New player, Ideas to entice them to stay.

[Captain_Wizbang]

This thread I hope gains traction, and offers some good ideas. We need to do something for new player retention. WE ALL depend on this. And IMHO it's not being addressed.

Everyone here has a fair amount of smarts, or you wouldn't be going past shipwreck shore, so why not put those smarts to work with some good ideas to improve the new players experience.


In no particular order, and not in one post.....

Viewers box. Have some kind of area, or ghosted character to enter raids with high level toons.

How cool would it be to let new players get glimpse of the animations of high end battle. Not an out-of game stream, maybe an overlay would work.

I streamed LTS and VoN 5/6 EE earlier this week for the 4 youngling's of our PnP group that Ive posted about trying to join us here. They saw a classic raid, how teamwork and tactics work, spell animations that blew them away, the traps, the deaths. Part 6 of VoN with it's floating layout and our beloved Vella & Sor'jek in TS. The DM voice overs and backstory opened up their eyes to some cool stories.

That stream hooked them, now I have to hold their hand through the confusing system a new player sees. (I've posted about that many times)

Have global or social panel alerts to raids that are starting for them to "join" & watch.

[Captain_Wizbang]

snip*

[Hafeal]

Well, there have been hundreds, if not thousands of posts on new player retention, going back to 2006.

I think the open box world of DDO is great.

The problem is DDO has a very steep learning curve and no incentive for vets to participate in that process other than sheer goodwill. I have felt a new starter area would help. Hopefully Sharn will have one. We were supposed to get one with EVeningstar, going backwards. Still waiting.

Other things that would help? From another thread:

1) A revamped and updated Favor system - especially for the older Houses.
2) A revamped character sheet with easier to understand breakdowns of your stats. Would love to have it printable or on an app for your phone, but that is likely pie in the sky.
3) A NEW starter area. We have needed this going back to MoTU.
4) A revamped and updated Quest Log. Between the log and Compendium it is ridiculous. And there should be a visiual in the quest journal showing you the highest difficulty you have completed a quest.
5) Guildship battles. Fight in the skies you skurvydogs! Set it up as Guild v Guild with a leaderboard. Instead of mano a mano, make it group incentivized.
6) Improved Enhancement UI - we have so many trees and choices now it is really clunky to move among them and lock and unlock to remember where the choices are. Can we not have a choice to fill the screen with a 2 rosw?

[Renvar]

One of the biggest things, I think, is navigating the quest log and the adventure compendium.

I don't think we need a viewers box for raids in game. Twitch and videos work fine for that.

We need to organize the 500 some quests into a cohesive set of story lines, using sagas

Create a Korthos saga.
Create a Harbor saga.
Create a WW-STK-Threnal saga.
Create a Necro 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 saga.
Create a shroud flaggers - Shroud - Hox, Vod, Devils of Amrath - ToD saga
Create a GH + Reavers Refuge + return to GH + FoT saga
Create a saga linking all the house J level 5-13 quests together.

Then, give the compendium a Sagas tab that shows the saga name, giver, and level range and, if you have the saga, a visual progression meter (like the cannith crafting level meter) and a (4/13) counter and what the completed quests are the "to be done" quests and the standard progression.

That would be very helpful, imo.

[Ralmeth]

I'm always open to an idea to help new players out, but this is not a good idea. Raids are kind of weird in that they are not how a typical 6-player quest plays out, and will definitely not be the experience of new players. Instead, they are probably going to try to solo or short-man 6-player quests. When I was a new player way back in 2006, I hated playing with experienced players because they would zerg ahead and leave you to get lost and die. Waterworks was the worst offender for this, back in the day. This hasn't really changed, in that experienced players will want to run ahead while newer players spend time looking around. Heck, I joined up with a group for one of the new quests I hadn't run yet, and I hated that I couldn't take my time and explore things at my own pace, at least the first time through.

Instead, I would suggest the following:

LFM Panel
This should be reviewed to see if there is a way to make this more new player friendly, to help people find groups of like-minded people.

