Rangers *still* need an update,

[droid327]

One of the best bows in game is unwavering ardency. So if you can get out of that solo playstyle and find a group running Ascension Chamber raid you might be able to get one easily. Although since its a old raid not many run it anymore.

To be fair, its so hard to run Ascension Chamber now that they had to build an alternative to Quiver in via Scoundrel PL...

[Captain_Wizbang]

So the goal is to make an effective spell caster without gearing them up as one? Makes a lot of sense. When done with this please make me a tank in pure DPS gear.

Comprehension is amazing, isn't it?

[Captain_Wizbang]

One problem is that Wild Empathy uses Charisma or Intelligence depending of the target. This should be changed to Wisdom based.

Entangle, Hold Animal and Snare are all wisdom based spells. Entangle and Snare are Transmutation spells while Hold Animal is an Enchantment spell.

Ranger spells have a max base DC of 10+4 with 14-20 Ranger levels.

I think one solution for the spells would be to add SLA's in the Deepwood Stalker tree for both Entangle and Snare and give them similar DC's to the Imbues from Arcane Archer. This could also include boosts to Transmutation DC's like there is for Enchantment in Arcane Archer.

+1.

[Niminae]

Your post suggests you're trying to play a pure Ranger as an offensive spellcaster in Epics.

Its A Bold Strategy Cotton, Lets See If It Pays Off For Em

Fixed that for you.

[janave]

Bow rangers wont compete on rate of fire or alacrity anytime soon with shurikens and xbows, so bows are left with base damage and crits.

Yet the biggest issue with bows is the massive cooldown to wait for your "big shot", then ending up grazing it for abysmal dmg. This is less problem when you shoot consistent 3-4 hits / ****, but typical bow builds ending <2 hits per shot is very lossy. Basically this makes players wait for manyshot and doing below substandard dps while it is on cooldown.

That way, much time spent on waiting and aligning shots, meanwhile surikens and xbows are pulling >10k dps just holding left button.

Some ideas:

I. Extend Point Blank range and bonuses inherently when equipping a Bow, any Bow but maybe tier with:

+5 meters .5W Shortbow
+10 meters 1W Longbow
+20 meters 1.5W Composite longbow
+15 meters 2W Greatbow

II. Do not decay archers focus while Manyshotting.

III. New Gear that specifically increases W for PBS

This is tricky because other ranged weapons also boosted, maybe a new bow-only item effect?

IV. Make named quivers and named returning arrows great for bows.

V. Consider making ranged heavy trees to include "on ranged shot" rather then "on xbow shot", there are a few that makes perfect sense.

VI. Add Greatbows to the game, but restrict its damage bonus mod to STR stat.

[ned_ellis]

Bow rangers wont compete on rate of fire or alacrity anytime soon with shurikens and xbows, so bows are left with base damage and crits.

Yet the biggest issue with bows is the massive cooldown to wait for your "big shot", then ending up grazing it for abysmal dmg. This is less problem when you shoot consistent 3-4 hits / ****, but typical bow builds ending <2 hits per shot is very lossy. Basically this makes players wait for manyshot and doing below substandard dps while it is on cooldown.

That way, much time spent on waiting and aligning shots, meanwhile surikens and xbows are pulling >10k dps just holding left button.

Some ideas:

I. Extend Point Blank range and bonuses inherently when equipping a Bow, any Bow but maybe tier with:

+5 meters .5W Shortbow
+10 meters 1W Longbow
+20 meters 1.5W Composite longbow
+15 meters 2W Greatbow

II. Do not decay archers focus while Manyshotting.

III. New Gear that specifically increases W for PBS

This is tricky because other ranged weapons also boosted, maybe a new bow-only item effect?

IV. Make named quivers and named returning arrows great for bows.

V. Consider making ranged heavy trees to include "on ranged shot" rather then "on xbow shot", there are a few that makes perfect sense.

VI. Add Greatbows to the game, but restrict its damage bonus mod to STR stat.

As is often the way, Janave makes some good points. To the list I would add :

- We spoke in a longbow thread in the past about quiver+bow sets/bonuses too.

- A differentiation or stacking of arrow choices would indeed be good - similar to AA prestige in pnp (homing arrows that assure crit, avoid armour, debuff, dispell, etc.) or Baba bow clicky (which I have yet to try); basically a practical method to change ammunition on the fly would be nice. Of course they would need some stacking with the actual bow.

- I miss Windhowler Bracer type items

- I would agree, with regards the OP, that ranger spells are not really living up to their potential and would grant a nice differentiation to the class. I would disagree with regards to them not really performing as a class though.

[memloch]

I am not a great ranger fan but just played a couple in the last few months. I feel that the class plays well but the spells need some work as most are totally useless. Perhaps a spell pass for Rangers are in order.

