U42 Preview 2: Named Loot

[SerPounce]

This conversation is highlighting the problem with the whole approach of class/archetype sets handpicked by the devs with exactly what that archetype wants. DDO just has too many viable ways to build a character for this kind of gear specialization. If you have a set specifically for light armored melee dps, then medium and heavy armor want one also, but some some want doublestrike while others cleave a lot so don't value it, some want tactics (but which one?) others only dps, some want SA and hide some don't, some want positive healing amp, some repair or even negative etc, etc, etc. Then the ranged DPS wants specific sets for their needs (in the armor type they want to use), and the mitigation tanks, and avoidance tanks, the tanky casters, and the pure DC casters, the enchantment bards, and the melee bards, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. How far does it go? We're already seeing the lobby for melee warforged healing amp builds. Can't leave them out. Do we need a set for the charisma based medium armored vistani fvs that uses mass command (enchantment) for CC?

3.5 D&D itemization worked in a highly customizable system because items weren't designed for hyper-specialized build/archetypes. A gauntlet of ogre strength +6 was desirable to a huge number of characters. It wasn't a barbarian item or a melee cleric item or monk item, but it would likely be valued by all. You get a few items that are arcane specific, or divine specific, or seem roguish, but for the most part items were generic and worked well for many characters. DDO used to feel the same way. Then at some point items started to feel more like they were designed specifically for certain builds/classes/archtypes. And inevitably when one build got a specific item people who played other builds feel left out and want "their item." And if they don't get it then "the devs hate [my build]."

I know this isn't specific actionable advice, and the approach of sharn gear isn't going to fundamentally going to change, it's just food for thought. For actionable advice I guess I agree with the posters saying there should be a light armored dc caster set. Once you've gone this far down the road of giving every popular build exactly what they want then why should they be left out? Good luck giving out interesting items in the packs after Sharn though when everyone already has their perfect set with everything they want.

[thunir]

Is the Base damage rating capped at 100?

[img] https://imgur.com/a/UOGrz39 [/img]

[Lynnabel]

Good luck giving out interesting items in the packs after Sharn though when everyone already has their perfect set with everything they want.

This is precisely what we are trying to avoid, and why we didn't release roughly 20 sets to cover 90% of the playstyles in one go. There's a lot of room for fun and interesting niche between the bsae fundamentals in this suite without overloading you guys. We on the development team spend a lot of time thinking about the long term, and this is part of that.

[Aelonwy]

You misunderstand me -

There's no way I can respond to the above without pointing at post 148 and saying that is NOT AT ALL how that post came across.

Regardless, I doubt you have misunderstood me. Light armored caster was a glaring over sight from the beginning and anything more I can't say without breaking something I'd rather not. But at this point in the development process of the content I can certainly accept that:

we're way past the point where I can fit in a Light Armor Casting Set in this current release without further overloading the treasure tables

[SerPounce]

This is precisely what we are trying to avoid, and why we didn't release roughly 20 sets to cover 90% of the playstyles in one go. There's a lot of room for fun and interesting niche between the bsae fundamentals in this suite without overloading you guys. We on the development team spend a lot of time thinking about the long term, and this is part of that.

That's good to hear, and I believe you when you say that. It just seems weird when I read through this thread and gear design changes are being tossed around like candy at a parade to posters lobbying for their preferred playstyle. When some people catch the candy and other don't, and it all seems kind of arbitrary, hurt feelings seem inevitable. If gearing didn't feel so targeted at certain builds then I don't think people would feel so invested in what is coming out, and so frustrated when they don't get stuff for their build. I don't want to come to Lamania threads and lobby for items that help builds I like to play, which is probably why I made such a ham-handed effort at it, but I also don't want to get left out.

I hope that all the changes and design decisions here are being made because that gear is reasonable and balanced, not not just because a vocal poster early in the thread asked for it and it didn't go against one of a handful of design imperatives from on high. Don't forget that it's the builds that are already the strongest that are going to have the most people showing up to lobby for them because those are the builds that vocal powergamers play.

