U42 Preview 2: Named Loot

[Mellkor]

I vote doubleshot in Helm (since it replaces the none Raid helm) and Ins. Doubleshot on the Bracers.


I agree!

[Saekee]

One thing great about DDO is that almost all the content is playable thanks to TRing and also due to the many unique and interesting items scattered throughout all the content. The recent balancing of end-game raids to try and make all the raids and items worthwhile was a great change.

However the Sharn item power creep seems to be taking a step backwards in this regard. Power creep tends to push out older content and items. Is this intentional? What is the reasoning?

I think power creep is unhealthy for a game because the players tend to only do the latest ~10 quests or latest ~2 raids for the newest and best items while ignoring most everything else. This can become very boring very quick.

If you can think of any ways to make the new items interesting and unique without strictly a power increase I would prefer it. Thanks for reading.

I agree with the consensus that increasing all the numbers over the current end game gear (e.g. stats going from 20 to 21) is really unnecessary. We're already getting a ton of power increase with the effect consolidation. Increasing the numbers on top of that is guilding the lilly. You don't need to include that kind of vertical power creep to make people want this stuff.

Yes, true as i said earlier, the power level should be maxed out at Stats +20 from raid gear ect. like RL. (maybe +22 from Artifacts if limited to one per Toon)

Its sad to see Lyn put in so much efford into reviving the older raids like DoJ, MoD, etc. redoing and updating all those items and now make it obsolete by turning up the power level even more than RL did. Some of the old items were just been made interesting again for some builds, but are out of endgame power range again now.

So it seems like its good night again for the raiding scene soon.

/signed. These folks are thinking big picture. The folks applauding and suggsting even more buffed gear are short-sightedly thinking only of their own little toon.

I bet the pre-orders sold fine even before loot power creep was offered. You are invalidating packs from before ravenloft by now. If you are thinking profits you want players drawn to all the packs, not just the lastest. Yes if ring up a big debt you can push an economy but it will eventually catch up to you; similarly you are creating a kind of debt in the way you are rapidly outpacing previous offerings.

[Alcides]

Please consider the following as final set bonuses for these two sets as all other sets have been assigned stats.

Set 1 (Tank Focused) - Guardian of the Gates:
Set Bonus: +10% Armor Class, +7/15 PRR, +17/+35 MRR, +2/+4 Con, 75% Threat Generation

Set 2 (Melee DPS) - Part of the Family:
Set Bonus: +10/15% Doublestrike, +10/25 Melee Power, +5/15% Helpless Dmg, +5/10% Fortification Bypass, +2/+4 Strength, +2/+4 Dexterity

[Akoriv]

The Cornerstone Champion Raid Belt
Minimum Level: 29

• (QUALITY STR, DEX, WIS +5)
• Reinforced Fists/Higher Tier Reinforced Fists
• Melee Alacrity +15%
• Accuracy +34

Moonrise Bracers Bracers
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Enhanced Ki +1/+3
• Balanced Ki Strike: When you activate your Light-Light-Light or Dark-Dark-Dark Finishing Move, you benefit from increased Melee Power for a short time.
• Reinforced Fists/Greater Reinforced Fists
• Concentration +16/+22

Okay, you did this in Ravenloft and you're doing it here.

Why add a higher tier reinforced fists to a raid item that is clearly desirable to many classes, when you already have it on a Monk specific item?

That belt should be great for any melee whether DPS or Tank but the Superior Reinforced Fists are completely useless if you are not a monk.

Can't you just give the Monk specific bracer Superior Reinforced Fists and put something useful to all melee on the belt?

Quality Seeker
Legendeary Level Lifeshield
Extended Unsciousness
Protection
Psychic Ward

I'm sure there are other things that could be useful to any and all melees.

[btolson]

Further power creep on stats should not occur until gear has an ML of 30

If these MLs stay at 29, then they should Ravenloft power values

[Dreppo]

The Cornerstone Champion

Raid Belt

Minimum Level: 29

• (QUALITY STR, DEX, WIS +5)
• Threat Reduction +62
• Melee Alacrity +15%
• Accuracy +34

Please, please move Threat Reduction here. This is a very important stat to many "light melee" builds who don't want aggro, and you just removed it from Hammerfist. And it's a difficult stat to find. The Reinforced Fists that was present on this item just isn't needed, as it is available on the monk-centric Moonrise Bracers or from any number of other sources. Other posters have also called for Reinforced Fists to be removed from this item. Seems like a great way to solve two problems in one swift move.

