Please fix this EXPLOIT!

[banjo174]

for the people doing 36 straight epic lives, that have used up first time bonus for NHE&R...

Well theres your problem. You can do multiple epic lives. For instance, you could theoretically knockout 2 runs going 20-30 on r1 getting first time bonuses, there is more than enough quests for this. Then a third run on Elite and Hard bonuses, a fourth run using normals and slayers. Then you TR, it only takes about 8-15 hours of play time depending on how zergy I feel like being to go 1-20 again, then you knockout another 4 epic lives easily.

Ever thought about that? Instead of doing bad xp methods in epics, just reset them through a TR

[Varr]

We are all on different hamster wheels, no harm if some prefers the WK opts hamster wheel. If you log and there are 6 groups all doing WK opts, no complete........post something you want to do or solo. Is very easy to control the wheel you put your little avatars feet on. Filling posts is very easy at any level and any server if you have a good or better reputation. If you post and can not fill, that is a different issue than game mechanics.

[Lonnbeimnech]

Well theres your problem. You can do multiple epic lives. For instance, you could theoretically knockout 2 runs going 20-30 on r1 getting first time bonuses, there is more than enough quests for this. Then a third run on Elite and Hard bonuses, a fourth run using normals and slayers. Then you TR, it only takes about 8-15 hours of play time depending on how zergy I feel like being to go 1-20 again, then you knockout another 4 epic lives easily.

Ever thought about that? Instead of doing bad xp methods in epics, just reset them through a TR

No, its not MY problem.
I'm not talking about myself farming epic past lives.
Ever thought about that, wiseguy?

[AbyssalMage]

Agreed. Unless someone can share some information to prove that doing this wizard king opt farm is better experience per minute. I would rather continue getting GOOD xp on reaper first time bonuses

There is a post where the xp/min was done for wiz king, S/R/E (Kings, Orchard, Wyrm), and dailies (with and without Von 5).
S/R/E was best
Wiz was second
Dailies 3rd
Literally everything else

(From memory) SRE is about an hour (30 to 45 minutes faster) faster than Wiz Kings. Unfortunately it can only be used once per life.

Dailies have multiple shortcomings. But have the advantage of providing a short defined window of play.

For reference, Wiz King is ~8 to 9 hours of grind for level 20 to 30.

[banjo174]

No, its not MY problem.
I'm not talking about myself farming epic past lives.
Ever thought about that, wiseguy?

You are taking an active role in defending this idea as if it were a good idea though. It is almost as if you are attempting to prove that it is a better idea than the opposing ideas which have been proposed. So, if you would like to continue to actively defend this idea as if it were a good idea, then it is kind of your problem.

I don't care how other people play the game, however if they want to attempt to prove their idea the best, an idea that is based on time efficiency with experience. Then they better be prepared to back it up mathematically.

[banjo174]

There is a post where the xp/min was done for wiz king, S/R/E (Kings, Orchard, Wyrm), and dailies (with and without Von 5).
S/R/E was best
Wiz was second
Dailies 3rd
Literally everything else

(From memory) SRE is about an hour (30 to 45 minutes faster) faster than Wiz Kings. Unfortunately it can only be used once per life.

Dailies have multiple shortcomings. But have the advantage of providing a short defined window of play.

For reference, Wiz King is ~8 to 9 hours of grind for level 20 to 30.

Who was this information based off of, in terms of quest completion speed? Because yes, depending on the power level of the player, I will say that reaper is not nearly the fastest method of attaining experience. However, as the players get stronger, reaper becomes far better experience per minute.

[Lonnbeimnech]

You are taking an active role in defending this idea as if it were a good idea though. It is almost as if you are attempting to prove that it is a better idea than the opposing ideas which have been proposed. So, if you would like to continue to actively defend this idea as if it were a good idea, then it is kind of your problem.

I don't care how other people play the game, however if they want to attempt to prove their idea the best, an idea that is based on time efficiency with experience. Then they better be prepared to back it up mathematically.

More like you don't understand why someone would do this, and I was trying to explain it... don't know why you are taking an active role in obfuscating it, acting like no one would do this, that no one does do it, nothing to see here folks, move along...

And if you don't care how others play the game, why are you even in this discussion???

[AbyssalMage]

A common practice on Argo (in the past) w/"new" epic character (I.e. all Ed's unlocked)
20 to 30 doing EE (this was before Reaper) specifically hitting Saga's to 30, ER. Collect Saga's w/ xp potion, Dailies, King's Forest, and finish with Wyrm. Wait timer out and ER/TR. If they skipped the TR they then did Wiz 20 to 30 and did ER/TR. It allows stupid fast PL's for those who can stomach the grind.