You guys are doing a great job, and I appreciate all the effort you and the team are putting into this. I apologize for getting sarcastic earlier, that's not how I want to approach this.

[Lynnabel]

There's no way I can respond to the above without pointing at post 148 and saying that is NOT AT ALL how that post came across.

Wow, we certainly broke 300 posts very quickly, heh.

When I wrote that we want to enforce some actual relationship between armor and effectiveness for spellcasting, I meant it. If you'll notice, the armor sets that allow for heavier armor have lower and more restricted casting stats in their set bonus and on their items as compared to the robes set. It would be a disservice to Light to throw it with Medium and Heavy as Lights lack of defenses compared to Heavy/Medium would afford it higher efficiency - and also make no sense at all thematically.

Of the three sets, one is Lightning and robot themed (not bards or warlocks), one is holy fire themed (not bards and it matches the ES tree but if you guys wanted to use the ES tree you'd be in Medium anyway so there's no downside to just using this set as it stands), and one is Druid Casting themed (definitely not Warlock related and last I checked Bards don't turn into elementals anywhere in their kit :P).

We can't fit every playstyle, and that's just the actual truth. Of the 7 sets we tried to paint a broad brush, and it's inevitable that we can't please everyone. There's room for some niche sets in future releases and I am okay with that, it leaves us room to give some fun and specific toys to tight playstyle niches without being so broad that every build wears the same fancy clothes.

[Lynnabel]

not not just because a vocal poster early in the thread asked for it and it didn't go against one of a handful of design imperatives from on high.

If there's one thing you can count on me to do, as this thread may have shown you, it's telling you guys "no" when I need to.

[Kenpai]

we're way past the point where I can fit in a Light Armor Casting Set in this current release without further overloading the treasure tables (something that has historically caused a lot of frustration, especially in Raids).

Probably because treasure tables are STILL filled with 2-5 different armor types with the exact same stats on each piece, rather than say...


Would shift Gone from the Family from 5 different droppable armors to one droppable ingredient, and turn parties of "Anyone ever plan on making a WF character in the next decade? 3 of these garbo docents dropped. Nobody? Sentient food then?" into parties of "Hey, anyone planning on making a build that can use this set?" "Oh hey yeah, I need to put it on Medium Armor next life, I'll roll on it."

[Satyriasys]

Wizards wear robes in Dungeons & Dragons. I know there are exceptions but if they do away with all restrictions everyone in the game will be wearing heavy armor. Best in slot should always follow specific archetypes. Every MMO becomes so homogeneous after awhile race and class become irrelevant. I don't know why people are advocating for that but the novelty wears off quickly.

[Yamani]

A quiver named trash can feels like a missed opportunity this time around. Just holds more types of arrows...

[Wanatuc]

Collective Sight Goggles
Minimum Level: 15/29
(STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA +5/21)
(INSIGHT STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA +3/10)
Quality Resistance+1/+4
Temperance of Belief: +1 Insightful MRR per Religious Lore

The STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA, should be +8 on the level 15 item right??

[Propane]

We can't fit every playstyle, and that's just the actual truth. Of the 7 sets we tried to paint a broad brush, and it's inevitable that we can't please everyone.

Consider the Gianthold armor style... A set of "stats" that were common in one family (color) but had every type of armor in the family. You already have the "families" layed out...

[Lanttanno]

Could you consider adding draconic reinvigoration to weapons? My suggestion would be the quest light crossbow not the raid one. Means that even if you have the raid crossbow which is better dps, gives you something to swap to if you run out of action boosts (or put it on both? )

Even better if you can add it to an item slot. Maybe on one item per dps set? Speaking as a solo player, I would really love for them to not be raid limited but I understand if it needs to be.

Also can the dust be added to a limited number of non-raid weapons? Obviously I would prefer crossbow but whatever weapons it's on I'll be happy. It's not that I don't want to run raids they are just not really feasible to run in Australia with limited time. Never pugs available and I've never been able to find a group or guild that runs raids consistently in my time zone.

[HastyPudding]

I'm so done with this thread, now.

