Bring Us The Understand Device Spell!

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/mag...643/index.html

You could even integrate this skill into gear, or simply give certain the ability to boost this spell's effectiveness!

Better yet, you could have DDO's version scale with character level............. or make it so that gear with disable device can have a use when said spell is cast!

[Memnir]

Gonna have to go with No on this one.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Gonna have to go with No on this one.

Your No needs to be reasoned if you want people to see value in it, if you don't then why even bother commenting? So what exactly is your reason?

[Lonnbeimnech]

What if that spell is already in the game, but because we cannot select Gond as a deity, no one qualifies for it...

[cdbd3rd]

Naw.

Casters already have Knock for unlocking stuff. Giving them a DD spell pushes Rogues another step towards total irrelevancy.

[Hobgoblin]

Your No needs to be reasoned if you want people to see value in it, if you don't then why even bother commenting? So what exactly is your reason?

Actually no he doesn't. Nothing says he has to explain it. As for why he is posting, lots of people see silence as assent, and he is voicing his opinion just as you step yours.



Tl; dr ,

When you pay for their sub u can tell people how and when they can respond

[blerkington]

Your No needs to be reasoned if you want people to see value in it, if you don't then why even bother commenting? So what exactly is your reason?

This is an odd reply, given the fact you've made exactly zero case at all yourself for adding this spell/effect to the game. That may even have been part of Memnir's point.

I'd say a reasonable first step in this process would be for you to make a good case for the addition. That case is conspicuously absent from your suggestion, but is something I'd expect to see from someone wanting a change, as well as an attempt to anticipate and deal with objections.

But maybe I can save us all some time with this. If interest in this thread doesn't peter out almost immediately, my prediction is you'll get more people disagreeing, maybe even one or two people agreeing, then you will get annoyed with people who disagree and imply they don't understand and/or are bad people (based on your previous form in similar threads) and then exactly nothing will happen after that.

And it doesn't take a WIS score of 20 to see all of that coming.

Thanks.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

This is an odd reply, given the fact you've made exactly zero case at all yourself for adding this spell/effect to the game. That may even have been part of Memnir's point.

I'd say a reasonable first step in this process would be for you to make a good case for the addition. That case is conspicuously absent from your suggestion, but is something I'd expect to see from someone wanting a change, as well as an attempt to anticipate and deal with objections.

But maybe I can save us all some time with this. If interest in this thread doesn't peter out almost immediately, my prediction is you'll get more people disagreeing, maybe even one or two people agreeing, then you will get annoyed with people who disagree and imply they don't understand and/or are bad people (based on your previous form in similar threads) and then exactly nothing will happen after that.

And it doesn't take a WIS score of 20 to see all of that coming.

Thanks.

Disagreeing needs to be reasoned, proclaiming something to be added needs be questioned, there has been no questioning, therefore there has been no explanation.

Wisdom and purpose both play a role in how I conduct myself, I choose to to conduct myself in a way that is socially incompatible with people with narcissistic personality disorder, the arrogance (Trait #9) of those types drives them to assume and then treat such assumption as if fact and even go as far as to act on such to the detriment of others. They put forth negativity for the sake of negativity, and therefore there is no concrete reasoning behind their negativity aside for perhaps making others miserable. Ousting these types is just as important as disadvantaging them, especially when concerning the 7th trait (Lack of empathy) in which allows them to be especially problematic. While there may be a few cultural empowerment for these types, such disables my ability to identify with any such culture that offers such.

My culture is one of inquiry, if you do not know something, admit it and proceed to inquiry.

[Discpsycho]

You could even integrate this skill into gear, or simply give certain the ability to boost this spell's effectiveness!

Inquiry: Your link says it's a Cleric spell level 3. What level would you imagine it being?

I'm not particularly in favor of this spell being added. If it's an arcane spell, it obviates Rogue and Artificer splashes, which are pretty common in heroic levels. Divine casters already have inherent with self-healing, and while Find Traps has a niche as an alternative for True Seeing for secret door finding, I feel like it's off-theme. The one exception I could see would be as a perk in a cleric domain - say, Knowledge.

The other problem I see is it that as written, it would only be accessible to super-vets. The spell only grants the ability to disable devices, so only people with a bajillion tomes, Int, skills and gear would be able to use this. This would further discourage grouping for super-vets.

More details on how this would work?

[Hobgoblin]

Disagreeing needs to be reasoned, proclaiming something to be added needs be questioned, there has been no questioning, therefore there has been no explanation.

Wisdom and purpose both play a role in how I conduct myself, I choose to to conduct myself in a way that is socially incompatible with people with narcissistic personality disorder, the arrogance (Trait #9) of those types drives them to assume and then treat such assumption as if fact and even go as far as to act on such to the detriment of others. They put forth negativity for the sake of negativity, and therefore there is no concrete reasoning behind their negativity aside for perhaps making others miserable. Ousting these types is just as important as disadvantaging them, especially when concerning the 7th trait (Lack of empathy) in which allows them to be especially problematic. While there may be a few cultural empowerment for these types, such disables my ability to identify with any such culture that offers such.

My culture is one of inquiry, if you do not know something, admit it and proceed to inquiry.

got it. anyone that disagrees with you has a mental disorder.

sigh.

note to anyone else: try not to respond to people who are only looking to debate in one fashion.

ignore and move on. my mistake and last time i respond to any threads/comments by op.

[Domince]

No one can disagree with me without a 3 paragraph response!

