Looking for a staff build

[aGarde]

What is the thinking between Adept/Master of forms (Wind Stance , +6/9 double strike) vs Improved/Greater 2-H fighting?

Currently, I'm looking to do a 18/2 Rogue/monk, 1st 3 levels rogue to get dex to damage, then 2 monk, rest rogue.. feats :
1) Power Attack
3) 2H Fighting
4) Precision
5) Dodge
6) Completionist
9) Mobility
12) IC:Bludgeon, Imp.Evasion
15) Imp. 2H fighting, Opportunist
18) Gtr. 2H fighting, Slippery Mind

While the forms seems enticing, the melee speed won't stack with items, and I'm likely to have items that boost melee speed.. I'd basically be losing out on the Double Strike.

I felt the +10 damage from Power attack would be huge in the lower levels. I didn't go with cleaves as the rogue enh. tree already has a couple cleave attacks.

Sad, but it looks like the best staff even at level 18 is the L7 TOEE staff. Hopefully the paralyzing still sticks ok at those levels!

[Tilomere]

What is the thinking between Adept/Master of forms (Wind Stance , +6/9 double strike) vs Improved/Greater 2-H fighting?

Currently, I'm looking to do a 18/2 Rogue/monk,

I think you are quibbling over relatively irrelevant amounts of damage.

I think you will be down a x2.25 damage multiplier due to lacking helpless on most mobs, down to a x1.25 multiplier on crits using highest durable available staves as you level instead of x1.7 multiplier with elemental bloom due to lacking stacked item defense, and down to x1.5 stat damage with dex instead of x2 stat damage from falconry with deadly instinct.

The net result is that if you have 50 base damage, and a 24 stat modifier by end of heroics:

Your dex build will multiply that 24 dex modifier by 1.5 to get 36 damage from dex, then add 50 base damage to get 86 base damage. Then it will multiply that by 1.25 for crit, and hit for 108 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

Heroic Soundburst Staffy will multiply that 24 wisdom modifier by 2 to get 48 damage from wisdom, then add 50 base damage to get 98. Then it will multiply that by 1.7 for crit, then multiply it again on most mobs by 2.25 for helpless, and hit most mobs for 375 by end of heroics, plus enable another 40 sneak damage due to helpless, and end up hitting for around 415 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

Wether or not 108 damage per hit by the end of heroics has more doublestrike or glancing blow damage is ... relatively irrelevant when you are already giving up 300 damage per hit (before melee power). The person in the group that doesn't give up 3/4ths of their damage like the pure sorc or warlock will end up killing most of the dungeon, and you will end up piking regardless.

This is also why people say cleaves, or heroic staff builds period, aren't good. When most people pike (on the most commonly suggested/used dex builds), then AoE piking with cleaves don't matter. But if you are annihilating things, then AoE annihilating things with cleaves is good times. People say cleaves with handwraps are terrible too, but when handwraps annihilate on hit in a similiar build, handwrap cleaves annihilate as well. Staff cleaves are way better than handwrap cleaves. (Edit)

[Coffey]

I think you are quibbling over relatively irrelevant amounts of damage.

I think you will be down a x2.25 damage multiplier due to lacking helpless on most mobs, down to a x1.25 multiplier on crits using highest durable available staves as you level instead of x1.7 multiplier with elemental bloom due to lacking stacked item defense, and down to x1.5 stat damage with dex instead of x2 stat damage from falconry with deadly instinct.

The net result is that if you have 50 base damage, and a 24 stat modifier by end of heroics:

Your dex build will multiply that 24 dex modifier by 1.5 to get 36 damage from dex, then add 50 base damage to get 86 base damage. Then it will multiply that by 1.25 for crit, and hit for 108 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

Heroic Soundburst Staffy will multiply that 24 wisdom modifier by 2 to get 48 damage from wisdom, then add 50 base damage to get 98. Then it will multiply that by 1.7 for crit, then multiply it again on most mobs by 2.25 for helpless, and hit most mobs for 375 by end of heroics, plus enable another 40 sneak damage due to helpless, and end up hitting for around 415 per hit by end of heroics (before melee power).