Tutorial Quests
Help new players with the learning curve by offering some in-game advice in a role-playing kind of fashion. In particular, add an optional tutorial quest when travelling from Korthos to the Harbor for the first time. This should be a ship-board quest where a guide gives advice on what to expect once they reach Stormreach, helpful tidbits for new players, etc. Of course, the quest should be fun, with perhaps a few encounters along the way, to mix in with advice. If done correctly, the advice would be provided in a story-like fashion. At the end of the journey, the guide suggests they ask for a particular NPC at the docks if they need any help.

Helpful NPCs
Add a NPC in the harbor, down by the docks, that the guide refers to in the tutorial quest, where additional advice can be given, people can ask questions, etc. The idea wouldn't be to give the advice on everything in DDO, but instead to answer some common questions they might have about the Harbor area, as well as some other game-play tips.

If the tutorial quest / helpful NPC idea is positively received, then additional, optional transition quests and NPC guides could be added when people transition from the Harbor to the Marketplace for the first time, or to one of the various Houses for the first time. I know there are NPC greeters to each house, but I don't think they're terribly helpful (other than to greet you). Obviously, these would all be optional that experienced players could simply bypass, but I would think this would help newer players transition better.

[0ldschool]

FYI, I found this thread only because of the link to it in the DDO Discussions forum.
__________________________________________________ ___________________________

I’m a 12 week’ish newbie. Some of you may recognize me from my incessant posts asking for help in understanding this game. I have been part of two recent threads on this topic that I can think of, probably more. Here they are.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...t-should-we-do
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ds-an-overhaul

My biggest problem was figuring out exactly what I was supposed to be doing after Korthos. That topic is covered in the second link that I posted. This needs desperate attention. The NPC helping you through the Marketplace quests was mentioned in the above thread and again here, and I think that is a very good idea. It took some serious dedication on my part to work through this and find my way forward. I estimate I have probably played 100-120 hours since I’ve started. In that time, I’ve conservatively spent 40 hours on this forum, first just searching past threads for knowledge, then later starting to post for help. I’ve also spent at least 20 hours on DDOwiki, probably more. Without either one of those, I would have probably walked away. There is a TON to learn here, and the game itself provides almost no guidance in learning it. Even once I learned to hit ‘P’ for the compendium, I struggled and STILL to this day struggle to figure out where to go next.

I said this in another thread, but this game gives the very distinct impression to new players that it has been abandoned. The always empty weapons broker in House D (where the NPC in Marketplace tells you to go for anything over 1500 gp) and the pathetic links at the top of this forum page. When is the last time you clicked on ‘The game’ up there and checked out the ‘Game Guides’. They are not even close to what is needed for a new player. I want to find out what I’m supposed to be doing in the Marketplace, and I get “Guide to the Eldritch Device”, I still don’t know what that is. I click on ‘News’ and then ‘events’, to see when this Night Revels thing is that everyone talks about. What do I see? The DDO Winter Games are starting in January 2014!! Really? That is just pathetic, and sends the worst possible message to a new player. The fact that it has been abandoned is quite telling.

I feel like the game is constantly trying to push me away and I have to fight it to a draw just to stick around. Also, there may not be much point in talking about how to attract and keep new players if the owners have decided that it is not cost effective to do so, and that their efforts are better spent in milking deep-pocketed vets with XP potions and Hearts of Wood and all of that reincarnation / power creep stuff, things that a newbie like me knows nothing about. This may be the best short-term way to keep the doors open, but it bodes very poorly for the future of the game. I hope that I’m wrong about this.

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the inventory management system, which is universally loathed from what I've read on these forums. It is another major obstacle to keeping a newbie around. You throw a ton of loot at us, and then provide no way to keep that loot around (without buying very expensive inventory and bank slots). I finally figured out that I simply could not keep it all, and started selling all of my loot in the AH or at brokers, building up my plat to buy things that I could actually use. Getting loot from a quest and then just selling it all is not fun, but it's required. Thanks for the 50+ bastard sword, docent, sceptre, and shield drops for my rogue mechanic, along with ONE great crossbow drop in over 2 months!