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Inquiry: Your link says it's a Cleric spell level 3. What level would you imagine it being?

I'm not particularly in favor of this spell being added. If it's an arcane spell, it obviates Rogue and Artificer splashes, which are pretty common in heroic levels. Divine casters already have inherent with self-healing, and while Find Traps has a niche as an alternative for True Seeing for secret door finding, I feel like it's off-theme. The one exception I could see would be as a perk in a cleric domain - say, Knowledge.

The other problem I see is it that as written, it would only be accessible to super-vets. The spell only grants the ability to disable devices, so only people with a bajillion tomes, Int, skills and gear would be able to use this. This would further discourage grouping for super-vets.

More details on how this would work?

Level 30 isn't cannon to P&P D&D, DDO has already abandoned cannon game play in the category of levels so a DDO adaptation really doesn't have to be available at level 3. We pretty much all have other players that we tend to reincarnate along side intentionally, we always need a trapper and a healer on hand , a less efficient trapper is still better than no trapper at all in a lot of cases and frankly there's enough multiclassing going on that it really takes nothing away, especially if a cleric hoping to excel at this has to gear up for it. Naturally a DDO adaptation of this would have to be significantly different than the P&P version. A team with a wizard who has knock and a cleric with this spell but no rogues or artificers is something you could realistically expect from time to time in grouping, but let's face it.... knock isn't all that effective, it needs work. The reason this wouldn't take anything from rogues or artificers is simple, with the multiclassing system, if someone wants to pick locks and disable devices, there isn't much at all stopping them. Further more, face it, a developer creating and balancing this kind of spell would be far better at speculating how said balance can be attained than I could.

[C-Dog]

(cross-post, reposting below)

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

No one can disagree with me without a 3 paragraph response!

A disagreement without an explanation is suspect for trolling, especially when said person's name is on my list of repeat offenders for toxic responses and hostility. Wasting your time to simply disagree without providing a reason seems innocent at first glance, but when you challenge someone to provide a reason and they can't and they instead lash out with complaints on the matter, that's quite revealing as it's far too often the case in that situation that the disagreement is neither sincere nor based on reason, but instead just a means of someone being spiteful that they feel will go unexposed. I've proven in an earlier rather hidden experiment that some people will indeed simply disagree with me to be spiteful and that post is both locked and still very much so available for viewing. In other words, I intend to filter out and expose toxic replies from people who refuse to avoid my threads and refuse to retain civility. Currently only Hobgoblin is on my ignore list, I prefer to keep it short but every time I give one of his comments the benefit of the doubt and look to see what he's saying on one of my posts, it's a total disappointment. He's prone to straw-man arguments , habitually assuming things then treating his assumptions as if fact at a cost to others, and being way too negative and uncivil. I don't know how many times I've reported him, but yeah I have my standards and they are reasonable, just abstain from exhibiting too many cluster B traits and you'll be fine. If someone truly wants value to be placed in their disagreement, they won't keep it super short short, however if they are just trolling, they won't elaborate either and frankly the elaboration on a disagreement is essential for effective discourse.

[pegrad]

Ah, more deep insights from our favorite wellfare queen

Disagreeing needs to be reasoned, proclaiming something to be added needs be questioned, there has been no questioning, therefore there has been no explanation.

a strange claim considering you just witnessed the very opposite.

Wisdom and purpose both play a role in how I conduct myself, I choose to to conduct myself in a way that is socially incompatible with people with narcissistic personality disorder, the arrogance (Trait #9) of those types drives them to assume and then treat such assumption as if fact and even go as far as to act on such to the detriment of others. They put forth negativity for the sake of negativity, and therefore there is no concrete reasoning behind their negativity aside for perhaps making others miserable. Ousting these types is just as important as disadvantaging them, especially when concerning the 7th trait (Lack of empathy) in which allows them to be especially problematic. While there may be a few cultural empowerment for these types, such disables my ability to identify with any such culture that offers such.

strange though that M. is universally liked around here while you are generally disliked and even shunned in game as far as I understand. Is this society? Or could it be you are really just a little prick?

My culture is one of inquiry, if you do not know something, admit it and proceed to inquiry.

your culture is one of annoying the hell out of everyone around you while being a moocher. And your observations never extend to yourself apparently, you only rationalize being said little prick usually.

[C-Dog]

Disagreeing needs to be reasoned, proclaiming something to be added needs be questioned, there has been no questioning, therefore there has been no explanation.

Yes, Socrates, it must be as you say, Socrates, it truly cannot be but so - we are The Chorus, and we agree.

So (not that I agree w/ your argument) but I'll bite, and formally question it, requesting the explanation - why do you think we need this?

[Coffey]

Uh yea, im sure SSG will move this to the top of list.

After all the bug fixes maybe.

[Vish]

Bring us the Understand Squirell spell!

[systemshaker1941]

http://dnd.arkalseif.info/spells/mag...643/index.html

You could even integrate this skill into gear, or simply give certain the ability to boost this spell's effectiveness!

Better yet, you could have DDO's version scale with character level............. or make it so that gear with disable device can have a use when said spell is cast!

Have you considered that with the insanely high trap DCs on elite/repear, that half a rank of disable device is worse than useless? You will explode the panel on any difficulty over Casual, and you'd have to have taken ranks in Search. So I'll echo the sentiments expressed elsewhere in this thread: no. This is a stupid idea.

Bring us the Understand Squirell spell!

Yes please!!!

[Memnir]

Bring us the Understand Squirell spell!