Make Completionist Auto granted

[Alcides]

If and when the next class that may or may not currently exist is theoretically added to the game...
Could we pretty please with sugar on top have the Completionist feat become autogranted at that time?
From,
Grundable

[awar1234]

if and when the next class that may or may not currently exist is theoretically added to the game...
Could we pretty please with sugar on top have the completionist feat become autogranted at that time?
From,
grundable

amen. Brother!

[C-Dog]

While it would save a Feat slot and therefore be really convenient for those who've earned it, there's a good argument that Racial Completionist (currently at 33 lives) should be "more" than the traditional Class-completionist (currently at "only" 14 lives).

[psykopeta]

While it would save a Feat slot and therefore be really convenient for those who've earned it, there's a good argument that Racial Completionist (currently at 33 lives) should be "more" than the traditional Class-completionist (currently at "only" 14 lives).

make it autogranted at 3x each pl? so you can buy the feat with 1 pl each, for free at 3x each?

bring solutions, not issues!

[Octarino]

make it autogranted at 3x each pl? so you can buy the feat with 1 pl each, for free at 3x each?

bring solutions, not issues!

So you're saying instead of 15 lives, we'd have to grind out another 30 lives for the privilege of having it auto-granted?

[C-Dog]

bring solutions, not issues!

I offer what I got.

Triple completionist would def be balanced!

[thunir]

While it would save a Feat slot and therefore be really convenient for those who've earned it, there's a good argument that Racial Completionist (currently at 33 lives) should be "more" than the traditional Class-completionist (currently at "only" 14 lives).

With Racial completionist your picking up Stats along the way, the Class completionist bonuses are negligible in comparison. IMHO. You used to need the Spell pen and DC in endgame but even that is arguably not necessary especially with the up coming ED changes. Maybe the HD for monk is irreplaceable? I don't know.

[HungarianRhapsody]

With Racial completionist your picking up Stats along the way, the Class completionist bonuses are negligible in comparison. IMHO. You used to need the Spell pen and DC in endgame but even that is arguably not necessary especially with the up coming ED changes. Maybe the HD for monk is irreplaceable? I don't know.

Paladin Past Lives are nice for everyone
Wizard past lives are nice because the +6 Spell Pen stacks with everything.
If you are going to be an Undead Turning Cleric/Paladin, +6 levels for Undead is nice.

Beyond that? Nothing supremely exciting. Maybe +9 damage for thrower/Inquisitor builds?

Class completionist is a lot less exciting than it used to be.

[janave]

I would say the spell penetration past lives are not just nice, but effectively mandatory if someone plans to be effective help in highend SR heavy content. It helps tons with gearing, may save feats and actions points. Almost anything that helps landing DC Actives is too good to ignore.

The completionist feat should not be class-dependent. It is a signature of player endurance, if anything it would worth considering to make these BtA, granted on each new character once unlocked. But making it auto granted per character is fair enough.

Devs really need to get a top-down view of how reward systems work in DDO if they wanna keep it going and growing. From what I ve seen the servers are pretty empty, seems like people have no issues skipping on grinds to enjoy the summer, and choose "entertainment" instead..

[Valerianus]

If and when the next class that may or may not currently exist is theoretically added to the game...
Could we pretty please with sugar on top have the Completionist feat become autogranted at that time?
From,
Grundable

yeah, amen.

[Elfishski]

If and when the next class that may or may not currently exist is theoretically added to the game...
Could we pretty please with sugar on top have the Completionist feat become autogranted at that time?
From,
Grundable

It's good for a game to have to make tradeoffs in character creation. I have completionist, nearly every life it's worth taking because it's better than any alternatives. Neat reward without breaking the balance between haves and have nots too much. The choice of implementing completionist in this way was done by wise folks.

Instead of making heroic completionist auto-grant, I suggest that racial completionist should also require an interesting trade-off and not be auto-granted either, and that this could come in the form of a racial paragon tree, unlocked at single racial completionist, where the cores are +1 all stats, +1 all skills, repeat, and then within the tree you could e.g. pick any dragonmark or get extra uses, or some other generic racial kind of things. Somewhere else that you would normally want to spend a handful of your racial points, at the cost of alternatives, but might not do so every life.

I'm not expecting that it _will_ be changed that way as you folks will complain too much, but that's how I think it should have been implemented (and if it was changed to that, it would allow more space for more racial points and more eventual power creep, if that incentivizes anyone on the other side).

[Alcides]

I'm not expecting that it _will_ be changed that way as you folks will complain too much, but that's how I think it should have been implemented (and if it was changed to that, it would allow more space for more racial points and more eventual power creep, if that incentivizes anyone on the other side).

Don't misconstrue my suggestion as a complaint. What you have said is not a true statement. Next time leave constructive not divisive commentary.

[Elfishski]

Don't misconstrue my suggestion as a complaint. What you have said is not a true statement. Next time leave constructive not divisive commentary.

I wasn't criticizing the OP for being a complaint. I was just acknowledging with my suggestion, that if racial completionist was no longer an auto-grant after it has been for a while, at least some vocal people would (justifiably, perhaps?) be up in arms claiming that they completed triple racial lives and hated every second just to have that +2.

