Rangers *still* need an update,

[Lynnabel]

I don't disagree, but would it kill you to make longbows not the worst possible ranged option?

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Fun? Absolutely.

It might be, BUT the "fun" factor for bow users and rangers as whole is diminished because of the lack of support.

I'll speak with my wallet.

[Gabrael]

wrong thread

[barecm]

.... I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

I'd argue that longbow gameplay sub-31 is in a very bad spot

[Captain_Wizbang]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, are darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

Those items don't have a class tailored to them as the way Ranger/ Bow users do.

[Thar]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

those weapons don't have a class built around a weapon (bows) as ranger is.

[Kaboom2112]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

When can we start throwing halflings?

[Enoach]

When can we start throwing halflings?

I would vote for this, especially if it is part of a Racial enhancement tree associated with Dwarves or Half-Orcs


But off topic -
There should be an added score card for kills by Elves vs Dwarves when both races are in the party

[janave]

I don't disagree, but would it kill you to make longbows not the worst possible ranged option?

Having to play a current "dev favourite" to be "good at the game" is among the least fun aspects imo, id some days take more lag instead of this.

[Garbudo]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

People actually loot and use those????
I got a bug killer dagger thrower that I still have not used collecting dust. Guess I might use it in TTT.
Now what people are talking about when they say ranged on a Ranger cough, cough are arrow and bolt firing weapons.
Throwers are just that thrower in the trash.
So why do longbows get the short end of the stick?
That is what some people are asking

[Tilomere]

Your post suggests you're trying to play a pure Ranger as an offensive spellcaster in Epics.

I think you are missing the point. He is trying to play a ranger as a ranger, which includes a hybrid mix of melee, ranged, and spell casting.

The way that you design your sets, the exclusivity behind them, and the power behind them results in super specialization in a single field (silent avenger, or sharn sets) in order to make an effective character.

For example, if you wanted to make a melee + ranged deepwood stalker that casts entangle, spiked growth, and snare spells for crowd control, how would one gear it with ravenloft or sharn gear?

Your itemization is only supporting hyper specialization, which isn't supporting playing D&D characters as D&D characters.

One solution is here, to allow artifacts to enable characters to selectively activate two set bonuses at once as limited "Gem of Many Facets."

You could even have the "Gem of Many Facets" part of the item be unlocked by investment in hybrid trees.
----------------------------------

Longbow builds can be very powerful for dungeon crawling. Maybe try this?

[Captain_Wizbang]

I think you are missing the point. He is trying to play a ranger as a ranger, which includes a hybrid mix of melee, ranged, and spell casting.

The way that you design your sets, the exclusivity behind them, and the power behind them results in super specialization in a single field (silent avenger, or sharn sets) in order to make an effective character.

For example, if you wanted to make a melee + ranged deepwood stalker that casts entangle, spiked growth, and snare spells for crowd control, how would one gear it with ravenloft or sharn gear?

Your itemization is only supporting hyper specialization, which isn't supporting playing D&D characters as D&D characters.

One solution is here, to allow artifacts to enable characters to selectively activate two set bonuses at once as limited "Gem of Many Facets."

[vms4ever]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

I strongly disagree. Those are all effective weapons in comparison to the true worst ranged option: throwing pillows. DDO truly offers nothing but contempt for pillow throwers. It is truly depressing for the dedicated pillow thrower but I blame it on the AD&D 3.5 rules and their inherent bias against throwing pillows (second only to the AD&D 3.5 bias against bows rate of fire).

I believe that their is much that could be done to address ranged damage but it would require major deviation from AD&D 3.5 rules.

[Dark_Helmet]

Fun? Absolutely.

So is pushing someone wearing white into a mud puddle...it doesn't make it right.

The idea of using a two handed weapon (even a hand crossbow requires 2 to load as it has external ammunition) as a single in each hand and have it autoload is quite ludicrous. Besides needing to be ambidextrous to fire, loading required a free hand (auto fire is like having a magazine where you can fire a set number without reload - usually 3 shots).


If you are stretching magic that far, might as well issue machine guns, nuclear bombs, and sci-fi weapons. There was a reason that D&D only had S3. To make it unique and not the norm. Having classes of characters using these things is quite ridiculous when you can't even properly use more conventional weapons such as a bastard sword one-handed or pole arms.

[Tyrande]

They aren't - throwing daggers, throwing axes, throwing hammers, and darts are all way worse. I'd also argue that the Shuri gameplay sub-20 is in a very bad spot.

But Lynnabel: those examples you listed are all single-handed weapons. You can either hold a shield or a focus item like the Celestia on another hand to have moar DPS or blind effects. You are not saying that a great axe (two handed) and a short sword (single handed) should have the same DPS, are you?!?

So, a two handed weapon like the longbow should not be the same DPS as the ranged weapons like throwing daggers you described above, since you can hold a Celestia on the other hand to have more DPS.

In theory, to be fair, the longbow should have the DPS of the 2xthrowing dagger(s).

[Captain_Wizbang]

The idea of using a two handed weapon (even a hand crossbow requires 2 to load as it has external ammunition) as a single in each hand and have it autoload is quite ludicrous. Besides needing to be ambidextrous to fire, loading required a free hand (auto fire is like having a magazine where you can fire a set number without reload - usually 3 shots)..

Ya think?

[droid327]

those weapons don't have a class built around a weapon (bows) as ranger is.

Those items don't have a class tailored to them as the way Ranger/ Bow users do.

To be fair - Rangers can use xbows too. Its only AA, not Ranger, that's Bow specific.

And if throwers were improved (addressing the shortcomings Lynn is highlighting) then a thrower/twf Vistani build would a very viable hybrid ranged-melee approach for Ranger.

[jimcricket]

Years ago when Druid came out I thought Rangers were gong to get an update as I assumed there would be some cross over in regards to spells and maybe the pet...nope

Arty got a pet, but that was fine right? As Rangers were more martial damage focused and arty more spell focused... that's sorta funny now with with xbows as they are these days.

Oh and for the love of god stop putting keen on high level bows, and give them a proper improved crit profile you do know people take improved crit for their chosen play style. its been years since we got a bow for archers, we have asked for one for soooooo long. You (lyn) have commented on threads asking for this and even made bows worse that we suggested needed to be better during development (white plume). So I will not bother commenting on the sharn loot thread.

Named long and short bows need to be better, by a fair way, just adding stuff to ranger is not quite enough as other builds need the boost if they want to use bow too.

[Captain_Wizbang]

To be fair - Rangers can use xbows too. Its only AA, not Ranger, that's Bow specific..

To be fair, we're (I'm) not talking about xbows. The way xbows are more powerful than a long bow is a joke quite frankly. Along with dual wielding a weapon that requires 2 hands to load. What a farce

[janave]

To be fair - Rangers can use xbows too. Its only AA, not Ranger, that's Bow specific.

And if throwers were improved (addressing the shortcomings Lynn is highlighting) then a thrower/twf Vistani build would a very viable hybrid ranged-melee approach for Ranger.

Xbow, and throwers may benefit greatly from Deepwood, but Bows barely benefit from Mechanic and Ninja Spy.

I do not have much faith about interest in game balance anymore, i may spend some time here and there on my archer builds but certainly saving my Main from more frustration and "inferior citizen" treatment.

There is enough mental abuse "keeping up" in DDO if one plays a fully supported META build, it is just self punishing to try this on a non supported build.