[deredriel]

If you tell me about range dps for ranger it's possible but it 's just another class not at top actually. But rangers with 2 weapons fighting are at the top actually with few others. I have seen these last weeks, pure rangers standing in melee in r5/6 without problem and with a really good dps.
valdomir

[Requiro]

Your post suggests you're trying to play a pure Ranger as an offensive spellcaster in Epics.

A bold choice.

Then we are agree that Ranger's spells are... garbage?

At any rate: There are a lot of Ranger builds that hold up extremely well in Epics. While there is still a need for adjustments in the Ranged ecosystem as a whole, Ranger (as a Class) is performing very well right now.

Tempest (Melee) - yes.
Multi (DWS) - yes.
AA (Bow) - sub-optimal (leveling is pain, gear is pain, end game is ok)

What we need is some serious adjustments to Bow users.

BTW: I love to see Fletching ability (or something similar) somewhere other than Mechanic.

[Captain_Wizbang]

I. Extend Point Blank range and bonuses inherently when equipping a Bow, any Bow but maybe tier with:


II. Do not decay archers focus while Manyshotting.

III. New Gear that specifically increases W for PBS

This is tricky because other ranged weapons also boosted, maybe a new bow-only item effect?

IV. Make named quivers and named returning arrows great for bows.

V. Consider making ranged heavy trees to include "on ranged shot" rather then "on xbow shot", there are a few that makes perfect sense.

VI. Add Greatbows to the game, but restrict its damage bonus mod to STR stat.

I would agree, with regards the OP, that ranger spells are not really living up to their potential and would grant a nice differentiation to the class. I would disagree with regards to them not really performing as a class though.

I am not a great ranger fan but just played a couple in the last few months. I feel that the class plays well but the spells need some work as most are totally useless. Perhaps a spell pass for Rangers are in order.

Then we are agree that Ranger's spells are... garbage? Tempest (Melee) - yes.
Multi (DWS) - yes.
AA (Bow) - sub-optimal (leveling is pain, gear is pain, end game is ok)

What we need is some serious adjustments to Bow users.

BTW: I love to see Fletching ability (or something similar) somewhere other than Mechanic.

Steelstar, (I don't like calling out devs, but you answered so.....) Since day 1 in DDO, Ranger spells and functionality have sucked. SSG/Turbine has given every class upgrades, but the ranged and spell aspect of this class has been screwed over.

I was going to make another thread about the ranged aspect, but since we have this feedback, I'll just pine away here.

Tempest is fine. So the only thing I agree with you in "rangers perform well in epics" is that. It ends there. And you know it.

You give x-bows some long overdue love, cool. but Rangers as a true class yet again get screwed.

Rangers enhancement all to often share bow and x-bows, this needs to be addressed based on the things like endless fusillade.

I remember 6 years ago Truhd & I were part of test on Lamma-Land where you devs were adjusting "bandwidth" for rangers. We had a great adjustment for rangers ranged attacks that lasted 2 weeks before it got nerfed.

The nerf to manyshot is a joke. It has been since you made the change. Roll that change back and then bow users can gain back what you've taken away from them. (I know the monchker players will be happy)

Here's evidence of the fatal flaw in your "balancing" attempt. When you bump a class or path (most of which is great work) others similar classes and paths fall behind, thus amplifying the original disparities.

This debate is a no-win for you until a change is made. Sure completionists and super tweaked toons can run a life as pure ranger, but how many people stay in that config?

So again my plea for a change to rangers spells, their DC's and associated items is valid, the call for bow users getting a few tweaks is valid.

When was the last time rangers spells were addressed? When the cap was increased. And all that happened were spells were added. The ranger pass years ago helped with wild empathy and the occasional elemental, but they dont work after lvl 15ish because of my OP.

Make some items to help this situation until you can slate the time to table the much needed update.

[droid327]

BTW: I love to see Fletching ability (or something similar) somewhere other than Mechanic.

Its in Falconry for that reason

You give x-bows some long overdue love, cool. but Rangers as a true class yet again get screwed.

Rangers enhancement all to often share bow and x-bows, this needs to be addressed based on the things like endless fusillade.

The nerf to manyshot is a joke. It has been since you made the change. Roll that change back and then bow users can gain back what you've taken away from them. (I know the monchker players will be happy)

Here's evidence of the fatal flaw in your "balancing" attempt. When you bump a class or path (most of which is great work) others similar classes and paths fall behind, thus amplifying the original disparities.

When was the last time rangers spells were addressed? When the cap was increased. And all that happened were spells were added. The ranger pass years ago helped with wild empathy and the occasional elemental, but they dont work after lvl 15ish because of my OP.