If we want symmetry between racial/heroic completionist, then I do think my counter-suggestion of removing autogrant from racial completionist and adding a racial paragon tree would be a better change than autogrant heroic completionist though:
- more character choices, which we all like or we wouldn't play DDO
- marginally less power differential between maxed out and less maxed out characters now (have to spend a few action points to get what you have currently)
- less backloaded grind-til-your-fingers-fall-off to get triple lives in order to get the benefit, nice curve where single completionist gives you access but you probably only have the points to make use of it after lots of racial lives
- more space for future character progression/power creep later, keeping everyone happy

I disagree with the OP suggestion, as it's more satisfying and rewarding to consciously choose a new powerful option in character building than it is to just have bigger numbers.

[banjo174]

I have completionist, nearly every life it's worth taking because it's better than any alternatives.

What lives are you doing that completionist is worth taking? The only lives that I ever take completionist on, are DC Builds, and thrower builds... I can always find something more useful than completionist on every other build.

[Discpsycho]

What lives are you doing that completionist is worth taking? The only lives that I ever take completionist on, are DC Builds, and thrower builds... I can always find something more useful than completionist on every other build.

Pretty much any HTR or RTR build, I'd imagine. While +2 stats doesn't make much of a difference in epics, you can substitute it in any build using a Greater Spell Focus or Spell Penetration feat

+2 to skills is moderately useful for trappers, but otherwise underwhelming. The +2 stats, on the other hand...

Pretty much any casting build is going to use it, and these are the most common HTR/RTR builds - Warlock, Sorc, FvS, Cleric, Wizard. Any build that TWF's is going to get similar benefit out of +1 hit/damage as +2 melee power (many people default to Weapon Focus as a filler feat), and most of these benefit form secondary stats (eg Monk, Ranger, Druid). The same is going to be true of a SWF build, though maybe to a lesser extent. Not necessarily distinct from the previous groups, tactical melee builds would benefit, especially if they don't have enough fighter levels for the Tactics feats - I'm looking at Bards and melee Rogues here.

So who does this leave? Some THF and ranged folks. The latter often take fighter levels for more feats or get KTA / Deadly Instinct and benefit further from the stat increase. Artificers, archers, fusillade builds and throwers all fall into this category

So that leaves...some THF builds, as far as I can tell. Paladins and druids are multi-attribute dependent, acrobats use tactics. THF fighters and barbarians will probably forgo completionist; barbs because they're feat-starved, fighters because they have better options.

Personally, it's pretty rare that I have *exactly* the number of feat slots as I would need to make it feasible. If you're not RTRing you always have the option to go human and free up another

[banjo174]

Pretty much any HTR or RTR build, I'd imagine. While +2 stats doesn't make much of a difference in epics, you can substitute it in any build using a Greater Spell Focus or Spell Penetration feat

+2 to skills is moderately useful for trappers, but otherwise underwhelming. The +2 stats, on the other hand...

Pretty much any casting build is going to use it, and these are the most common HTR/RTR builds - Warlock, Sorc, FvS, Cleric, Wizard. Any build that TWF's is going to get similar benefit out of +1 hit/damage as +2 melee power (many people default to Weapon Focus as a filler feat), and most of these benefit form secondary stats (eg Monk, Ranger, Druid). The same is going to be true of a SWF build, though maybe to a lesser extent. Not necessarily distinct from the previous groups, tactical melee builds would benefit, especially if they don't have enough fighter levels for the Tactics feats - I'm looking at Bards and melee Rogues here.

So who does this leave? Some THF and ranged folks. The latter often take fighter levels for more feats or get KTA / Deadly Instinct and benefit further from the stat increase. Artificers, archers, fusillade builds and throwers all fall into this category

So that leaves...some THF builds, as far as I can tell. Paladins and druids are multi-attribute dependent, acrobats use tactics. THF fighters and barbarians will probably forgo completionist; barbs because they're feat-starved, fighters because they have better options.

Personally, it's pretty rare that I have *exactly* the number of feat slots as I would need to make it feasible. If you're not RTRing you always have the option to go human and free up another

People defaulting to weapon focus feats are just as bad as people using completionist on builds that arent gearing towards DC and arent thrower builds.

As I previously stated, I do see the point for completionist on DC and thrower builds, however there are plenty of builds that dont fall under these 2 categories. I am sure there are plenty of people that dont even think about past life rogue, and its potential even on builds that dont have a base sneak attack, or lets look at past life artificer, giving you the ability to give yourself +1 enahncement bonus to your weapons. These are both HUGE benefits, way more than the completionist feat.

There are plenty of options, even quicken can fit into most builds, empower healing can fit into a decent amount... Force of personality, or insightful reflexes depending on the build... Spring attack is a must for end game DPS optimization, which that has quite the feat requirement.

[Cantor]

lets look at past life artificer, giving you the ability to give yourself +1 enahncement bonus to your weapons. These are both HUGE benefits, way more than the completionist feat.

HAHAHA. literally +2 to all stats of completionist gives you the same +1 hit/damage that +1 enhancement would... in addition to everything else. +1 enhancement is garbage in comparison. unless you are arguing the +3 spellpower from the enhancement bonus is the clincher.

[Dreppo]

Spring attack is a must for end game DPS optimization

Interesting. I thought Spring Attack was only taken by monk builds to get to Whirlwind Attack. What am I missing?

[SirValentine]

It's good for a game to have to make tradeoffs in character creation. I have completionist, nearly every life it's worth taking because it's better than any alternatives. Neat reward without breaking the balance between haves and have nots too much. The choice of implementing completionist in this way was done by wise folks.

Instead of making heroic completionist auto-grant, I suggest that racial completionist should also require an interesting trade-off and not be auto-granted either...

Amen! Say no to more power creep.

I say we NERF THE RACISTS!