[janave]

yup drop keen on the longbow for better crit profile please

As for the calculations for keen v better critical profile without keen. Remember you can add improved critical ranged feat then too as mentioned.

19-20 x 3 via bow having keen is not improvable by having the feat, which is against all weapon focused build principles. and would mean going from 8 (when you can take imp crit feat(I think))-29 with the feat to be specced correctly then have the feat do nothing at end game.... that does seem odd to me.

And yeah the +2w is a thing but seeker and extra critical damage and on critical effects are also a thing.

The 2W is nice and probably worth and effect slot, but yea there is very little reason to use a single bow, we could not save a feat with this, thats a DPS loss when swapping to other weapons, DR breakers, 3pos, CC bow, debuffers, etc..

Having IC:X feats on set accessory items that are hard glued on the endgame layout would be preeeeetty great however. Not sure if the W bonuses could still be translated on the weapon, probably dicey, maybe similar to the Cannith Infusion could grant on damage % to increase W on weapon by a temp buff.

The problem with bows specifically is it being a 2Handed weapon with single handed treatment from all sources, so making all 4 effect slots count would be ideal. All other ranged styles may equip an offhand, which grants 4 effects +2 augments to carry must have effects, and potentially free up an entire item slot! This could be a raid item anywhere else on your item layout, at levels 29-30 an extra item slot is HUGE!

Even if you get only +2-3 more effects on the offhand with utility for your build, that is still 2-3 more you will never get on a bow.

TLDR; Every time an effect added to a bow that might as well be on an accessory you actually nerf the weapon vs other ranged options even more so it is already proxy nerfed.

[noinfo]

Power creep is inevitable and newer content should have better gear than before. I think resting on our laurels will kill the game due to the ensuing boredom. Now how much power creep is too much I dont know, but with Sharn essentially having Reaper v2.0 better gear options is necessary. Also allowing players to choose a stat or two makes itemization easier since it opens up more compelling choices. I think Lynnabel has it right except for some of the artifact sets missing stat bonuses. The tank set should have bonus con and the melee set should have bonus STR and dex since the other sets have stat bonuses or the set stat bonuses to all the new sets should be removed entirely. Either option keeps the playing field more level.

Its not resting on our laurels at all. Different is not more powerful, variation does not have to mean more power. Invalidating old content will kill the game its that simple and if the gear you get from other raids is not worthwhile why run it? raid runes are not useful, some threads maybe.

The loot did not have to be inflated to be interesting, variation in itemization will do that. Minor Artifacts would be the only exception as they are a new concept and limited by 1 per character. That should have been the limit of the power creep.

Now I am not having a go at lyn over the design. It has been years since I saw this amount of interactions with devs around loot, probably at the time they revamped SSS. There are certainly some things I wish were different however the thing I think needs to be addressed most but just wont happen is the inflation.

If they do go ahead with this it would be nice to have a way to upgrade the stats from the other end game areas to current stats by some method, and keep this new pack as cap for future. This would let those who want to upgrade their old gear do so but those who run the new stuff are likely to get instant gratification of the inflated gear. (not my first preference but far more preferable than letting Ravenloft etc die)

[Akoriv]

The Cornerstone Champion

Raid Belt

Minimum Level: 29

• (QUALITY STR, DEX, WIS +5)
• Threat Reduction +62
• Melee Alacrity +15%
• Accuracy +34

Please, please move Threat Reduction here. This is a very important stat to many "light melee" builds who don't want aggro, and you just removed it from Hammerfist. And it's a difficult stat to find. The Reinforced Fists that was present on this item just isn't needed, as it is available on the monk-centric Moonrise Bracers or from any number of other sources. Other posters have also called for Reinforced Fists to be removed from this item. Seems like a great way to solve two problems in one swift move.

Of the belts in this xpac, it is currently the only one that is non-caster and not a duplicate of the abilities on the armors.

Threat Reduction would make the belt useless for a tank.

[Yamani]

Of the belts in this xpac, it is currently the only one that is non-caster and not a duplicate of the abilities on the armors.

Threat Reduction would make the belt useless for a tank.

It's also the only item with quality dex.

