U42 Preview 2: Named Loot

[Zites]

I’m not even sure what bearing this has on what I said since I’m talking about armor choices relative to a build.

Regardless, I play monk. And paladin. And wizard. Actually, I literally have a character representing every class. Okay sure, maybe I don’t play them all as much as I used to, but I still play a variety.

And okay, I concede, my paladin is currently more artificer than paladin, and I’m not super happy about that, but I think that’s too off topic for this discussion

Hey man I like your show keep up the good work we just disagree cheers!

[SpartanKiller13]

Set 1 (Tank Focused) - Guardian of the Gates:
Set Bonus: +10% Armor Class, +15/30 PRR, +2/5 All Saves, 75% Threat Generation

My only problem with that is I kind of hope to not just make the Ravenloft sets but better numerically. I want them to do different things defensively. Is there some other stat that I could push up instead of MRR?

Healamp? Intimidate? %HP? I'd literally be happier with +2/5 Intimidate than the +saves, and that's IMO a direct downgrade in stat value. However, it would allow me to maintain aggro better when DPS party members don't have enough -threat.

I have ~140 Intimidate every ~5.5 seconds, which means I'm able to maintain aggro up to 5100 allied DPS from an individual (after threat reduction). More Intimidate = more effective DPS.

Healamp would be nice QoL for some instances where you're just soaking heals, but please type it differently than other things (so not Profane/Competence etc).

%HP would be an easier alternative than LGS sets, especially for those trying to get into tanking. Doesn't have to be a huge bonus, but even 10% HP would be a pretty nice chunk.

Piston Boots
Minimum Level: 29

• Strength +22
• Whenever you jump, grants melee power based on a portion of your Jump skill, has an internal cooldown
• Sunder DC's +24
• Stunning DC's +24

This makes me so happy Also now a reason to max Jump instead of aiming for 40. If you want to make me really happy, swap Sunder for a stacking Jump bonus (Profane?) Or at least for Trip (seems to make more sense thematically, at least to me?).

Or better yet give them a clicky like Boots of Propulsion every X time, that'd be super cool as well! I'd vote for every minute given the availability of wings effects, but I don't know if that's acceptable for y'all.

I just feel that Sunder doesn't fit, and there are a lot of cool alternatives available. (Also I don't find Sunder very valuable...)

Edit: Or drop Sunder, and add a Propulsion clicky that grants melee power (based on Jump skill) with a cooldown of 40/60s etc so you can choose utility or DPS (or dash into combat for both). I'm way too excited about this idea lol

[Lynnabel]

Yep there are a few of us pointing this out but she don't want to hear it I don't think.

I don't want to take Repair-themed things off of Docents. I drastically prefer to offer healing amp alternatives so that people who use Docents can choose to use them.

I'm not going to be able to respond to literally every post, and me not responding does not always mean no. Please do not paint me into that corner. I do not want to be forced to either engage with everyone or engage with no one to avoid the fear or expectation that if I do not specifically respond it is an implicit denial. If given that choice, I will choose the latter.

I need coffee :P I'll be at the event tonight from 8-10pm Est if you guys want to talk to me in real time, btw.

[Claver]

No it’s not. In The current game design having your MRR capped at 50 (or 70 with this set) is just not viable specifically because they have intentionally circumvented the alternative mechanics specifically for which there exists an MRR cap. There is a huge difference in survival in killing time and RSO for someone with a 70 MRR and someone with 150. I know because I’ve done both many times.

And hey, there’s lots of solutions here. If heavy armor in this set is too powerful, give me a heavy version that has -10 prr and -2 dcs or something. Or give me a different heavy armor version set. Balance it.


PS: I still want a light/cloth armor tank set. If you are going to tell me variety is spice of life, give me more variety.

Emperors New Clothes Outfit
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Your Magic Resistance Cap is set at 70/140
• Physical Sheltering +19/+54
• This item qualifies for the Guardian's at the Gate set bonus
• This item qualifies for the Part of the Family set bonus

[apep1412]

You're convincing me to completely flip the script. What if the Guardian of the Gates were specifically MRR focused? For example, napkin math - 10% AC, 75% Threat, +35 MRR, +10% Elemental Absorption, +15 PRR (level 29 version, level 15 version will have lower numbers). That makes it a better choice for Magical Damage at the cost of a few PRR. Thoughts?

I know this is going to sound strange, but that seems too powerful. Comparing to Knight of the Shadows, your net gain is 15 MRR, +25% threat, and 10% elemental absorption at the cost of 5 PRR (3 or 1 PRR if you take the amount you get off the armors into consideration).

In my opinion, 35 MRR and 0 PRR would be strong enough.

[Claver]

Seriously, I think I'm onto something. Anti-magic tank set? Anyone? Sound more fun than before?

