EK is a better PM than PM

[tcosta1982]

Hi Devs and fellow Players,

I've been playing since roughly 2009 and have thoroughly enjoyed the game all this time. My favorite class is Wizard and I have always loved playing all forms of the Undead via Palemaster(PM). When Vampire went from level 12 to level 6, I was beyond happy and the capstone was amazing.

However, the recent changes in Eldritch Knight(EK) have made me furious!!!

My Palemaster, if he invests 40 points in his tree, his passive gives him 60 Nullification (0.75 Null + 0.75 USP). There are ZERO enhancements to add Nullification directly from this tree. However, if I take EK and only take a few points in the tree, I can get more than that, plus huge amounts of Melee Power and free SLAs. The only real saving grace of MY tree is the Critical profile and the Shrouds.

I know there is a plan to update PM, but as a PM main player, I just can't justify more than 10-20 pts by end game without it feeling like I'm screwing myself out of build strength. On top of all of this, the Tier 5 of PM is absolutely worthless beyond Improved Shrouding, which is only a minor benefit. And don't even get me started on the worthlessness of the SLAs that we get. It's among the ONLY SLAs that can't benefit from metamagic at all, plus only half spellpower.

Please devs, tell me that the EK is going to get a nerf. Right now, when I see them it's like having a Warlock in a party and I know there is no way to compete in damage, crowd control or survivability. I might as well just pike and get a 'sammich'. I know that the PM is going to get a boost soon, but I'd much rather that the EK is knocked down a peg while we wait.

Thanks!

[Memnir]

I know that the PM is going to get a boost soon, but I'd much rather that the EK is knocked down a peg while we wait.

Wow. That's some industrial-grade petulance happening. I can't have the glittery goodness - so nobody should.

Just be patient, and everybody wins. EKs sucked for years. PMs haven't. And pretty soon, PM and AM will catch up and likely be the FotM again. But no need to kick over the other kids' sandcastle just because yours isn't the prettiest one at the moment.

[tcosta1982]

Wow. That's some industrial-grade petulance happening. I can't have the glittery goodness - so nobody should.

That's not what I'm saying at all. This is basic building 101. Build your sand castle, but there's no reason to build it on top of mine. They got USP that's way more than anything else. It should have been Impulse or something elemental or even Melee Power. The USP means it's universally better than everyone else's spellpower, no matter what.

[kain741]

That's not what I'm saying at all. This is basic building 101. Build your sand castle, but there's no reason to build it on top of mine. They got USP that's way more than anything else. It should have been Impulse or something elemental or even Melee Power. The USP means it's universally better than everyone else's spellpower, no matter what.

If you are building a PM solely for the spell power, then I think you are missing it's biggest benefit over all other casters.

[tcosta1982]

If you are building a PM solely for the spell power, then I think you are missing it's biggest benefit over all other casters.

I'm not building solely for the spell power, but it's a big factor in your ability to damage and self-heal, especially in Reaper. I know that the shrouds give you amazing immunities and other good abilities and am not knocking that.

I hope you can see that my complaints about the SLAs and Tier 5 abilities are valid, especially when compared with almost all other trees available to most classes.

[kain741]

I'm going to go on a limb and say 90% of people who build PMs don't care the first thing about their damage with any melee attacks and probably 50% don't care about their damage at all. My PM has over 1200 negative SP and nearly 300% neg amp without touching EK at all so you can be just fine without it. The primary focus of most people in PM tree is a DC focus.

[Memnir]

I hope you can see that my complaints about the SLAs and Tier 5 abilities are valid, especially when compared with almost all other trees available to most classes.

And that's why they're getting updated, yeah?
Maybe wait to see what those updates look like before frothing at the bit to trash the other kids' new toys?

[Hobgoblin]

if that is what your worried about why not put points into ek on your pm for your sla?

wow that was a lot of abbreviations

[tcosta1982]

if that is what your worried about why not put points into ek on your pm for your sla?

Yeah, that's what I'm doing for now. I'm not saying it HAS to be changed. I just think that it's worth getting my voice out there. In order to play how I want right now, I need to splash another tree, which I'm not fond of.

DDO is a great game for many reasons, not the least of which is that you can make what you want, how you want. When that is impeded by a choice I have to make that I don't want to make, the fun is a little bit less for me. I don't think that EK players need to be hurt, but I think it's a matter of overcorrection on the power level of EK. At it's current power level, even Reaper is easy mode.

Again, it's just my two cents. Make of it what you will.

[Memnir]

However, the recent changes in Eldritch Knight(EK) have made me furious!!!
I know that the PM is going to get a boost soon, but I'd much rather that the EK is knocked down a peg while we wait.

I don't think that EK players need to be hurt

Not hurt, just knocked down a peg? Now, before the PM update. Because you're furious.
Mmmmkay.

Make of it what you will.

I can only make of it what you made of it.

[kain741]

At it's current power level, even Reaper is easy mode.

Again, it's just my two cents. Make of it what you will.

But here is the issue. If that is the case and reaper is easy, then what you are doing is openly asking for a nerf. Second, you only mentioned R1. I wouldn't typify that reaper is easy because you can blow through R1 as literally any build in the game can do that. Share a video of you soloing some high skull (R7+) content if you want to substantiate that it is easy and that EK is too OP.

[tcosta1982]

But here is the issue. If that is the case and reaper is easy, then what you are doing is openly asking for a nerf. Second, you only mentioned R1. I wouldn't typify that reaper is easy because you can blow through R1 as literally any build in the game can do that. Share a video of you soloing some high skull (R7+) content if you want to substantiate that it is easy and that EK is too OP.

