U42 Preview 2: Named Loot

[slarden]

I keep hearing you either have evasion or MRR which isn't true. Evasion does nothing if you have a bad reflex save.

There are really three forms of magic mitigation

1) Improved Evasion (half damage on failed save, no damage when making a save)
2) Reflex save (full damage on a failed save, half damage when making a save or no damage when making a save with evasion)
3) MRR

There are cases where only MRR works. On a wizard I am likely to take insightful reflexes to boost my reflex save for magic mitigation and stay in a robe. On a warlock my reflex saves are much worse so I'll burn a feat for medium armor proficiency instead.

If you make your reflex save you are reducing most magic damage by 50% right from the start before MRR.

In general I think raising MRR cap is the wrong solution. If there are quests/raids where un-evadable damage one-shots people in robes that have a good reflex save - it's a design issue because monks can't be centered in anything else. If damage can be mitigated by MRR or reflex save - it's a player problem - you have to get more hp or invest in something.

[HastyPudding]

We're not going to do that, sorry. I know you guys want it, but the answer is no.

What we can do is release sets in the future that fit the niches you guys are looking for. A set designed specifically for hybrid casting/attacking/healing like Bards, or for a more sustained and tanky casting like Warlocks. Those sets will not be as purely offensively focused like Esoteric, but they'll fit the areas you'd like to see. They are also a lot easier for us to control and balance instead of throwing more and more armor options into a sufficiently more open ecosystem than Ravenloft's.

Spellsinger bards are not offensive powerhouses by any measure of the word (whether melee or pure caster) and to think so is laughable. Tanky warlocks probably aren't even going to use the Esoteric set, they'll probably enjoy the Arcsteel, Hruit's, or even the Flamecleansed sets more (no ES warlock is going to wear robes, sorry, that's utterly nerfing their PRR/MRR for very little gain). The Esoteric set doesn't even look like an offensive set, it seems to be aimed more at DC casters (wizards, bards, and warlocks), not offensive/damage casters.

I think your idea of a tradeoff is flawed and skewed in one direction, but whatever.

[Lynnabel]

Spellsinger bards are not offensive powerhouses by any measure of the word (whether melee or pure caster) and to think so is laughable.

It is not the job of itemization to fix class/archetype balance. Problems like that can not and will not ever be solved by itemization, it needs to be solved at its source. If we follow this road, as we have done many times over our years on this project, it will make fixing the real problem that much harder. Going down this path is an endless road that leads nowhere but madness.

[HastyPudding]

It is not the job of itemization to fix class/archetype balance. Problems like that can not and will not ever be solved by itemization, it needs to be solved at its source. If we follow this road, as we have done many times over our years on this project, it will make fixing the real problem that much harder.

Nobody in this thread is even remotely asking you to make spellsinger bards offensive powerhouses.......50-70 spellpower and some spell lore is not going to make shout, greater shout, soundburst, sonic blast, or reverberate do any meaningful damage. Nor should it, as a spellsinger bard is based on support, not offense.

We're just asking you to not nerf their already meager defenses and force them to do things that run contrary to the entire point of being a supportive caster in order to use new items. MRR looks to be very important in Sharn, and removing it from sets that help supportive casters is a horrific idea. We're asking to keep the status quo.

[TheMaxpower]

I mean, I could take the option away. I dunno. I figured it'd be better to include Sonic rather than... not have it? I guess?



We're not going to do that, sorry. I know you guys want it, but the answer is no.

What we can do is release sets in the future that fit the niches you guys are looking for. A set designed specifically for hybrid casting/attacking/healing like Bards, or for a more sustained and tanky casting like Warlocks. Those sets will not be as purely offensively focused like Esoteric, but they'll fit the areas you'd like to see. They are also a lot easier for us to control and balance instead of throwing more and more armor options into a sufficiently more open ecosystem than Ravenloft's.

Why would you ignore what the players want, especially when what we are asking for is very reasonable and makes a lot of sense? I know it will require some additional work, but the end product of Sharn will be much better off. Anyway, I think I am done reviewing items and providing feedback.

[Aelonwy]

What we can do is release sets in the future that fit the niches you guys are looking for. A set designed specifically for hybrid casting/attacking/healing like Bards, or for a more sustained and tanky casting like Warlocks. Those sets will not be as purely offensively focused like Esoteric, but they'll fit the areas you'd like to see.