What is a "true class"? Rangers get SO MUCH in their class levels. A whole slew of excellent autogrant feats. Self healing and FOM. Excellent weapon damage options. Evasion and good defenses. They're one of the BEST and most complete pure classes right now, and complement a lot of other classes as a split. You need to better establish and defend that there is a problem before you start demanding a solution.

I dont want to see Ranger skills locked between "bow only" and "xbow only". There's too much of that as-is with AA. We should be unifying ranged combat, not channelizing it more.

Manyshot nerf is a good thing in the long run. It gives them latitude to grow other ranged options. Having one mega-skill that singlehandedly makes a playstyle viable means it becomes de facto required, and nothing else can really be added because it would become OP alongside that megaskill, and pointless without it. Bow combat needs a boost - but it should come to bows directly, not specifically tied to Ranger...who, again, are already pretty awesome with bows. Monkchers, AA archers, etc. need bow love too. Hell, Bowbarians might become viable if bow combat a la carte was improved to viability.

"Relative nerfs" like you're describing are a lie. You lose nothing on your build when someone else gains more. When it becomes an issue is when content is balanced or rebalanced for a power level you cant achieve anymore...but just because you want to be able to play with the fancy new Inquisitive toy with your Pinion, and you cant, doesnt mean your bow build got nerfed.

Rangers are not spell casters. They're martial fighters who can cast spells. And those spells are mostly healing and buffs. Your expectation that they should be materially contributing to magical efficacy is unrealistic considering how powerful they are with weapon DPS and survivability by the time their spellcasting starts to falter. If you want them to become better spellcasters, then you're asking for them to be Druids.

[Captain_Wizbang]

We should be unifying ranged combat, not channelizing it more..

Yeah right. With all the bumps to x-bows, your statement just got set back to update 31 (or so) I don't see how they could accomplish this.

And I disagree w/ the rest of your post. (as usual) JK,

[Eryhn]

So the goal is to make an effective spell caster without gearing them up as one? Makes a lot of sense. When done with this please make me a tank in pure DPS gear.

qft.

while sure, on the one hand, it's just somehow annoying that ranger has age old spells which nowadays are completely meaningless, and thus it would be satisfying to *fix that

on the other hand, just cause falconry wis opened this option to some extent it might not be so smart balance descission to give one of the top single target dps 100% reliable CC options ...

which already HAS happened btw and I doubt anybody gave any thought to entangle and mass frog and ranger when trying to sell Wis trees ^^

[MacRighteous]

Anybody notice the base damage on the new Sharn Longbow?

https://imgur.com/yDSaL9I

[kain741]

Comprehension is amazing, isn't it?

posting coherent thoughts based on logical builds is also amazing. A PM or DC lock would not be effective either if they weren't geared for DCs. Wanting to spec for DPS and still get full benefit of DCs is shortsighted and actually irresponsible to ask for. Sorry, no god mode.

[Eryhn]

Anybody notice the base damage on the new Sharn Longbow?

https://imgur.com/yDSaL9I

was about to say *ugh that's trash low*

then saw its heroic version



yeeeah, right

[systemshaker1941]

I guess I'll have to pick up the madness chain.
Why I don't have it already - I'm not sure? I think I tried it when I VIP'd and didnt like it or thought it was too hard to solo (or is there a solo gate in it?) but that was a while back, so maybe i can /madness better now?

Do you pug at all, or do you only very strictly play this MMO alone?

Either way, the chain is pretty easy to solo; and since the bow is a chain end-reward you don't even have to run on high difficulty. I've soloed it at level; and the bow is great for TRs.

[MacRighteous]

Do you pug at all, or do you only very strictly play this MMO alone?

Either way, the chain is pretty easy to solo; and since the bow is a chain end-reward you don't even have to run on high difficulty. I've soloed it at level; and the bow is great for TRs.

Yeah, I only play this game solo on the TR train (or occasionally in a static group with some RL friends, though they never stick around long - lotro players) not sure why i was up to now avoiding this chain - this and the necro chain is the only packs I don't own - and both the bows mentioned in this thread comes from those packs - lol

I picked up the madness chain and am going after the bow - however I'm on my 3rd ranger life now and will be TRing unto another build soon -lol
I am thinking of doing my Monk lives as an archer - so maybe i'll get more millage out of the bow

[HungarianRhapsody]

Ranger is top.tier currently. Just not with a bow Put a pair of melee weapons in your hands and enjoy the enormous DPS. In face, Ranger is one of the few classes that is outstanding even if you go pure. (Especially if you go pure.)

Currently doing way, way better than Fighter or Paladin.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Ranger is top.tier currently. Just not with a bow

We all know that, This thread is about the lack of help with the weak spells and the lack of items to help, and also (by player feedback) about it's ranged inequalities.