[Captain_Wizbang]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ds-an-overhaul

My biggest problem was figuring out exactly what I was supposed to be doing after Korthos. That topic is covered in the second link that I posted. This needs desperate attention. The NPC helping you through the Marketplace quests was mentioned in the above thread and again here, and I think that is a very good idea. It took some serious dedication on my part to work through this and find my way forward. I estimate I have probably played 100-120 hours since I’ve started. In that time, I’ve conservatively spent 40 hours on this forum, first just searching past threads for knowledge, then later starting to post for help. I’ve also spent at least 20 hours on DDOwiki, probably more. Without either one of those, I would have probably walked away. There is a TON to learn here, and the game itself provides almost no guidance in learning it. Even once I learned to hit ‘P’ for the compendium, I struggled and STILL to this day struggle to figure out where to go next.

I said this in another thread, but this game gives the very distinct impression to new players that it has been abandoned. The always empty weapons broker in House D (where the NPC in Marketplace tells you to go for anything over 1500 gp) and the pathetic links at the top of this forum page. When is the last time you clicked on ‘The game’ up there and checked out the ‘Game Guides’. They are not even close to what is needed for a new player. I want to find out what I’m supposed to be doing in the Marketplace, and I get “Guide to the Eldritch Device”, I still don’t know what that is. I click on ‘News’ and then ‘events’, to see when this Night Revels thing is that everyone talks about. What do I see? The DDO Winter Games are starting in January 2014!! Really? That is just pathetic, and sends the worst possible message to a new player. The fact that it has been abandoned is quite telling.

I feel like the game is constantly trying to push me away and I have to fight it to a draw just to stick around. Also, there may not be much point in talking about how to attract and keep new players if the owners have decided that it is not cost effective to do so, and that their efforts are better spent in milking deep-pocketed vets with XP potions and Hearts of Wood and all of that reincarnation / power creep stuff, things that a newbie like me knows nothing about. This may be the best short-term way to keep the doors open, but it bodes very poorly for the future of the game. I hope that I’m wrong about this.

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

EDIT: I forgot to mention the inventory management system, which is universally loathed from what I've read on these forums. It is another major obstacle to keeping a newbie around. You throw a ton of loot at us, and then provide no way to keep that loot around (without buying very expensive inventory and bank slots). I finally figured out that I simply could not keep it all, and started selling all of my loot in the AH or at brokers, building up my plat to buy things that I could actually use. Getting loot from a quest and then just selling it all is not fun, but it's required. Thanks for the 50+ bastard sword, docent, sceptre, and shield drops for my rogue mechanic, along with ONE great crossbow drop in over 2 months!

You are reflecting almost word for word ALL of the new players I talk to on Korthos and in the harbor. Tonight, these very topics came up as a matter of fact. Just think of how many layers NEVER come here. The numbers are staggering.

You are not the first one to say this, and it is a sentiment shared by people here on forums, but they wont speak up for fear of falling out of favor with staff. Thats legit, and a lot of you people know it.

Thank you for replying, It is YOU the new player that are MORE important than anyone else in this game. We need more new player, fact.

[Coffey]

I think hand held quests on everything relevant to the game should have been included from day 1. Opt out of beginner quest mode from the beginning like Runescape has for veterans starting a new character.

A trace line option to the next quest would be helpful. Perhaps a form of cut-scene tutorial for leveling up on feat selection spending AP adding relevant ability points as a selection option at your relevant trainer.

Cut-scene tutorials for anything that could possible help along the way.

Free hearts of wood at NPC to correct build mistakes.

An easy to find continuously updated compendium of DDO information for players in a logical progression for new players and for general referencing afterwards for all players.
Include all the lore in there too in a separate section for referencing. Maps for referencing too.

[Itchybeard]

FYI, I found this thread only because of the link to it in the DDO Discussions forum.
SNIP

Please take my barely educated opinion with a huge grain of salt.

Hey there, Oldschool.

I'm Itchybeard, and I've been playing DDO a long time. I don't often post much, but your recent post compelled me to toss my 2 copper into the conversation. I understand your frustration, but I don't think your opinions are ill-founded or should be observed with a grain of salt.