[kain741]

Epic BB needs to reset on ETR, yes. But that only helps people running consecutive ETRs and doesn't fix the overall problem. EE and Epic Reaper is not for most players and this is a huge part of the problem. Grazing hits in Legendary is also a huge part of the problem making it so Legendary quests aren't filling the xp gap. But the biggest problem is there are very few epic quests to run in the first place. And this is why we have people running dailies like this. You wouldn't need dailies if you had hundreds of epic quests to run.

I fear by reading this statement you don't fully understand who is running WK farms and why. If you're running just one life from 20-30 no one will dispute that running variety of quests on r1 with a mix of slayers is faster. It's those that need to run many eTRs that are partaking in the WK because the xp is there and they aren't always trying to find more.

[Whaldorf]

This is just from a few hours of playing. Of course I have to solo everything since everyone on my server is busy cheating. There are absolutely no 20+ groups for anything else ever. Is this really how you want your game to be played? All the content ignored with only a single old quest being exploited.

how is this cheating? isnt this just an in game mechanic that people are taking advantage of?

[HungarianRhapsody]

I fear by reading this statement you don't fully understand who is running WK farms and why. If you're running just one life from 20-30 no one will dispute that running variety of quests on r1 with a mix of slayers is faster. It's those that need to run many eTRs that are partaking in the WK because the xp is there and they aren't always trying to find more.

If you're running many epic lives in a row, then you're an idiot.

Running two epic lives, a heroic life, amd then two more epic lives will be substantially faster than trying to run 4 epic lives in a row. Exactly because of the first time bonuses.

There are only 36 Epic lives that you can possibly run anyway, so.you might as well get a heroic life in there every two epic lives (at least) since you're going to run out of epic lives to run soon enough.

...or not soon, I suppose, if you're running epic life after epic life.

[banjo174]

If you're running many epic lives in a row, then you're an idiot.

Running two epic lives, a heroic life, amd then two more epic lives will be substantially faster than trying to run 4 epic lives in a row. Exactly because of the first time bonuses.

There are only 36 Epic lives that you can possibly run anyway, so.you might as well get a heroic life in there every two epic lives (at least) since you're going to run out of epic lives to run soon enough.

...or not soon, I suppose, if you're running epic life after epic life.

Hear hear!

[askrj1]

This is just from a few hours of playing. Of course I have to solo everything since everyone on my server is busy cheating. There are absolutely no 20+ groups for anything else ever. Is this really how you want your game to be played? All the content ignored with only a single old quest being exploited.

If you have any regular leveling group that can run E/RBBs together that's perfectly fine, but when you see a pug WK with a level 21, one 25 and a 28 each capable of soloing a tower quickly for 5min completions you really don't have much in the way of running quests together.

To be fair I ran about 2-3 levels worth of WK optionals this life so far (first run to 30, now 29). The problem is WK opts are one of the easiest XP options when you have a long grind ahead. I don't particularly like burning my brains out on WK unless I'm in a hurry to 30 or out of options (like when I was leveling my tank).

WK isn't even the worst XP "exploit" the game has had you actually have to run it. (The following now fixed/changed) There were people who abused broken Sagas (some now banned), duping XP stones and the good old Crucible entrance opts that people even macro'd to do. With all the grind added naturally people will settle on the most "comfortable" way of getting XP.

I do find this mentality particularly frustrating on Thelanis. People just want to run EH raids for an easy completion, a failed run will cause the party to disintegrate rather than encourage to try again with new strategies (or just go back in on EH/EN), and is a server that has posts for Wiz King opts up more often than any other epic quest. Unfortunately between still being on the TR train and being in a mostly inactive guild, I haven't been able to really try and help the Reaper Raid issue, but I do try to do my part for questing. I never do the WK optional farm and always post LFMs when I'm running. I typically have my parties fill even with WK options competing against them, which shows not everyone wants just easy XP. Simply post LFMs yourself, and that is the best way to combat this. There are still a lot of players that are newer/purely social and see what is available in the LFM panel as their options of what to play. Don't make WK Optionals the only option and you can help break people of that habit.

If only more people used microphones, though...

If you run in active guilds or relatively static groups that's less of an issue, but when you've waited for 30 minutes for a PUG to fill most people are not in the mood for a 50 minute rerun to test something else that might or might not work. Thelanis does fill raids, but not always quickly depending on the time of the day. This is also coming at a point that all the newest raids have already been around for a while and there is little to explore in terms of options. When you're in a PUG you also cannot reliably expect people to be in their A-game or be able to bring a more useful alt, if they have any.

