Let's Talk: Codex Runes

[karatemack]

If you want to craft a 5-piece LGS set, you will need to accumulate 20,000 codex runes to cleanse 4 of the items. Our discord raid group raids every Wednesday and Saturday and typically includes Shroud, and after a year or so most people still do not have enough codex runes to complete their set. Yes, we could accumulate said codex runes much faster by 1) purchasing raid timers 2) running shroud on alts... however that amount of grinding all at once would leave many in a place where they never want to run another Shroud again.

Currently the BEST drop rates are 150 (normal) 300 (hard) 400 (elite). At 20,000... that's 134 normal runs, 67 hard runs or 50 elite runs. At 2/week... that is 67 weeks normal, 34 weeks hard or 25 weeks elite. However, I highlight the word BEST because that's theoretically what's possible... not what typically happens. Most runs (in my experience, maybe bad luck?) wind up at the low end of the spectrum. Considering that I have many alts.... it would take me 2-3 years of running Elite shrouds 2x/week to grind out enough runes for 3-4 of my toons. And that's if no weapons are crafted and you never make a mistake! (sadly people do all the time and we all mourn with them)

Can this please be adjusted???

Here are some suggestions:

• 1. Make the amount of Codex Runes which drop a FIXED amount like in the other raids. If no other changes happen, then please adjust to 200 on normal, 400 on hard, 600 on elite. (Essentially.. 200/chest)
• 2. Increase the amount of Codex Runes which drop from the flagging quests and change them to a fixed amount. 10 on normal, 25 on hard, 50 on elite and +5 for each level of reaper.
• 3. If you don't fix/increase the Codex Rune drop rates, then please lower the cost of cleansing to 2,500.

Opening a poll on this, but would love to know the thoughts of others. If you have a comment, please share!

[slarden]

The 5-piece set isn't supposed to be easy.

If you run it twice per week on your main character and twice per week on your alt both on elite, you will have your 5 piece set before summer. Its much easier to run it on elite now than it was when the raid was new so you are effectively getting it faster than most of us did. Not to mention, when many of us crafted our items the set bonuses weren't fully known so we had to re-run to get the set bonuses we wanted.

The main issue now compared to then is lack of interest in raiding, but if you have a group it should be no problem.

[Grace_ana]

The 5-piece set isn't supposed to be easy.

If you run it twice per week on your main character and twice per week on your alt both on elite, you will have your 5 piece set before summer. Its much easier to run it on elite now than it was when the raid was new so you are effectively getting it faster than most of us did. Not to mention, when many of us crafted our items the set bonuses weren't fully known so we had to re-run to get the set bonuses we wanted.

The main issue now compared to then is lack of interest in raiding, but if you have a group it should be no problem.

We have a group that raid twice a week. We run it on hard because people in our group have a lot of alts and are ERing, so elite isn't often an option. At that rate, you're talking about a year for one set. Often we can only raid once a week because we have work or family demands. Then figure that we have other toons that want things as well.

The current number is really unreasonable for anyone but the power gamers that have enough time and only one or two toons. Which is who this game feels designed for more and more, and is about to drive the rest of us out for good.

[Selvera]

IMO all endgame grinds should be reduced significantly 2-3 years after they're implemented.

[Emerge2012]

I'm okay with the current difficulty/rune ratio. Players of today definitely have it much easier than those who earned their items in the past.

[Kenpai]

The current number is really unreasonable for anyone but the power gamers that have enough time and only one or two toons. Which is who this game feels designed for more and more, and is about to drive the rest of us out for good.

What's driving anyone out? The knowledge that some handful of systems are designed for anyone other than themselves? The absolute madness! How DARE they include grinders in their list of players they cater to! What is this game coming to?! I, frankly, am SHOCKED and A PAULED at this udder outrageous information!

[cdbd3rd]

I'm one of the "What's greensteel" votes.

Not that I don't know what it is, but to represent those of us who recognize we'll never be able to Casual our way to that kind of gear, regardless of drop rates or costs. ... and that's okay.

[Aelonwy]

I'm one of the "What's greensteel" votes.

Not that I don't know what it is, but to represent those of us who recognize we'll never be able to Casual our way to that kind of gear, regardless of drop rates or costs. ... and that's okay.

Me too. With identical thoughts and sentiments.

[Grace_ana]

What's driving anyone out? The knowledge that some handful of systems are designed for anyone other than themselves? The absolute madness! How DARE they include grinders in their list of players they cater to! What is this game coming to?! I, frankly, am SHOCKED and A PAULED at this udder outrageous information!

Try to control your outrage. The issue isn't that the game caters to power gamers; it's that it ONLY caters to power gamers and leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

So, essentially, you are outraged that I'm asking the game cater to people other than power gamers. Oh, the irony.