1. Finding a "direction" is extremely difficult for most new players. When I started, I rather liked the idea of not having my hand held to and fro, but I can see how a lack of pointers/NPCs to guide you might be annoying. I don't think DDO was ever truly marketed to the masses, so perhaps the original game designers just assumed everyone would navigate their way through the dark.

2. DDO certainly has a steep learning curve. In some ways, I kind of enjoy multiple layers to dissect and manipulate. I may be an outlier on this point. From your perspective, requiring hundreds of hours on forums/ddowiki to get around seems like overkill. I'm 100% in favor of spending time on the wiki (and vids related to articles there), but absolutely NEEDING to spend time there is kinda silly, in my view. You should be able to reach the Harbor and simply continue adventuring. The wiki is an awesome resource I use daily, but I would hate to feel forced into using it just to survive.

3. Is the game pushing you away? Perhaps. The devs certainly have to market to an audience which will actually pay money for the product they provide... this is common sense. However, greater attention could certainly be given to the consistency with which new systems are explained to the novice. I wish there was a huge building somewhere with lights all around it with a neon sign pointing towards it... "Come here to learn about new stuff in DDO!" Perhaps the Hall of Heroes can serve this purpose. Maybe the devs can give us an 'arium' to which we can easily 'travel' from anywhere and learn both basic & advanced material.

In semi-conclusion, I may not be completely in your court when it comes to annoyances or frustrations regarding DDO. I don't really have to be; I can at least sympathize. To take it further, I can empathize by putting myself in your shoes and looking at the game the way you do (or might do). I can provide a tiny bit of my own knowledge, as well as offer what meager insights I've attained over the years.

Ask me anything you like.

I don't care what server you use (I'm on Ghallanda). I don't care when you play. I don't care what class/race you play. You are welcome to ask me any/all questions you like regarding DDO. Am I an expert? Certainly not. Do others know more than I do? Absolutely. Am I qualified to even offer advice? Probably. Whether or not I can actually help you can be learned in time. However, I do enjoy helping new players when I can. This is really the best I can do. I know you were not speaking to me personally, but maybe each one of us out here in DDO land who fancies themselves a "vet" can cultivate their own mentorship program with new people. Perhaps the key to solving the new-player retention issue is for each of us to step up and pull someone over and say...

"How can I help?"

Maybe this is too simplistic, but I'm willing to try. Let me know if you are interested, and we can exchange contact info. If not, no worries ^_^

[Captain_Wizbang]

"How can I help?"

Not enough of that in todays player base.

This is cool, really. But it helps one individual. And doesn't offer SSG any suggestions for improving the new player experience. Don't take me out of context. ANY POSITIVE reply to this subject is spot on.

[0ldschool]

Hey there, Oldschool.

I'm Itchybeard, and I've been playing DDO a long time. I don't often post much, but your recent post compelled me to toss my 2 copper into the conversation. I understand your frustration, but I don't think your opinions are ill-founded or should be observed with a grain of salt.

1. Finding a "direction" is extremely difficult for most new players. When I started, I rather liked the idea of not having my hand held to and fro, but I can see how a lack of pointers/NPCs to guide you might be annoying. I don't think DDO was ever truly marketed to the masses, so perhaps the original game designers just assumed everyone would navigate their way through the dark.

2. DDO certainly has a steep learning curve. In some ways, I kind of enjoy multiple layers to dissect and manipulate. I may be an outlier on this point. From your perspective, requiring hundreds of hours on forums/ddowiki to get around seems like overkill. I'm 100% in favor of spending time on the wiki (and vids related to articles there), but absolutely NEEDING to spend time there is kinda silly, in my view. You should be able to reach the Harbor and simply continue adventuring. The wiki is an awesome resource I use daily, but I would hate to feel forced into using it just to survive.

3. Is the game pushing you away? Perhaps. The devs certainly have to market to an audience which will actually pay money for the product they provide... this is common sense. However, greater attention could certainly be given to the consistency with which new systems are explained to the novice. I wish there was a huge building somewhere with lights all around it with a neon sign pointing towards it... "Come here to learn about new stuff in DDO!" Perhaps the Hall of Heroes can serve this purpose. Maybe the devs can give us an 'arium' to which we can easily 'travel' from anywhere and learn both basic & advanced material.