Wether or not 108 damage per hit by the end of heroics has more doublestrike or glancing blow damage is ... relatively irrelevant when you are already giving up 300 damage per hit (before melee power). The person in the group that doesn't give up 3/4ths of their damage like the pure sorc or warlock will end up killing most of the dungeon, and you will end up piking regardless.

This is also why people say cleaves aren't good on staff builds. If you are piking, then AoE piking with cleaves don't matter. But if you are annihilating things, then AoE annihilating things with cleaves is good times. People say cleaves with handwraps are terrible too, but when handwraps annihilate on hit in a similiar build, handwrap cleaves annihilate as well. Staff cleaves are way better than handwrap cleaves.

Does the 30% helpless damage from Acrobat stack with the 30% helpless damage from Falconry or any others?

Brutality: +20% when using a two-handed weapon
Bully: up to +15%
No Mercy: up to +30%
Sense Weakness: up to +30%

Edit: I read through your build again Tilo and i see you have both No Mercyx3. Half-orc for another 20% helpless from Brutality?

[Tilomere]

Everything stacks except rogue+monk No Mercy.

[Coffey]

Everything stacks except rogue+monk No Mercy.

Very cool build. Half-orc would be great for this build then.

[aGarde]

Thanks for the responses.. why 5 cleric.. is the item defense worth it, or for the extra spell pen?

[Tilomere]

yes.

[aGarde]

Howdy. I decided to try tilo's stun build, and it worked ok.. My character has all the necessary past lives to help make it work ( 3x sorc/fvs/wiz/cleric ) and when the sound burst stunned mobs, the damage was great. Stun, aoe attacks, everything is dead..

However, if I couldn't stun mobs, it could struggle. Due to being melee based vs caster based, my healing (of other players) was pretty bad.

The 2nd life was a 12/8 rogue/monk split, where I went 3 rogue, 2 monk, 9 more rogue, then rest monk. The damage isn't as high as the prior build when mobs were stunned, but higher when they aren't. Also, this build was far more survivable over all. When grouping, I could lead kill counts (when I bothered checking.. it's not a concern of mine, but I was interested for the build comparisons). If I wasn't leading the count, I was high up there so it was a decent dps build, but more of a single target vs aoe. Usually I get a single aoe trip and the rest of the party would obliterate the tripped mobs pretty quickly.

Solo running, I liked the rogue / monk split better than the rogue/cleric. It seemed more survivable and fared better when I couldn't, or didn't, stun mobs. But, like I mentioned earlier, the rogue/cleric was a beast against anything sound burst could stun.

My 3rd staff build is going to focus on monk over rogue. 3 rouge initially for the staff speed/dex to hit/damage (I may tweak the class leveling, we'll see) but then more monk to hit T5 in the monk tree for the void striking.. I want to see how that works vs the rogue T5. Will update when I finish that. I'm rather casual in my play and it takes me a bit to churn out a past life.

Oh, the race I went with was Half-elf. why? because I'm doing racials, and needed that one.. no other reason really

[Tilomere]

Ahh interesting. What difficulty level did you normally level in?

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

I didn't read everything, but funnily there's a Host God emphasising staffs : Aureon.
Like in this : https://ddowiki.com/page/Follower_of_Aureon

[aGarde]

Ahh interesting. What difficulty level did you normally level in?

Usually run r1-3. With the cleric build I'd put points into reaper DC and SP. Doing more of a monk build now, and going to see how it compares. Only L8 atm. There is a lack of decent Q.staffs.. even the new content, L15 Q.Staff is not as strong as the L7 Elemental Bloom. They can't even get higher base damage I occasionally swap to a different one to break DR if needed.

When playing with a group, the tactic I'm favoring is to let a different melee person lead the charge, and have the mobs close in on him, then I do the AOE Trip attack.. between paralyze and trip, most of the mobs are out of the fight for a few seconds. In this time, the party usually takes them out pretty fast. For what I've solo'd, it's just fine soloing, but you do need a healer hire no matter which build you play.

It's a fun build, but I don't think it's "top tier". It holds it's own, is different/fun, but if you don't have an Elemental Bloom, it wouldn't be. I haven't taken it into epics either, and have no intentions of trying.