I like what your cooking. I like more variety rather than better versions of the same. This sounds like fun to me. And I can sign off on the flavor of Sharn having the technology to build some defenses against magic

[Vish]

Ok, based on feedback,
I think you should consider:
Raising the mrr cap on cloth to 100
Raising the mrr cap on light to 150

Seems you are giving us raids with un evadable damage
Since our core abilities are useless,
We are getting killed by broken mechanics
Usually in a loot pass,
You would give us the tools to defeat the content
However, it seems in raids, like killing time, and the new raid, too hot to handle,
You are forcing us to make choices beyond the reasonable
Like chaos damage in killing time, and fire damage in too hot to handle

I play a monk, with mrr cap of 50
Already there is the truth that in order to survive killing time,
You need to slot nystuls filigree in order to survive
That is one way of making us make hard choices
Dps, ie prowess, for defense, ie nystuls
But since evasion is worthless, then you break the build in order to balance content
This seems unfair
Likewise, for wisdoms monks, that new ring artifact, with the 22 wis, ie best in slot,
Was changed from chaos absorption, ie a useful or needed commodity in kt,
To law absorption. What needs law absorbtion?
Seems a direct punt to players trying to overcome the content

So please, don't break our builds in order to challenge us
Consider raising the mrr cap on cloth and light
It will be enough of a challenge to even fill those numbers
Thanks

[Zites]

I don't want to take Repair-themed things off of Docents. I drastically prefer to offer healing amp alternatives so that people who use Docents can choose to use them.

I'm not going to be able to respond to literally every post, and me not responding does not always mean no. Please do not paint me into that corner. I do not want to be forced to either engage with everyone or engage with no one to avoid the fear or expectation that if I do not specifically respond it is an implicit denial. If given that choice, I will choose the latter.

I need coffee :P I'll be at the event tonight from 8-10pm Est if you guys want to talk to me in real time, btw.

Ok that's fair thank you.

[Lynnabel]

I like what your cooking.

Can you smell what the Rock is picking up?

Imo, 35 MRR and 0 PRR would be strong enough.

We'll meet in the middle.

[Ordinary]

Not sure if this has been raised yet as no time to go through the thread.

The Legendary Firestorm Conduit "Firestorm Lore" and "Power of the Firestorm" item descriptions are listed as affecting Cold and Lightning spell power which is the same as the "Creeping Dust" quarterstaff. Shouldn't this be Fire and Lightning?

[kain741]

I know this is going to sound strange, but that seems too powerful. Comparing to Knight of the Shadows, your net gain is 15 MRR, +25% threat, and 10% elemental absorption at the cost of 5 PRR (3 or 1 PRR if you take the amount you get off the armors into consideration).

In my opinion, 35 MRR and 0 PRR would be strong enough.

I disagree as the elemental absorb is multiplicative so only adds an effective .5 to 2% depending on how much you're already wearing. Having lost both AoM and KoS sets the PRR drop would be too much at 0 and 15 seems like a great compromise to get us the MRR that we need.

[HastyPudding]

Ok, based on feedback,
I think you should consider:
Raising the mrr cap on cloth to 100
Raising the mrr cap on light to 150

Seems you are giving us raids with un evadable damage
Since our core abilities are useless,
We are getting killed by broken mechanics
Usually in a loot pass,
You would give us the tools to defeat the content
However, it seems in raids, like killing time, and the new raid, too hot to handle,
You are forcing us to make choices beyond the reasonable
Like chaos damage in killing time, and fire damage in too hot to handle

I play a monk, with mrr cap of 50
Already there is the truth that in order to survive killing time,
You need to slot nystuls filigree in order to survive
That is one way of making us make hard choices
Dps, ie prowess, for defense, ie nystuls
But since evasion is worthless, then you break the build in order to balance content
This seems unfair
Likewise, for wisdoms monks, that new ring artifact, with the 22 wis, ie best in slot,
Was changed from chaos absorption, ie a useful or needed commodity in kt,
To law absorption. What needs law absorbtion?
Seems a direct punt to players trying to overcome the content

So please, don't break our builds in order to challenge us
Consider raising the mrr cap on cloth and light
It will be enough of a challenge to even fill those numbers
Thanks

I'm not sure raising the MRR cap is the way to do it, but it certainly feels like the itemization team and the quest design team didn't communicate at all. The amount of magic damage in some of the new quests (especially the raid) is absolutely insane. I saw monks with 2k+ HP being obliterated in the raid because they're being spammed with unavoidable magic damage.

And I'm with you on the Nystul's filigree set issue. It should be a bonus, but it feels like we're being forced to use a 5 piece filigree set to even just be viable.

[TrueMan54914]

From the Lamannia Preview 2 notes:



I imagine that if Bears would like to focus on Tanking specifically they will use the Guardian of the Gates set, and if they are focusing on Melee DPS they will use the Part of the Family set. If you would like to discuss this specific change I would request that you discuss it in the main preview thread to avoid derailing item feedback, this thread is 10 pages long already and I do not want to miss anything



You're convincing me to completely flip the script. What if the Guardian of the Gates were specifically MRR focused? For example, napkin math - 10% AC, 75% Threat, +35 MRR, +10% Elemental Absorption, +15 PRR (level 29 version, level 15 version will have lower numbers). That makes it a better choice for Magical Damage at the cost of a few PRR. Thoughts?