In semi-conclusion, I may not be completely in your court when it comes to annoyances or frustrations regarding DDO. I don't really have to be; I can at least sympathize. To take it further, I can empathize by putting myself in your shoes and looking at the game the way you do (or might do). I can provide a tiny bit of my own knowledge, as well as offer what meager insights I've attained over the years.

Ask me anything you like.

I don't care what server you use (I'm on Ghallanda). I don't care when you play. I don't care what class/race you play. You are welcome to ask me any/all questions you like regarding DDO. Am I an expert? Certainly not. Do others know more than I do? Absolutely. Am I qualified to even offer advice? Probably. Whether or not I can actually help you can be learned in time. However, I do enjoy helping new players when I can. This is really the best I can do. I know you were not speaking to me personally, but maybe each one of us out here in DDO land who fancies themselves a "vet" can cultivate their own mentorship program with new people. Perhaps the key to solving the new-player retention issue is for each of us to step up and pull someone over and say...

"How can I help?"

Maybe this is too simplistic, but I'm willing to try. Let me know if you are interested, and we can exchange contact info. If not, no worries ^_^

Thank you. I've said it before, but the best asset this game has may just be the vets on this board that have given me a tremendous amount of great advice, along with generous offers of their time and gear. The support given to me here has been very appreciated. But there are not thousands or even hundreds of posters here, and I don't see a lot of newbs like me looking for advice, which is ashame.

I want to be clear that I am NOT advocating for dumbing down the game. The steep learning curve is why I'm here. I feel like this game is a 1,000 layer onion and I'm peeling back a layer a week. Learning about what bonuses stack was a big challenge. What are Spell Saves? do they stack with my Staunch bracers? (Yes, even though they are both resistance bonuses) One week I took on Cannith crafting. The joy of finally stealthing Stealthy Repossession. Things I've barely scratched the surface on like Augments, or things I only hear mentioned that I know nothing about, like Greensteel, Slavers gear. Now waiting to find out what Mabar / Night Revels is like. I could go on and on, but my point is that this is all good stuff.

But without DDOwiki, I would know almost nothing about many of these complex game features. There is NO in-game guidance to help you through. To have something this layered and complex and offer no help understanding it is puzzling to say the least.

Here's a good question. Who maintains DDOwiki? Is it SSG? As a wiki, I'm guessing it's an independent entity. If so, then SSG is leaning very heavily on it to provide players with information that allows them play their game. It's practically the only users guide available for the game. What about in-game links to the relevant DDOwiki page? That would be a huge improvement. But SSG would then need to maintain the DDOwiki and make sure it is up to date. For example, the Crystal Cove loot is still out of date for many items. If a newbie does not know to use DDOwiki, or then have the patience to search it to answer their question, they are going to get frustrated.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Here's one of my ideas for Korthos

*thanks to the 3 players on G-Land that joined the lfm to take the screen shot today with my birthday cake djinn.

So what you see is an overlay box with a "twitch" type box inside it. I have zero clue how this would work, Im the idea guy, you coders figure it out. The concept came from the the DDO store overlay & functionality.

[Saekee]

I am stumped as to why SSG does not devote resources to new player retention. They do not even need to be creative about it—we have loaded up the forums with miles of threads giving indications (from vets) & feedback (from newbies). If there is anything that irks me, it is this utter neglect by them to make a red carpet at the door to new blood.

Through habit people become unaware of mediocrity around them—you forget how crummy & distasteful that waiting room was to some office once you have used it enough times. I get that. But I do not get how you can ignore such mediocrity when well-meaning folks constantly point it out & reveal its inadequacy.

[DYWYPI]

Yes, without the DDO Wiki it would be a lot harder to learn the game for a new Player. For example the 'Stone of Change' doesn't have any recipe list within the game: http://ddowiki.com/page/Stone_of_Change_-_Recipes. Therefore unless somebody tells the newbie what ingredients it accepts they'd likely never know, just from playing the game, etc. Plus a some quests have complex mechanics.