[jskinner937]

I was looking to do a staff build, mostly to just TR with a few lives for fun. I have the TOEE paralyzing staff, and for a L7, it's a pretty nice staff.. seems it would work into the mid-teens.

The lives are for racial PL, and I know the current gig is sorc or rogue assassin, but I didn't want to run the same life over and over. I just did 3 human warlock, and want something "different". Never done staffs, and haven't really found any staff build I hadn't already thought about.. so.. coming here..

Any thoughts on a R1/2 heroic staff build that can solo if needed? (I do prefer groups, but can't always get them).

Tx

Unfortunately for a staff build, you are going to have to borrow Mart McFly’s time machine and set the clock to Jan 1st, 2014.

[Viciouspika]

I have been playing an acrobat for years. It was the first toon I got to level 20 when that was the cap. So, I have a lot of named staffs still missing bloom though because I haven't farmed for it yet.

Henshin was the best one until they nerfed the melee power of the henshin tree. Now, 18 rogue is the sweet spot due to the 20% double strike for the level 18 core, but as long as you have a minimum of 2 levels of rogue for thief acrobatics for 15% double strike, quick strike enhancements, and can get critical modifiers from a different class(fighter, wizard, or barbarian). Your good. Otherwise 5 levels of rogue should be used or 5 levels of monk( I prefer 6 monk for shadow veil) for the +1 critical modifier and range. Feats: Precision, two handed fighting(all three), Improved critical; blunt, improved feint(always nice when you see spellcasters turn their back on you mid cast), and what every else you want. Items: make sure you have a deception item and/or an improved deception item especially if you take mostly rogue because sneak attacks is where a lot of your DPS comes from.

Another thing, I have noticed over the years, is its always good to splash at least one level of class that has an item protection in its enhancement tree to prevent your staffs from breaking(ie. fighter's stalwart defender, Paladin's sacred defender, ranger's tempest and Sorcerer/wizards eldritch knight tree). I have done a Paladin, fighter, cleric, monk, rogue, wizard, favored soul, and barbarian acrobats. They were fun in their own right. I'm currently running an 18 rogue/1barbarian/1wizard acrobat. Barbarian for run speed, Wizard for item protection and extended nightshield and protection from evil. With the changes to eldritch knight, next life will be 18 wizard/2rogue.

Good luck and have fun with your acrobat. I enjoy the animation of the attack sequence and have fun pulling Leroy Jenkins moments, but I survive.

[Garix]

Another thing, I have noticed over the years, is its always good to splash at least one level of class that has an item protection in its enhancement tree to prevent your staffs from breaking(ie. fighter's stalwart defender, Paladin's sacred defender, ranger's tempest and Sorcerer/wizards eldritch knight tree)

Just on the above bit I've cut out...no longer need to splash a class for access to Item Protection enhancement if you have the Falconry universal tree available to you. There a tier 2 option for it in that instead

[C-Dog]

improved feint...

I've always shyed away from this Feat due to the reported bug - is that not an issue, or that much of one? (Or does that section need editing?)

o https://ddowiki.com/page/Improved_Fe...erved_behavior

[Viciouspika]

Garix that's good to know about the falconry enhancement tree.

C-Dog have not noticed the bugs on improved feint feat that are listed in the DDO wiki page. I have noticed that I may not get sneak attacks on some undead or constructs but they seem to turn away and discharge spells in wrong direction or attack open space. I know the bug was an issue a couple of years ago, but I have used it this last year and it seems to work.

[aGarde]

Last update!! After trying out 3 different builds ( soundburts, rogue T5, monk T5 ) I think the monk 12, rogue 8 build, going T5 henshin tree for the "Shadows can't exist", and going T4 in Thief Acrobat tree, is the strongest. The T5 henshin healing everyone around me for 150+ points every 8ish seconds was pretty nice, and double strike gets applied to it as well, so many times I was healing for 300+.

Was a fun set of lives. Don't try it w/o an elemental bloom tho

[aGarde]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-a-staff-build

I tried out 3 different staff builds, and documented the results in that thread. It's fun, but I don't think it scales into epics due to lack of weapons, but I didn't take it into epics either.