DPS - Inqusitive vs. Great Crossbow

[slarden]

Has anyone tested Inquisitor vs. Great Crossbow dps? I was thinking of trying out Inquisitor 18 artificer 2 Monk with Tactical Detonation, Dire Charge and Burst of Glacial Wrath for party CC. Was just curious if the dps was in the ball game or way behind 18+ rogue mechanic or hybrid artificer 4+ / rogue 5+ / Fighter 6+ builds.

[jskinner937]

Has anyone tested Inquisitor vs. Great Crossbow dps? I was thinking of trying out Inquisitor 18 artificer 2 Monk with Tactical Detonation, Dire Charge and Burst of Glacial Wrath for party CC. Was just curious if the dps was in the ball game or way behind 18+ rogue mechanic or hybrid artificer 4+ / rogue 5+ / Fighter 6+ builds.

DPS is still ahead with mechanic rogue vs arty as far as inquisitor or great Xbox.

[blerkington]

I'm pretty sure I saw a thread recently where Tilomere and some others had done the maths on this.

Thanks.

[Xgya]

GXB still wins it out, with 18 Rogue now getting access to Fusilade thanks to Inquisitive.

So, not Inqui VS GXB: Inqui WITH GXB.

[Isolani]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-speed-and-NHB

A few people did some Great xbow vs Dual xbow attack speed testing in that thread.

[cru121]

doesn't dire charge require a melee weapon equipped?

[Garix]

GXB still wins it out, with 18 Rogue now getting access to Fusilade thanks to Inquisitive.

So, not Inqui VS GXB: Inqui WITH GXB.

Considering the description of "No Holds Bared" specifically states Light or Heavy (non-repeating Xbos), if it's working on Great Xbows then I'd be cautious building around a non-WAI effect.

Unless they have specifically said its WAI. I may of missed it..

[Dragavon]

doesn't dire charge require a melee weapon equipped?

Occasionally I will try Dire Charge with a longbow equipped, and that never works.

I can also confirm that manyshot does not work with khopesh

[slarden]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-speed-and-NHB

A few people did some Great xbow vs Dual xbow attack speed testing in that thread.

Thank you this is what I was looking for - the "second" crossbow doesn't generate double the rate of fire and isn't boosted by doubleshot.

Great Crossbow with 18 rogue levels is much better dps at cap compared to artificer options. I was hoping that cc + deadly weapons as an artificer wouldn't cost me much dps so I could bring that to parties, but it's too much lost dps. Repeater still seems better for heroic levels due to the high ap requirements to be awesome with a great xbow.

I'll run 18 rogue / 2 artificer and do some of my own testing as well since most of the tests revolved around no holds barred being active. I'm just going to use a lesser +20 so I am not worried about leveling with the build.

doesn't dire charge require a melee weapon equipped?

you have the option to change your equipped weapon. I would only use dire charge as a third option when primary cc for the party since the DC is higher. My everyday cc as an artificer would always be tactical detonation/bogw, but situationally I would swap weapons and use dire charge.

[SpartanKiller13]

Here's Tilo with a build and links to earlier threads talking about 18/2 or 18/1/1 splits using GXBow w/NHB.

Occasionally I will try Dire Charge with a longbow equipped, and that never works.

I can also confirm that manyshot does not work with khopesh

I will say that my Wizard had a much higher Dire Charge DC than any melee I've run; when I swapped my hat to L-Executioner's I got to 114, which I'd say is pretty solid considering no boosts. Mixed bag as to if I prefer it over Arcane Pulse though.

[SerPounce]

Law on your side doesn't work with great xbows unless there's some trick that I'm not aware of.

So for great xbow to be better than dual xbow the difference in base damage (including crits, etc) has to beat the law dice, the opportunity cost of 31 AP in mechanic, and any difference in the value of 18 levels of rogue vs. whatever else you'd want. I didn't see a straight DPS comparison, just RoF, but it stands to reason that having 18 levels and 31 AP in DPS is going to get some DPS advantage. But you could also get a defensive stance, a bunch of extra action boosts, and mass hold with those levels and AP and I don't know how far behind you'd really be when you consider the law dice and whatever other DPS you pick up. I Don't think great xbow is the only viable path here.

[droid327]

I think the dps is about the same, pure inqui vs mech 18+

I think mech ef builds still pull a little ahead, but yeah the real winner is inqui mech with DXB base attacks then swap to gxb for nhb nukeage. It's the DDO equivalent of whipping out the mini gun and emptying the belt.

[aGarde]

it seems like the "endless fusilade" rogue 10, arti 4, fighter 6 build still comes out on top. I run one atm, and can pretty much run with EF active all the time. The hardest part for me is getting the targeting so I'm mowing down more than 1 single target.

Now that I'm using the Volley (AotD) from Baba, and that there's really no comparable Heavy or Light Xbow.. I can't see going a different route.

[jskinner937]

it seems like the "endless fusilade" rogue 10, arti 4, fighter 6 build still comes out on top. I run one atm, and can pretty much run with EF active all the time. The hardest part for me is getting the targeting so I'm mowing down more than 1 single target.

Now that I'm using the Volley (AotD) from Baba, and that there's really no comparable Heavy or Light Xbow.. I can't see going a different route.

No need for arty levels at all since endless fusilae an no holds barred are the same. Spend the extra levels in something else...I prefer rogue.

[edgarallanpoe]

No need for arty levels at all since endless fusilae an no holds barred are the same. Spend the extra levels in something else...I prefer rogue.

I take 2 for the runearm. My current build is 18/2 Rogue/Arti with 41 point in inquisitor. I know that taking 4 arti gets you fusillade for the extra 10 ranged power but fletching does the same thing and gets you 80% returning bolts. And IMHO improved evasion from rogue and all the sneak attack damage from the mech tree far outweighs anything 4 levels of arti brings to the table.