[Elearim]

yup drop keen on the longbow for better crit profile please

As for the calculations for keen v better critical profile without keen. Remember you can add improved critical ranged feat then too as mentioned.

Yes, i know, i didnt calculate the feat nor the enhanced crit profile from the feat, since they are just the same benefit (which will actually drop all my calculated %Values a bit)

19-20 x 3 via bow having keen is not improvable by having the feat, which is against all weapon focused build principles. and would mean going from 8 (when you can take imp crit feat(I think))-29 with the feat to be specced correctly then have the feat do nothing at end game.... that does seem odd to me.

Yes, but that is asuming you dont use a keen weapon before level 29 and the feat still is interesting for weapon swaps etc. Why your insisting on the keen aspect of the enhancement? Imagine you get an enhacement, that states +13 Base Weapon damage, whould you consider this a wasted enhancement slot? or find it any superior than keen because it doesnt make your feat useless on this specific weapon? Because that is what the 2 extra Dice actually do, they increase the Base dmg of the weapon by +13 before you had 5(1d8+2) = 32.5 Average and now you have 7(1d8+2) = 45.5 Average which is +13 Base dmg on every hit.
And this is something that actually does help in high reaper very much, because almost all extra dmg weapon enchantments (like Holy9, Acid9,...) do drop to 1 (or very low values) in high reaper, only the base dmg of your weapon will still do some dmg.

And yeah the +2w is a thing but seeker and extra critical damage and on critical effects are also a thing.

To increase your dps the same +13 using Seeker you whould need Seeker +65 (with a crit profile of 19-20/x3) since Seeker only applies to the 10% crits you hit. Altho this leaves out the enhancement of the crit confirmation.

The problem with bows specifically is it being a 2Handed weapon with single handed treatment from all sources, so making all 4 effect slots count would be ideal. All other ranged styles may equip an offhand, which grants 4 effects +2 augments to carry must have effects, and potentially free up an entire item slot! This could be a raid item anywhere else on your item layout, at levels 29-30 an extra item slot is HUGE!

This on the other Hand is really a huge disadvantage bows do have. Altho to equip an offhand with a Crossbow needs an Arti split, because were talking Runearms here. This is not the case for Thrower Builds, Casters etc. tho. But that doesnt work on Bows and for Casters the 2H Weapon (Quaterstaff) does have more Enhancements than the single handed Weapons to compensate this (and still most Casters use two single handed weapons/Orbs and not the Quaterstaff). So the Dice Load for Longbows actually should be doubled like on other 2H Weapons.

But that is only my thinking and reasoning and were really going off topic here

[Elearim]

I hate to beat a dead horse, but I'm really curious if developers realize that it is kind of a major design issue when the main stat boost item and new minor artifact (Ws necklace) doesn't allow one to use the intended 3-piece druid set from the same expansion! I went back and checked the other 3-piece sets and likely associated minor artifact (ie Con artifact for Tanks, Str artifact for melee DPS, etc), and the druid issue is unique, which will result in a considerable relative decrease in ability of this class to keep up relative to other classes (more than currently). Will someone please acknowledge this and comment from the developer side, how this came to be and if it can/will be rectified. Maybe I'm biased, but this degree of internal inconsistency among the equipment of a single expansion seems like a larger problem then making minor changes so an item in this expansion is less redundant with Eq. from other expansions, and yet I see those changes being implemented all over the this thread.

Not really unique, there is the same problem with the Assasin Raid Neclace from the dps Set and the dps INT Artifact.

Best solution in my opinion whould be to just make all Artifacts Rings, first you can equip two rings, second there isnt any set, that has a ring as part of the set iirc.

[jimcricket]

"To increase your dps the same +13 using Seeker you would need Seeker +65 (with a crit profile of 19-20/x3) since Seeker only applies to the 10% crits you hit. Altho this leaves out the enhancement of the crit confirmation."

Only that's not what I said is it? I said seeker and extra critical damage and effects.

Your base damage as from main stat etc is also boosted so over 65 at end game with that and seeker and all other damage boosts yeah np at all.

and 10% really? you make odd end game bow users.


I get crits on 15-20 with the style of bows i use, so 30% threat range, and many boosts effects that add to that, and many effects and abilities also expand on that further like sniper shot, also add to that the stuff that adds to multiplier.

I guess we cant all have the bow we want, but I wanted an expanded crit range bow at end game for a while. we have had plenty of naff bow of late and some even with keen.