That, I can accept with less disappointment. Maybe here is a good place to suggest the cosmetic idea I had. I love my little mechanical peacock pet.



But it brought up the issue that I don't really have anything but sort of the High Society cosmetic that come even close to matching the colors of my new pet and it doesn't quite match the style. However, the Pale Violet & Tan Leaf Robe with some recoloring, and the Mysterious Remnant cloak with a different but perhaps solid color would make an admirable match to the style of the Peacock.



https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Myster...loak_shown.jpg

As for matching helm, I can probably just use any gold circlet but a new helm with a matching miniature peacock tail fan on the back would be awesome.

[Vorachtin]

the weapons really look lack luster, I feel no urgency to go get any of them.

More of a sideways push into a large expansion, few stat point bumps. Same gear puzzle with just a few more pieces.

dps casting is garbage at end game so the caster staff is a no brainer weapon food addition.

Havent seen visuals on lam, so hoping for cool art to make up for the overall meh feeling of a giant expansion of loot. Definatley not feeling the wow factor of Ravenloft, could be to early to determine at this point.

[Lynnabel]

Why would you ignore what the players want, especially when what we are asking for is very reasonable and makes a lot of sense?

What players want is sometimes different than what players need for the long term. We could absolutely release itemization that perfectly fits together with no holes and has every stat in its place plus some special sauce on top, and... then what? Release the same items again but with higher numbers? Gross. There is only so much design space in DDO and we can't blow through all of it for a single release. DDO's future is far too exciting to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. The last time we crept into that area it caused itemization problems for years. I'm willing to work with you guys - I think the success of this thread and the preview 1 thread speak to that - but part of that is understanding that sometimes with suggestions I am going to say no.

the weapons really look lack luster, I feel no urgency to go get any of them.

This is something I specifically am looking for suggestions on how to fix. If you have anything concrete to suggest please let me know. I want them to feel awesome and if they don't there's still time to shape em up.

[TheMaxpower]

What players want is sometimes different than what players need for the long term. We could absolutely release itemization that perfectly fits together with no holes and has every stat in its place plus some special sauce on top, and... then what? Release the same items again but with higher numbers? Gross. There is only so much design space in DDO and we can't blow through all of it for a single release. DDO's future is far too exciting to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. The last time we crept into that area it caused itemization problems for years. I'm willing to work with you guys - I think the success of this thread and the preview 1 thread speak to that - but part of that is understanding that sometimes with suggestions I am going to say no.



This is something I specifically am looking for suggestions on how to fix. If you have anything concrete to suggest please let me know. I want them to feel awesome and if they don't there's still time to shape em up.

I'm not sure how adding light armor to a few sets will destroy the future of the game, but whatever. Anyway, thank you for considering my suggestion.

[pjstechie]

What we can do is release sets in the future that fit the niches you guys are looking for. A set designed specifically for hybrid casting/attacking/healing like Bards, or for a more sustained and tanky casting like Warlocks. Those sets will not be as purely offensively focused like Esoteric, but they'll fit the areas you'd like to see. They are also a lot easier for us to control and balance instead of throwing more and more armor options into a sufficiently more open ecosystem than Ravenloft's.

Personally, I’d rather sets on gear that includes armor to be less niche and more choice allowed. Choosing armor classification is way different than choosing other gear slots like a ring because there are factors beyond what’s on them. I think the set breakdown you have in Sharn is a great selection and I’d prefer you either balanced sets/and or armor pieces to allow the inclusion all the armor types or build the niche sets to not include armor.

I’m in favor of variety, but I don’t consider you telling me what kind of armor to wear variety.

Analogy: I go into an ice cream shop with 100 flavors. The clerk asks me what my occupation is and I tell them. The clerk then tells me I can choose one of 3 flavors because those are the flavors approved by management for my occupation and then tells me they are proud of having the most variety of flavors of any ice cream shop.

[Satyriasys]

This is something I specifically am looking for suggestions on how to fix. If you have anything concrete to suggest please let me know. I want them to feel awesome and if they don't there's still time to shape em up.

Can you make an xbow that doesn't use ammo but shoots magical bolts? or would that be a nightmare to code? I like the theme of Hallowed Splinters and thought maybe it could shoot searing lights or nimbus's instead of bolts. Also Nightshade Shooter is pretty underwhelming. Con Damage on hit is not kinda useless, unless maybe it could proc an insta death once their con gets low enough.