[aGarde]

No need for arty levels at all since endless fusilae an no holds barred are the same. Spend the extra levels in something else...I prefer rogue.

The difference is in having T5 rogue vs T5 IQ. You get a lot more DPS from T5 rogue and T4 arti/EF. The IQ bonuses for the most, only apply to H/N Xbows.. not GXbows

If you don't go GXBow.. sure, I can see IQ.. but again, no current bow comes close to the Volley. I would be interested to see if folks found something though, as I think the IQ offers some interesting/fun stuff.

[jskinner937]

The difference is in having T5 rogue vs T5 IQ. You get a lot more DPS from T5 rogue and T4 arti/EF. The IQ bonuses for the most, only apply to H/N Xbows.. not GXbows

If you don't go GXBow.. sure, I can see IQ.. but again, no current bow comes close to the Volley. I would be interested to see if folks found something though, as I think the IQ offers some interesting/fun stuff.

No need for arty at all if you don't use repeaters. T5 Rogue gives you GXB and non-repeater dmg. With INQ tree you maximize your damage by switching to GXB when no holds barred is off timer for max dps. Otherwise you dual wield LXB or HXB to maximize DPS.

[SerPounce]

No need for arty at all if you don't use repeaters. T5 Rogue gives you GXB and non-repeater dmg. With INQ tree you maximize your damage by switching to GXB when no holds barred is off timer for max dps. Otherwise you dual wield LXB or HXB to maximize DPS.

4 arty is the only way to get fusilade AND t5 in something other than inquisitive (e.g. t5 mechanic).

OTOH t5 inquisitive is the only want to get fusilade (NHB) and core5 mechanic.

I can see the attraction of the 18/2 with 41 inquisitive, 31 mechanic, and 8 Harper but that doesn't have enough fusilade charges for my taste. Picking up +3 from BE and +3 from Kensai adds two minutes of machine gun action per rest. Maybe if you don't run reaper raids you can get away with fewer charges, but on say a reaper baba run the build with more fusilade charges is going to be dishing out more total DPS. Although the inquisitive build might do more damage after both have run out of charges if they also keep a dual crossbow option available. Really there seems to be a lot of good option in the viable zone which is a sign of good design. Though time will tell which ones end up being favored.

[slarden]

it seems like the "endless fusilade" rogue 10, arti 4, fighter 6 build still comes out on top. I run one atm,

People that ran tests in the thread referenced earlier claim the opposite. Did you run tests and get different results. they seem to all say 18 rogue with tier 5 IQ wins.

[Pilgrim1]

Damage analysis:
(skip to bottom to avoid numbers)

Gear (same as in the https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ing-Fusilade):
Silent avenger + adherent of the mist sets

Ranged Power:
no enhancement standing: 125
Blitz: +70
deadly rain: + 20
Inquisitor capstone + T5: + 35
Mechanic t4: +10
Total (18/2 build): 260

Double Shot:
No Enhancement standing: 49
Inquisitor: +10 (15 with xbow)

Base Damage
34 : int mod
17 : know the angles
21 : Deadly
15 : weapon bonus
04 : Filigrees
02 : Past lives (varies)
02 : Aborea
95 : Gear subtotal

09 : Enhancements
05 : xbow only enhancements
05 : Legendary Dreadnought

Weapon damage with PBS and combat archery
87 : Volley
54 : Morning lord heavy xbow

Total:
196 : Volley
168 : ML

Crit profile:
14-18x4, 19-20x6 : Volley
15-18x3, 19-20x5 : ML

Seeker
06 : LD
02 : filigrees
17 : gear
25 : total

Damage:
Volley
1: Miss
2-13: 196
14-18: 884
19-20: 1320
average: 470
with RP : 1694/hit

Morning lord heavy xbow:
1: miss
2-14: 168
15-18: 579
19-20: 965
average: 321
with RP : 1157/hit

Added on damage:
13 : rune arm dmg (200% scale)
4.5 : quiver damage
~5 : holy burst
~17 : embodiment of law (feat, 100% scale)
~2 : holy strike
12d6: Sneak attack (150% scale)
5d6: SA enhancements
35: SA gear
63: Law on your side (200% scale, no great xbow)

Scale assumptions:
200% scale means that 260 ranged power turns into 520 ranged power.

11: non scaling
61: 100% scale
463: 150% scale
80: 200% scale

615: subtotal
390: Law on your side

Total per hit:
2309 : volley
2162 : ML


Attack rate from my previous findings ( https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6203444)

NHB greater xbow - 66 bolts/20 seconds.
NHB xbow -70 bolts/20 seconds.*
haste boost xbow -58 bolts/20 seconds.
attack boost xbow -48 bolts/20 seconds.

Final damage per second (counting double shot) over 20 seconds:
12,100 NHB Volley
12,400 NHB Mornlord xbow
10,300 Haste boost ML xbow
8,000 no boost ML xbow

--------------------------------------------------
Conclusions and thoughts:
* With the 18 rogue/2 arti split there is no DPS gain in running volley over a ML xbow.
* There is surprisingly little gain in DPS going from haste boost to No Holds Barred (~20%).
* Volley is a raid weapon, i expect a small increase in DPS when we have access to a raid xbow.
* Having played with this set-up I am surprised with the results, it feels like volley does more damage during a NHB charge then my morning lord weapon. That could be because I do not have any filigrees in my ML xbow.
* Volley's identity crises (salt) and fetters of unreality (vulnerability) where not counted in these numbers. Salt vs trash is so important and vulnerability vs bosses are so key abilities that just the flat damage from these weapons does not show the added utility of volley.

Note: forgot to add in the 18d6 added damage to ML xbow, o well.