I generally only run R1-R3 as I only have about 14 Reaper Points to work with and only 3x ETR. At this play level, EK or Warlock makes it easy mode. Most other builds have a struggle of some kind or need a party to succeed at content. I play with a constant party and it's a general consensus among us. If we aren't the normal players then that's ok, maybe others find it a lot easier.

[kain741]

I generally only run R1-R3 as I only have about 14 Reaper Points to work with and only 3x ETR. At this play level, EK or Warlock makes it easy mode. Most other builds have a struggle of some kind or need a party to succeed at content. I play with a constant party and it's a general consensus among us. If we aren't the normal players then that's ok, maybe others find it a lot easier.

Ah, maybe it's not fair then to call for a nerf then or "easy mode"??

Since you don't high reapers I'll share with you that spell power for a PM loses value and DC pick up value as the difficulty goes up. This is the the same case for warlocks. Just because you have tested something on low skulls does not necessarily mean it is a good representation of the full spectrum and it makes sense to ask the devs to nerf the build.

[Alled78]

Hi Devs and fellow Players,

I've been playing since roughly 2009 and have thoroughly enjoyed the game all this time. My favorite class is Wizard and I have always loved playing all forms of the Undead via Palemaster(PM). When Vampire went from level 12 to level 6, I was beyond happy and the capstone was amazing.

However, the recent changes in Eldritch Knight(EK) have made me furious!!!

My Palemaster, if he invests 40 points in his tree, his passive gives him 60 Nullification (0.75 Null + 0.75 USP). There are ZERO enhancements to add Nullification directly from this tree. However, if I take EK and only take a few points in the tree, I can get more than that, plus huge amounts of Melee Power and free SLAs. The only real saving grace of MY tree is the Critical profile and the Shrouds.

I know there is a plan to update PM, but as a PM main player, I just can't justify more than 10-20 pts by end game without it feeling like I'm screwing myself out of build strength. On top of all of this, the Tier 5 of PM is absolutely worthless beyond Improved Shrouding, which is only a minor benefit. And don't even get me started on the worthlessness of the SLAs that we get. It's among the ONLY SLAs that can't benefit from metamagic at all, plus only half spellpower.

Please devs, tell me that the EK is going to get a nerf. Right now, when I see them it's like having a Warlock in a party and I know there is no way to compete in damage, crowd control or survivability. I might as well just pike and get a 'sammich'. I know that the PM is going to get a boost soon, but I'd much rather that the EK is knocked down a peg while we wait.

Thanks!

When i was playing my ek life (playing r7 at cap) i usually cant reach enemies because the pm in my party killed them from distance.
Are you sure you are playing a pm at full of his potential?

[Lonnbeimnech]

Fortunately, you get 80 AP, so you can put some into ek for the 40-50 spell power.

[JOTMON]

Hi Devs and fellow Players,

I've been playing since roughly 2009 and have thoroughly enjoyed the game all this time. My favorite class is Wizard and I have always loved playing all forms of the Undead via Palemaster(PM). When Vampire went from level 12 to level 6, I was beyond happy and the capstone was amazing.

However, the recent changes in Eldritch Knight(EK) have made me furious!!!

My Palemaster, if he invests 40 points in his tree, his passive gives him 60 Nullification (0.75 Null + 0.75 USP). There are ZERO enhancements to add Nullification directly from this tree. However, if I take EK and only take a few points in the tree, I can get more than that, plus huge amounts of Melee Power and free SLAs. The only real saving grace of MY tree is the Critical profile and the Shrouds.

I know there is a plan to update PM, but as a PM main player, I just can't justify more than 10-20 pts by end game without it feeling like I'm screwing myself out of build strength. On top of all of this, the Tier 5 of PM is absolutely worthless beyond Improved Shrouding, which is only a minor benefit. And don't even get me started on the worthlessness of the SLAs that we get. It's among the ONLY SLAs that can't benefit from metamagic at all, plus only half spellpower.

Please devs, tell me that the EK is going to get a nerf. Right now, when I see them it's like having a Warlock in a party and I know there is no way to compete in damage, crowd control or survivability. I might as well just pike and get a 'sammich'. I know that the PM is going to get a boost soon, but I'd much rather that the EK is knocked down a peg while we wait.

Thanks!

I don't understand your complaint.

As a wizard you have access to PM and Eldritch knight and enough Action Points to spend in both.

Whining about warlock or EK is pointless..

if you cant compete then maybe going for a sammich is a good idea because they are not the problem.

[Thrudh]

Yeah, that's what I'm doing for now. I'm not saying it HAS to be changed. I just think that it's worth getting my voice out there. In order to play how I want right now, I need to splash another tree, which I'm not fond of.

What? What's wrong with splashing another tree??

Can you even put 80 points into one tree?

You're not making any sense at all.

I do hope they make PM better, especially the SLAs, but there's no reason to be upset that you "have to" put some points into EK, another WIZARD tree.

[Nimdeadlee]

I know there is a plan to update PM

I'm pretty sure the devs have backed away from this. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for AM or PM updates, I think the EK revamp was the wizard pass.

[Memnir]

I'm pretty sure the devs have backed away from this. I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for AM or PM updates, I think the EK revamp was the wizard pass.

[NemesisAlien]

Hey hey, i havent started my undead monk life, please dont nerf anything before i finish it thank you very the much...