Falconry: Praise and Complaint

[Melkazar]

I love the Falconry enhancement with my ranger (even though the bird is actually an owl...) Using wisdom to damage, the built in boosts to assassinate and damage make it fun to run. But I do have a complaint. The complaint (and confusion) centers on having two types of attacks (ranged/melee) and having to choose. In light of the fact that the melee version allows an aerial attack by the bird without being anywhere near the target, it almost makes it a ranged attack. Yet I must be carrying a bow to activate the ranged version. Fury of the Wild doesn't force this distinction and it is annoying at the least and deadly at the worst as mobs close in. I would like to see a future update to merely be an attack, regardless of weapon, to send the feathered assassin on his way.

[jskinner937]

I love the Falconry enhancement with my ranger (even though the bird is actually an owl...) Using wisdom to damage, the built in boosts to assassinate and damage make it fun to run. But I do have a complaint. The complaint (and confusion) centers on having two types of attacks (ranged/melee) and having to choose. In light of the fact that the melee version allows an aerial attack by the bird without being anywhere near the target, it almost makes it a ranged attack. Yet I must be carrying a bow to activate the ranged version. Fury of the Wild doesn't force this distinction and it is annoying at the least and deadly at the worst as mobs close in. I would like to see a future update to merely be an attack, regardless of weapon, to send the feathered assassin on his way.

It is always a ranged attack regardless of what you pick for the bird portion. To get the portion of the +W attack coming from you, you need to be in range if you take the Melee version, while the ranged version hits regardless but you must have a ranged weapon equipped.

[Captain_Wizbang]

a future update to merely be an attack, regardless of weapon, to send the feathered assassin on his way.

This was discussed at length when the tree was released. Not going to happen, sorry. The synergies with other trees would have made it op.

FYI, from wiki....

Falconers excel at the art of falconry, using birds of prey to hunt down their enemies and protect their allies.

[Chacka_DDO]

I agree with the OP, it makes especially no sense when you take the melee version of the bird attack and you use sometimes a ranged weapon.
Then you have to change to a melee weapon and attack the "air" to make your bird fly to your target.
Ideally, you would have only one button for melee and ranged but this is maybe not that easy to do for the developers but I dont see a reason why you should not get the melee and the ranged version.
I dont see a reason why your birds should refuse your commands just only because he expects a sword in your hand...
This is just a technical question in my opinion and barely affects game balance.

[Memnir]

I agree that there should just be one attack button, not a multi-selector. It makes even less sense after the post-launch change that was made to the tree so now all bird attacks have the same, pretty much unlimited, range. It shouldn't matter what weapon you happen to be holding if the end result is the same. It just serves to make it situationally very annoying.

[AbyssalMage]

My praise: I was able to purchase it without all of the junk
My concern: I have to ER before I get to use Wis to hit/damage on my Druid. But hey, it will happen in the next 3 years

[Question2005]

This was discussed at length when the tree was released. Not going to happen, sorry. The synergies with other trees would have made it op.

FYI, from wiki....

Falconers excel at the art of falconry, using birds of prey to hunt down their enemies and protect their allies.

Lol, how? If you are melee, you pick the melee version. If you are ranged, you pick the ranged version. How would a single version break anything? You are still doing the exact same attack.

[askrj1]

Lol, how? If you are melee, you pick the melee version. If you are ranged, you pick the ranged version. How would a single version break anything? You are still doing the exact same attack.

Devs often have unfounded fears of breaking something because they don't know what is actually working or not. The result is arbitrary decisions and restrictions to avoid completely unlikely scenarios.

[LightBear]

Was not aware that the bird now always does a ranged attack. This is much appreciated as it was my main concern when first trying the falconry tree out. The animation cycle was/is to slow for a near the Falconer type of reach attack.

At least now you can let the bird do an attack and blind/knock en prone and then do a forward dash in followed by a big sweep, sweep sweep.

Will try that one out on my next bear life.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Lol, how? If you are melee, you pick the melee version. If you are ranged, you pick the ranged version. How would a single version break anything? You are still doing the exact same attack.

Why don't you take that up with SSG?