[Fivetigers33]

This is something I specifically am looking for suggestions on how to fix. If you have anything concrete to suggest please let me know. I want them to feel awesome and if they don't there's still time to shape em up.

Are there certain weapons in particular you aren't happy with? I've already given my input on the kukri.

What we can do is release sets in the future that fit the niches you guys are looking for. A set designed specifically for hybrid casting/attacking/healing like Bards, or for a more sustained and tanky casting like Warlocks. Those sets will not be as purely offensively focused like Esoteric, but they'll fit the areas you'd like to see. They are also a lot easier for us to control and balance instead of throwing more and more armor options into a sufficiently more open ecosystem than Ravenloft's.

I'm still waiting for Legendary Dragontouched Armor (or a new legendary equivalent). It would solve a lot of problems. One of the upgrades could be making it a piece of any of the existing armor sets (ravenloft/sharn), just like the heroic has with the old raid sets.

[pjstechie]

What players want is sometimes different than what players need for the long term. We could absolutely release itemization that perfectly fits together with no holes and has every stat in its place plus some special sauce on top, and... then what? Release the same items again but with higher numbers? Gross. There is only so much design space in DDO and we can't blow through all of it for a single release. DDO's future is far too exciting to shoot ourselves in the foot like that. The last time we crept into that area it caused itemization problems for years. I'm willing to work with you guys - I think the success of this thread and the preview 1 thread speak to that - but part of that is understanding that sometimes with suggestions I am going to say no

I agree with your concept, but I would say then that your execution should be examined. In both ravenloft and Sharn you have a tank set that only offers heavy armor (I saw someone show me the outfit but it still no light armor option) and a DC caster set that only offers robes. Your initial design of those 2 sets feels like what you just said you don’t want to do, rerelease with higher numbers. FWIW the change in focus to MRR instead of PRR onthe tank set is a good step away from this.

It’s not my personal preference, but based on this quote I would ask where the options for light armor tanks and heavy armor dc casters are?

[Lynnabel]

Are there certain weapons in particular you aren't happy with? I've already given my input on the kukri.

The Raid ones are the ones I am specifically really interested in making sure pop. Right now I've got a line on a lot of fun new effects and I am aiming for one fun/interesting/unique proc per weapon.

Can you make an xbow that doesn't use ammo but shoots magical bolts? or would that be a nightmare to code?

DDO would light itself on fire and jettison itself out to sea.

Also Nightshade Shooter is pretty underwhelming. Con Damage on hit is not kinda useless, unless maybe it could proc an insta death once their con gets low enough.

I can make a Legendary Nightshade Venom for the 29 version. I think Con on hit is a little underrated, especially with a fast proc rate. YMMV.

[CeltEireson]

In case someone hasn't mentioned it already - please don't count material type as one of the enchantments, especially on weapons that are likely to be used by classes that can change the material type using spells.

Secondly please stop adding keen to so many weapons especially in heroic weapons. Any character specialising in a weapon will already have the improved critical feat so its not adding anything at all for them, even for the epics (where I assume its one of the higher tiers of keen giving +2 to W) its not ideal.

And battlemage set - medium armour only has repair amplification? Not all non-warforged artificers take the construct essence route. Can't you make it affect both types?

[Gratch]

Khopesh - Lunar Crescent- Cold Iron, Good damage, Aligned, Vorpal

Any chance for one more property on the Lunar Crescent... aligned, cold-iron, vorpal are all sort of minor effects at cap. Maybe one of the LGS fx or at the minimum some moon light stylin' Radiance (light damage + blind on crits). Well or Keen... but everyone wants Keen on everything - cuz it's good. Or maybe a proc of Howl of Terror (cuz the icon looks like a wolf howling at the moon).

Or some new moon beam proc for all your moon weapons. Light them mobs up with some moon style damage "force blue coloring". Guessing moon beam is partially radiant and partially water with a pinch of force.

Also - it looks like a normal Khopesh... if only there was a thing in the name it could look more like:

[Eldried]

So Im not really happy about the tank set. Losing MRR is bad enough but even the raid helmet Citadel's gaze is REALLY bad. Healers bounty is just to random to help at all and the command bonus to cha skills does NOT stack with the +22 intim competence bonus(which is on the same item). Or make the command stack.