I think this would be more workable. I like the MMR over the PRR A whole lot more. I would like to see it closer to 50 MRR. That would give most tanks about a 4% increase to Magic defense

[Alcides]

You're convincing me to completely flip the script. What if the Guardian of the Gates were specifically MRR focused? For example, napkin math - 10% AC, 75% Threat, +35 MRR, +10% Elemental Absorption, +15 PRR (level 29 version, level 15 version will have lower numbers). That makes it a better choice for Magical Damage at the cost of a few PRR. Thoughts?

10% AC, 15 PRR, 10% Elemental Absorb on Block, 35 MRR on Block.
Intimitanking alone is not enough to hold threat vs the fully optimized DPSers.
Plus timing blocks is a whole lot more fun and is playing smart.

[Lynnabel]

10% AC, 15 PRR, 10% Elemental Absorb on Block, 35 MRR on Block.
Intimitanking alone is not enough to hold threat vs the fully optimized DPSers.
Plus timing blocks is a whole lot more fun and is playing smart.

This is a great idea but is hard to anchor to a set bonus. This is something I can hack onto an item, not something I can hack onto a set bonus. Good design instincts either way.

[TrueMan54914]

I know this is going to sound strange, but that seems too powerful. Comparing to Knight of the Shadows, your net gain is 15 MRR, +25% threat, and 10% elemental absorption at the cost of 5 PRR (3 or 1 PRR if you take the amount you get off the armors into consideration).

In my opinion, 35 MRR and 0 PRR would be strong enough.

I dont see how you believe that. Your math does not hold true at all. Even if the MRR was 50 it would be an increase of 4% at the very most.

[Fivetigers33]

There isn't a single item with sonic spell power. Doesn't the new iconic tiefling do damage that scales with sonic spell power?

[HastyPudding]

If you can compromise on the heavy set then why not the spell set?

For the Esoteric Influence set (which looks to be aimed specifically at DC casters) why can't we add a light armor option and change the item enhancements to suit its benefits?

We have the robe, which has the highest benefits:

Order's Garb Outfit
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Fortification +94%/+214%
• Physical Sheltering +19/+54
• Exceptional Spell Power +10/+30
• Exceptional Spell Lore +3%/+10%

Then we have the docent, which has lower benefits but warforged can augment their docent proficiency easier than fleshies:

Enigma Core Docent
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Fortification +94%/+214%
• Physical Sheltering +19/+54
• Exceptional Spell Power +10/+20
• Exceptional Spell Lore +3%/+10%

So why not add this, for armored casters:

Cryptic Garments Light Armor
Minimum Level: 15/29

• Fortification +94%/+214%
• Physical Sheltering +19/+54
• Exceptional Spell Power +5/+10
• Exceptional Spell Lore +2%/+5%

It's weaker than the others, but also provides warlocks and bards with a light armor option rather than greatly reducing their MRR.

[pjstechie]

I'm not sure raising the MRR cap is the way to do it, but it certainly feels like the itemization team and the quest design team didn't communicate at all. The amount of magic damage in some of the new quests (especially the raid) is absolutely insane. I saw monks with 2k+ HP being obliterated in the raid because they're being spammed with unavoidable magic damage.

And I'm with you on the Nystul's filigree set issue. It should be a bonus, but it feels like we're being forced to use a 5 piece filigree set to even just be viable.

If they are going to constantly design content where evasion doesn’t apply (and design itemization with limited armor selection) what other option do they have than increasing the MRR cap? They only give us 2 ways to counter magic damage: avoidance and mitigation. Taking avoidance off the table AND overly suppressing mitigation is bad game design.

Right now it’s just (poor and exceedingly limited) itemization to bridge the gap which is doing nothing but expanding.

[Aelonwy]

but yes, they are intentionally restricted to force players to actively choose between high effective DPS and high effective defenses.

sometimes as a game designer you need to enforce restrictions on your players for long term fun.

A lot of force and enforce. I've only ever argued for a Light Armor option, something that even PnP D&D allowed and PROVIDED for certain classes of Arcane Casters... Bard and Warlock. I understand that a portion of the player base would like to see casters in Robes only and enforce that archetype but even those classes of Arcane Caster that begin without any armor proficiency at all now have an easy way through enhancements to wear light armor without arcane spell failure. I will agree that investing so far as to have Medium Prof. without spell failure is to change the role or play-style of the character to a degree but I will scoff at anyone that says a Light armored caster will suddenly compete at the top end of defenses.

With all due respect, that's kind of the point. There needs to be a tradeoff - either you can be at the top of effective DPS (or CC or DC or what-have-you) for gear, or you can be at the top of effective mitigation. You can't have both.

We all accept trade-offs. That's part and parcel of choosing your class and enhancements. But you are denying two classes features that they naturally get. Bard & Warlock naturally have Light Armor Proficiency without arcane spell failure.

Look most of us love you Lynn and aren't arguing this to be adversarial or to get everything without trade-offs and maybe this isn't even a design decision that is entirely up to you but it does seem unfair and unnecessary to deny two caster classes an armor option they should naturally have in this set. Again, no caster is going to have top tier defense in light armor.