I agree with janave that longbows seem to get bad treatment regarding 1 handed weapon v 2 handed weapon. and also agree that its a loss to have effects on the bow we can get elsewhere.

[kain741]

I did mean gloves, yes.

I'm not sure this is a good idea. While looking forward to reworking threat for tanks you will find this a substantially more difficult task with all the top end dps not being able to fit in threat reduction. I thought it was a great move including in the DPS set as it worked it into everybody's build. I think now if people have to choose between a small incremental damage boost or threat reduction they will by default choose dps boost as that is the essence of their character. I would strongly urge you to reconsider this as this should be innately included in all DPS builds. If someone is trying to hate tank with the DPS set then this is one of those times they will have to make a hard decision is they want more threat or DPS....

[Cantor]

Glittering Waistwrap Belt
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Charisma +8/+21
• Bluff +16/+22
• Anthem
• Anthem Resonance: If you have equipped 3 or more copies of anthem, your inspire courage has +1 more attack and damage

I'm cool with the idea of anthem resonance, but anthem and anthem resonance should be 1 effect not count as two.

[droid327]

I'm cool with the idea of anthem resonance, but anthem and anthem resonance should be 1 effect not count as two.

I'd hazard to guess that Anthem Resonance needs an actual Anthem effect for the item itself to count for one towards the three. Allowing Resonance to count both itself OR Anthem towards the three might be a "DDO lights itself on fire and jettisons itself into the sea" kinda situation

[Lynnabel]

I'd hazard to guess that Anthem Resonance needs an actual Anthem effect for the item itself to count for one towards the three. Allowing Resonance to count both itself OR Anthem towards the three might be a "DDO lights itself on fire and jettisons itself into the sea" kinda situation

Plot twist, the entire idea behind Anthem Resonance is causing DDO to light itself on fire and jettison itself into the sea, so it and the U40 necklace are getting a hot redesign as they both currently will literally never work. This is a serious shame, as I loved the idea, but unless something wild happens it's not technically feasible.

The belt now gives +3 PRR to Inspire Greatness (the AoE group buff) instead of its original Anthem Resonance effect no matter how many sources of Anthem you have, and the trinket will grant you Sonic Spell Power/Spell Lore if... uh... hmm... let me do some quick math, it might be possible to scale this off of your Effective Bardic Music level the same way Song Duration scales.

Wow, looks like the Elyd Charm is still using a placeholder icon, too. I'm going to swap it to the real deal right now, that looks terrible.

[Elearim]

Only that's not what I said is it? I said seeker and extra critical damage and effects.

sure, if were talking multiple enhancements, i just compared one enhancement (Keen V) to another (Seeker), of course if you compare Keen to multiple other enhancements or some stipulated new one which is a combination of several others like Seeker+Heartseeker+?? Keen is bound to be worse. And sure with a 30% Crit rate Heartseeker is a very powerfull Enhancement HS VI is 17.5 more dps and HS VII (whould be the next step) whould be 20.25 more.

and 10% really? you make odd end game bow users.
I get crits on 15-20 with the style of bows i use, so 30% threat range, and many boosts effects that add to that, and many effects and abilities also expand on that further like sniper shot, also add to that the stuff that adds to multiplier.

That is using Pinion and 12+ Level of Ranger i guess. I myself went for the crit Multiplier and Doubleshot. Having 97% standing Doubleshot and 19-20/x7 standing Crit Profile. With all temp Buffs (Fury Shot, Aimed Shot etc.) coming on top. But even with a 15-20 Threat Range its still Seeker +38, since the +13 from Keen V are multiplied on Crits as well, you need to hit very high with seeker to compensate for the +13 on the 65% non crits (5% always miss on 1).

I guess we cant all have the bow we want, ...
I agree with janave that longbows seem to get bad treatment regarding 1 handed weapon v 2 handed weapon. and also agree that its a loss to have effects on the bow we can get elsewhere.

I think here we all have a consensus

[GramercyRiff]

Is there a way to adjust how threat works in such a way as for it to never have to be slotted onto an item? It's got to be the most unfun thing anyone could slot into an item.

[Noircere]

Is there a way to adjust how threat works in such a way as for it to never have to be slotted onto an item? It's got to be the most unfun thing anyone could slot into an item.

Threat gain/reduction would make a fantastic new augment gem series.