I do try to post LFMs too, but between timezones and people wanting to maximize their RXP as well I don't seem to catch much traction since I mostly go on EBB levels.

Mics are the least of your problems if you ask me. I can understand if you were in a coordinated run that 12 people were all ears and responded well, but little content in DDO requires that level of timing either.

PS: For those who say WK is not good XP/min, once get on the train it's ~1M/hr with a pot and a decent group bringing in 5min runs. You only really see where this shines if you don't have reliable groups to roll content with.

[slarden]

I can't believe people run this nonsense. I guess maybe to get to 30 faster to get first time reaper bonuses - but omg how boring.

[banjo174]

I can't believe people run this nonsense. I guess maybe to get to 30 faster to get first time reaper bonuses - but omg how boring.

If they do this over and over, they will crash and burn. in the end not only are people who get first time bonuses getting more xp per minute. But they are also keeping their momentum, because they are only doing each quest once per life, so they are keeping a refreshed perspective.

[Gywiden]

I fear by reading this statement you don't fully understand who is running WK farms and why. If you're running just one life from 20-30 no one will dispute that running variety of quests on r1 with a mix of slayers is faster. It's those that need to run many eTRs that are partaking in the WK because the xp is there and they aren't always trying to find more.

I have dailies I run in epic whether or not I do eTR. And I don't do back to back eTRs because it is inefficient. I still run out of new quests to do in epic. I never do in heroic. You assume everyone is running R1. I don't do reaper in epic. I don't do much elite in epic. Lots of players don't. What I said holds true in those cases.

I get that the problem is worse if you do back to back eTRs, but epic XP is still terrible either way and there is an easy solution to epic first time bonus. Don't do eTRs back to back.

[Emerge2012]

I have dailies I run in epic whether or not I do eTR. And I don't do back to back eTRs because it is inefficient. I still run out of new quests to do in epic. I never do in heroic. You assume everyone is running R1. I don't do reaper in epic. I don't do much elite in epic. Lots of players don't. What I said holds true in those cases.

I get that the problem is worse if you do back to back eTRs, but epic XP is still terrible either way and there is an easy solution to epic first time bonus. Don't do eTRs back to back.

Wiz king opt farming is the fastest xp in the game by a significant margin and it's absolutely viable to run multiple ETR's consecutively due to this. First time R1 bonuses in epic can't hold a candle to full time opt farming.

[askrj1]

For those that mention that it's not efficient to do multiple epic lives, do consider not everyone is intending to run everything "efficiently". I might be in a build I like to spend more time in epics, or I might not be fond of doing epic at all on something I don't like running on but just did for the class/racial. I could hop out at 20, burn a day or 2 in WK and hop out with an epic life, or spend a grueling week trying to quest with it if I can't find decent parties to go with. Or you know, maybe they finished their racials and class TRs and are trying to wrap up the last few epic lives.

Wiz king opt farming is the fastest xp in the game by a significant margin and it's absolutely viable to run multiple ETR's consecutively due to this. First time R1 bonuses in epic can't hold a candle to full time opt farming.

I think the main issue is WK can be rather consistently be farmed even if you're not optimally built or geared. It's good XP/min but it's not top. There are a handful of faster XP quests and explorers but they're not abundant throughout the entire epic range and slayers are not repeatable. Quests are also not repeatable within the day for the same XP/min, making WK still the only reliable grind.

[janave]

They are skipping chests Loot, Reaper EXP, Monster Manual kicks, Sentient EXP, Favor rewards, NPC rewards/Renown, Possibly Saga rewards, and Myth &| Reaper bonused loots.

..I dont think a fix is necessary. It is already the worse option to other choices.

[acemonkey]

Wiz king opt farming is the fastest xp in the game by a significant margin and it's absolutely viable to run multiple ETR's consecutively due to this. First time R1 bonuses in epic can't hold a candle to full time opt farming.

Faster than epic otto & improved epic otto? THAT'S FAST!

I bet they switch things around soon, probably make the djinni and efreet only give xp if you use the seal to bypass rather than fighting them, and cut hafez and hami to half the current value. Wizking farming would go from 175% to 50%.

They could make nongrinders that like to do sands every life happy and make the djinni and efreet give 50% only if you use the seal, cut hafez and hami in half to 25% and still have the same amount of xp available but only if you do 2 other missions in preparation. That would increase the optional xp from 175% to 200% but only for people doing it the "SSG approved" slow way.