear so - considered THE definition of the RPG genre ...
I still do hope that my fear are wrong, but in these days I see nothing but "action" in gaming forums ...

But, uh, I really need to play my Pillars Of Eternity through ... If only it wan't so dark ...

"Grimdark" is also a thing in gaming these days. If DDO was made according to current fashions in gaming, it probably would be an fast-paced action game with heavily muted colours, lots of blood and grim adventures.

[systemshaker1941]

The key challenge is having layered complexity. Too much of a difficulty-curve up front will push players away, not enough complexity in back will do the same thing. Its an extremely challenging system to design around, and few games do it well(DDO is a fantasic exception). Because creating an elegant symphony of mechanics is hard, MMO designers these days instead try to create complexity by making their games "nintendo hard" - E.G. build and strategy mean nothing, it's all down to skill at manipulating the controls.

We can thank WoW for killing deep complexity. It's one-size-fits-most approach to game design made MMOs accessible, and at the same time destroyed the genre. Maybe in a few more years the cycle will come back around, but for now... its depressing.