[Arkat]

Wizards wear robes in Dungeons & Dragons. I know there are exceptions but if they do away with all restrictions everyone in the game will be wearing heavy armor. Best in slot should always follow specific archetypes. Every MMO becomes so homogeneous after awhile race and class become irrelevant. I don't know why people are advocating for that but the novelty wears off quickly.

They shouldn't have added Eldritch Knight (EK) into the game if all Wizards were going to be limited to robes.

Expecting a caster-focused light armor is not unreasonable in light of the existence of the EK.

[J-mann]

What players want is sometimes different than what players need for the long term. We could absolutely release itemization that perfectly fits together with no holes and has every stat in its place plus some special sauce on top, and... then what? Release the same items again but with higher numbers? Gross. There is only so much design space in DDO and we can't blow through all of it for a single release. DDO's future is far too exciting to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. The last time we crept into that area it caused itemization problems for years. I'm willing to work with you guys - I think the success of this thread and the preview 1 thread speak to that - but part of that is understanding that sometimes with suggestions I am going to say no.



This is something I specifically am looking for suggestions on how to fix. If you have anything concrete to suggest please let me know. I want them to feel awesome and if they don't there's still time to shape em up.

Lynn, Stat damage was made utterly useless in epics long ago when the devs had the insane idea to give mobs a restoration every few seconds. To compound the issue, you all still have not fixed the reaper rounding to zero nonsense. A player ability or attack shouldnt round to zero due to reaper, 1 should be the minimum period. So unless you fix the fact that stat damage is beyond worthless it should never, ever appear as an affix on any weapon.

[majikpaul]

If there's one thing you can count on me to do, as this thread may have shown you, it's telling you guys "no" when I need to.

Throwing Daggers? I've asked quite a few times. Can you increase the base damage so that they are competitive with shuriken and we have a viable alternative to shurikens concerning thrower builds? If not then why not just stop making them? Or at least stop making them as raid weapons. If they are not going to be viable end game weapons they are just diluting the raid loot table

[J-mann]

I have no idea what you want me to do. If you have any concrete, constructive feedback, please let me know so you can help contribute.

Make 2hers that are comperable to the 1 handers available? Also note that 2 handers take 2 slots and might need more affixes than 1 handers especially since yall are handing out ones that are not just direct damage anymore. For example a 2wf can equip BOTH a vulnerability stacker AND a -prr stacker. 2hers are not capable of this because they get 2+ less affixes than weilding 2 weapons do. But then again players have been beating that horse for a long time.

Also getting on a systems dev to fix 2hf which we have been asking for for, well a long time now, would be nice. Heres some items for them: cleaves dont double strike, and are not affected by haste buffs. glancing blows are not affected by helplessness, cannot crit, do not get near the 80+% extra you get from off hands, and get torn apart by reaper debuffs and cannot dstrike.

[J-mann]

The Raid ones are the ones I am specifically really interested in making sure pop. Right now I've got a line on a lot of fun new effects and I am aiming for one fun/interesting/unique proc per weapon.



DDO would light itself on fire and jettison itself out to sea.



I can make a Legendary Nightshade Venom for the 29 version. I think Con on hit is a little underrated, especially with a fast proc rate. YMMV.

Not really lynn, stat damage is pretty worthless in epics due to epic ward giving mobs a restoration every few seconds and reaper penalties reducing stat damage to zero. There is a reason stat damage has not been used at all since MoTU.

[btolson]

Of the three sets, one is Lightning and robot themed (not bards or warlocks), one is holy fire themed (not bards and it matches the ES tree but if you guys wanted to use the ES tree you'd be in Medium anyway so there's no downside to just using this set as it stands), and one is Druid Casting themed (definitely not Warlock related and last I checked Bards don't turn into elementals anywhere in their kit :P).

If you guys are going to go this specific on sets, then you shouldn't be one-upping Ravenloft. Back the power down to be equal to RL, and we're all good. Leave it as it is, and obviously people are going to be disappointed that you focused narrow instead of wide because they'll feel obligated to try and upgrade even if they're just a generalist wizard due to the powercreep. It'll be the better part of a year before the next sets are released, you guys are way too slow to combine powercreep with narrow appeal.