[...] But without DDOwiki, I would know almost nothing about many of these complex game features. There is NO in-game guidance to help you through. To have something this layered and complex and offer no help understanding it is puzzling to say the least.

Here's a good question. Who maintains DDOwiki? Is it SSG? As a wiki, I'm guessing it's an independent entity. ...

The DDO Wiki; is not affiliated with SSG, its mostly maintained by small handful of volunteer DDO players, but anyone can edit the pages, and you don't even have to register an account to contribute there.

[...] I streamed LTS and VoN 5/6 EE earlier this week for the 4 youngling's of our PnP group that Ive posted about trying to join us here. They saw a classic raid, how teamwork and tactics work, spell animations that blew them away, the traps, the deaths.

Actually, in the weekly Epic Elite VON PUG Raids I join most weeks, some of the players remind me of the following: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj08Ni3tklw so yeah, it normally has female heroines dressed in armour, it's upbeat and vibrant. The guy that mostly posts the LFM is a real team player; is newbie friendly, and won't tolerate any unkind people in the Raid group. :-)

[janave]

Breathing some life into Korthos and Harbor would help. Maybe a new specifically new players / characters module? Levels 2/4/6 ish with some decent progress rate. Lots of players unfortunately never get to see the better half of DDO, which is usually starting around mid levels, where enough char development is available and more interesting encounters start appearing.

[Captain_Wizbang]

The Harbor, Here we introduce links in the overlay as depicted. Why not in Korthos? It's the starter area, using a k.i.s.s. method. When player gravitate to levels 2 & up, they will be questioning weapon types, spells, etc.....
Why the djin? He transcends all of our content, in Eberron, Faerun and the upcoming Sharn expansion.

Thanks to the players on Cannith server. NOTE, there were players automatically approaching the djin while this was being done. (Im proving a point here)

[Drwaz99]

I am stumped as to why SSG does not devote resources to new player retention. They do not even need to be creative about it—we have loaded up the forums with miles of threads giving indications (from vets) & feedback (from newbies). If there is anything that irks me, it is this utter neglect by them to make a red carpet at the door to new blood.

Through habit people become unaware of mediocrity around them—you forget how crummy & distasteful that waiting room was to some office once you have used it enough times. I get that. But I do not get how you can ignore such mediocrity when well-meaning folks constantly point it out & reveal its inadequacy.

They've probably decided it's not a good ROI for what they would have to do. It's pretty clear that SSG feels it's better for them to maximize what they can get from the current group of players than spend lots of money on people who may or may not stay around with such an old game.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Marketplace from Sarlona. Thank you for the screenshot participants.
At this point we say goodbye to Oramdur, and is replaced by house and area Red Names & Famous NPC's
As we progress through these areas, the video and tutorial content is tailored to specific crafting, gear sets, saga's, raids etc.

*sorry for typos in image, too many projects going on at once for this old man.

[0ldschool]

Up next, Marketplace from Sarlona. Posting shortly

Has anyone typed up something for new players, a guide that tells you where to go and what you can do when you get off the boat in the Harbor? I've got half a mind to create a PDF with suggested quest sequences, embedded images showing where the bank, brokers, AH are, etc. and a brief description of how to use them, a description of how to use the Map and what the symbols on it mean, and Compendium knowledge. Then I would just park myself on the docks and broadcast messages to arriving players that I can help them out by emailing them the starter's guide, and maybe mail them some plat to get going. I'd be very surprised if no one in the history of DDO ever tried to work up a starter's Guide like this.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Has anyone typed up something for new players,

Yes, and some of them are awesome, The forums have been changed a while ago, and the ease of access to that content got altered. The forum moderators have those things in their "to-do" list, and no set time for those upgrades were discussed. Understandable, as SSG took over (thank you btw) they have limited time to devote to certain things.

The idea here is NOT to make more written articles, lists or whatever.

Thats the problem. New players want it now, like we all did, video, links and streaming is the answer. Keep in mind other games have these things, and that makes any of our great work done by staff and PLAYERS seem inadequate by those standards.