Why make a raid item that is so much worse then the Normal Set item? I know you want to give people options, but this raid helm is just bad.

Plz remove healers bounty and the command and put something useful on it like quality sheltering and ghostly or at least insightful intimidate or make the command stack. Even linguistic would be better.




Another thing: The new Tower Shield The Lunar eclipse: The mirror shield effect is not working(When you block you are supposed to get +50 insightful MRR)



And how about giving the minor artefacts more then 1 possible equipment slot(like slavers)? Always much cooler to have items fit into more then 1 slot.

[Lynnabel]

Losing MRR is bad enough

The set bonus is being changed to being very MRR focused, you are not the only one to miss it and we're making a few drastic changes to alleviate this concern.

Another thing: The new Tower Shield The Lunar eclipse: The mirror shield effect is not working(When you block you are supposed to get +50 insightful MRR)

Fixed, thanks for letting us know.

[Aelonwy]

Light Crossbow - Nightshade Shooter - Poison dmg, Nightshade poison, armor piercing, Con Damage on-hit
Longbow - Twisted Willow - Keen, Elasticity, Poison dmg, Armor piercing
How much Con are we talking here? In epics don't mobs just regenerate stats back pretty fast? And armor piercing is something you generally want on your gear not your weapon.

Quarterstaff - Moonbeam - Impact/Impact V, Doublestrike, Good damage, felling the oak (From walking stick)
I try to have doublestrike on gear not my weapon, also isn't there an issue with doublestrike and glancing blows? Rather than Doublestrike I'd either make this metalline or give it another damage type like Light (Moonbeam).

Dagger - Sunslice - (daggers of the sun and moon) - Light damage, Fire damage, Banishing, Insight Deception (Set Bonus: 1W to your daggers plus some melee power)
Dagger - Moonslice - (daggers of the sun and moon) - negative damage, cold damage, Vorpal, quality deception (Set Bonus: 1W to your daggers plus some melee power)
These seem interesting as is, although I hope the epic variations are at least greater Banishing/Vorpal if not Sovereign.

Sickle - Flicker of the Crescent Moon - Cold damage, bleed, keen, Deception
Meh. Who is using this? Wolf Druid? Its not bad its just uninspiring. Some things immune to bleed, maybe cold vulnerability or slash on crit.

Heavy Repeater - Thundershot - Sonic Dmg, Electric dmg on crit, keen, adamantine
I'd either make the Adamantine -->Metalline or I'd change it entirely to something percussion based. Its so very easy to get adamantine bolts that having this be an enchantment on the weapon is almost insulting.

Great Crossbow - Rumbling Thunder - Sonic Dmg, Electric dmg on crit, vorpal, Bludgeoning Ammunition
Interesting enough. Not everyone has RL or the quiver that makes ammunition bludgeoning.

Shuriken - Arc Ricochet - Sonic, lightning on crit, vorpal, slashing DR break
Never had a shuriken thrower. My opinion wouldn't hold water.

Khopesh - Lunar Crescent- Cold Iron, Good damage, Aligned, Vorpal
Why Aligned? It already breaks good, is there a lore reason? Another effect on this weapon is just material. I could accept Cold Iron, Aligned, Light Damage then it would have a reason for aligned.

Morningstar - Suncrusher - Light damage, Good damage, Aligned, Smiting
Again Aligned with Good, I guess its good for Maruts but other constructs would need Adamantine, I could see Light/Good/Silver/Banishing or Light/Good/Metalline/Banishing but we're already getting a full suite of construct bane weapons. I don't know, its sort of *shrug*

Shortsword - Moonwillow - Keen, Vorpal, Good, Silver
All purpose. Not crazy good but nothing wrong with it. I could see changing it to Keen/Vorpal/Force on crit/Light and giving it that blue weapon aura that's on Skiver. Actually that aura looks like magical Moonlight so it could be good for any of these with Moon-themed names. Would make them popular just for Mirroring.

https://ddowiki.com/page/File:Skiver_shown.jpg

[Alcides]

Collective Sight is not granting Quality MRR based on the Religious lore feats of a Paladin 20. Didn't try Cleric or FVS if that is a different feat per class under the hood.