[SpartanKiller13]

I mean I'm 100% down with changing the melee version into a fun animation where you grab your bird as they pass by and bludgeon your opponent with said bird.

[Memnir]

I mean I'm 100% down with changing the melee version into a fun animation where you grab your bird as they pass by and bludgeon your opponent with said bird.

They'd have to add a new bird for THF: Ostrich.


I would be beyond okay with this.

[Enoach]

I had figured the reason for the selection is similar to what they did in the Epic Destinies where they created a Melee/Range Selection. My guess is that there is something behind the scene that prevents them from creating an option that makes the type of weapon being used not be an issue.

Personally, it would be good if you didn't have to make that choice and could use these abilities when using Melee or Ranged depending on the situation at hand.

[Cocomajobo]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee. There is no middle ground where an attack button can be clicked and the game can gracefully detect which type of weapon you are wielding and then makes an attack with the appropriate style.

To avoid this restriction we can use the spellcasting system and make what visually appears to be a weapon esque strike (think fan of knives from Vistani) but that makes the damage completely detached from your weapon and any effects that impact your weapon attacks.

The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

[Memnir]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee.

Honestly, thank you very very much for the explanation. It makes sense - and I get why it has to be the way it is.

Falconry is a lot of fun - and I still thank you folks a lot for it's implementation.

[Captain_Wizbang]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee. There is no middle ground where an attack button can be clicked and the game can gracefully detect which type of weapon you are wielding and then makes an attack with the appropriate style.

To avoid this restriction we can use the spellcasting system and make what visually appears to be a weapon esque strike (think fan of knives from Vistani) but that makes the damage completely detached from your weapon and any effects that impact your weapon attacks.

The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

Honestly, thank you very very much for the explanation. It makes sense - and I get why it has to be the way it is.

Falconry is a lot of fun - and I still thank you folks a lot for it's implementation.

[red_kain]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee. There is no middle ground where an attack button can be clicked and the game can gracefully detect which type of weapon you are wielding and then makes an attack with the appropriate style.

To avoid this restriction we can use the spellcasting system and make what visually appears to be a weapon esque strike (think fan of knives from Vistani) but that makes the damage completely detached from your weapon and any effects that impact your weapon attacks.

The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

My solution would be to have the current bird presence and added a "throwing" weapon, the gloves that bird handlers use. Summon the item similar to conjure arrows and let that act as the bird attacking (maybe gets its own attack animation where you softly shove the bird off to make it attack).

I'd have liked to see something like the FVS's Archon summon, where the bird hovers over your shoulder and occasionally flies out to attack an enemy doing physical damage with chance to maybe blind. Still, tree works well as is.

[Tyrande]

My understanding is this: The backend [...]

The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

Coco, why not just grant both the melee and ranged weapon attacks with the one attribute selection? In that way it does not matter what weapon people are wielding.

I think customer satisfication overrules back-end engine combat system complexity.

[Acrisius]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee. There is no middle ground where an attack button can be clicked and the game can gracefully detect which type of weapon you are wielding and then makes an attack with the appropriate style.
...
The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

So make it like the Vistani tree "Rapid Attack" or "Blessed Blades", which grant both the melee and ranged versions.

[askrj1]

My understanding is this: The backend requires any attack to either be ranged or melee. There is no middle ground where an attack button can be clicked and the game can gracefully detect which type of weapon you are wielding and then makes an attack with the appropriate style.

To avoid this restriction we can use the spellcasting system and make what visually appears to be a weapon esque strike (think fan of knives from Vistani) but that makes the damage completely detached from your weapon and any effects that impact your weapon attacks.

The point is, the desire for a single button that allows you to attack with your bird regardless of weapon style, would be cool, but is not currently supported by the backend core combat systems of DDO.

Coco we currently have some enhancements that grant both ranged and melee versions upon selection, such as DWS Merciful Shot/Merciful Strike and VKF Blessed Blades/Knives.

Considering the amount of investment it takes to do proper damage in either melee or ranged (completely different feat and enhancement progressions) I'd say some of the current selectors should update to offer both unless you have any serious concerns over the ability being too powerful to offer both, which can then be put up for discussion if needed.