[Kenpai]

Try to control your outrage. The issue isn't that the game caters to power gamers; it's that it ONLY caters to power gamers and leaves the rest of us out in the cold.

So, essentially, you are outraged that I'm asking the game cater to people other than power gamers. Oh, the irony.

I feel perfectly catered to and I am by no means anywhere close to a powergamer.
Considering I have not even stepped foot in Killing Time, Strahd, Baba's Hut, Riding the Storm Out, Leg. Hound, Leg. Tempest Spine, Mark of Death, either of the Thunder Peak raids, Defiler of the Just, Fall of Truth, Lord of Blades or Master Artificer, nor other high level quests such as Brothers of the Forge, Black and Blue, Toxic Treatment, etc., and have only done my first Caught in the Web in the past 6 months I would say I am the complete opposite of a powergamer. A casual, if you will.

There are hundreds of quests (around 500 if ddowiki is accurate) and a large majority of them exist to cater to casuals. You aren't being left out in the cold, you are being welcomed with open arms, looking at the handful of quests designed for other people, and whining that those quests aren't also designed for you. Not to mention how many wilderness areas are designed for you, but how many are designed for powergamers?

[Grace_ana]

I feel perfectly catered to and I am by no means anywhere close to a powergamer.
Considering I have not even stepped foot in Killing Time, Strahd, Baba's Hut, Riding the Storm Out, Leg. Hound, Leg. Tempest Spine, Mark of Death, either of the Thunder Peak raids, Defiler of the Just, Fall of Truth, Lord of Blades or Master Artificer, nor other high level quests such as Brothers of the Forge, Black and Blue, Toxic Treatment, etc., and have only done my first Caught in the Web in the past 6 months I would say I am the complete opposite of a powergamer. A casual, if you will.

There are hundreds of quests (around 500 if ddowiki is accurate) and a large majority of them exist to cater to casuals. You aren't being left out in the cold, you are being welcomed with open arms, looking at the handful of quests designed for other people, and whining that those quests aren't also designed for you. Not to mention how many wilderness areas are designed for you, but how many are designed for powergamers?

The entire game has been more and more geared towards and calibrated to power gamers. If you haven't noticed, well, I can't help you except to direct you to the many, many conversations about it in this forum.

Either way, reducing the number of runes won't hurt anyone, so I have no idea what your complaint is about reducing the number to help out people that have limited playtime and/or many alts.

[Shadow_Jumper]

If you want to craft a 5-piece LGS set, you will need to accumulate 20,000 codex runes to cleanse 4 of the items. Our discord raid group raids every Wednesday and Saturday and typically includes Shroud, and after a year or so most people still do not have enough codex runes to complete their set. Yes, we could accumulate said codex runes much faster by 1) purchasing raid timers 2) running shroud on alts... however that amount of grinding all at once would leave many in a place where they never want to run another Shroud again.

Currently the BEST drop rates are 150 (normal) 300 (hard) 400 (elite). At 20,000... that's 134 normal runs, 67 hard runs or 50 elite runs. At 2/week... that is 67 weeks normal, 34 weeks hard or 25 weeks elite. However, I highlight the word BEST because that's theoretically what's possible... not what typically happens. Most runs (in my experience, maybe bad luck?) wind up at the low end of the spectrum. Considering that I have many alts.... it would take me 2-3 years of running Elite shrouds 2x/week to grind out enough runes for 3-4 of my toons. And that's if no weapons are crafted and you never make a mistake! (sadly people do all the time and we all mourn with them)

What group are you running with that you need 5 pc sets for them all?

If you are talking about multiple alts, then your first item you don't need a heart for. You could have 3 alts with 2 items apiece and only require 3 hearts. That would only be 5000 per toon. And since the only builds that theoretically need more than 2 are tanks....why do you need 20k runes? I mean, if you have 5+ alts sure, but even then you can probably cut corners to save time.

And that's if no weapons are crafted and you never make a mistake! (sadly people do all the time and we all mourn with them)

Weapons don't use Immortal Hearts.

[Enoach]

This is one of the advantages towards players of multiple alt characters. When you can run multiple characters through the collection every 3 days you can increase your speed of acquiring what you are after in a Bound To Account Crafting system, without needing to utilize bypass timers (I believe this is one of the aspects attributed to the "power gamer").

I see were a 5 piece set could be desirable by some people, but for me I don't see that it is all that much fun to have every character participate in every crafting system DDO has to offer. Maybe that is why I don't "feel" the grind as some do, or the "need" to gather the power so quickly.

[karatemack]

What group are you running with that you need 5 pc sets for them all?

If you are talking about multiple alts, then your first item you don't need a heart for. You could have 3 alts with 2 items apiece and only require 3 hearts. That would only be 5000 per toon. And since the only builds that theoretically need more than 2 are tanks....why do you need 20k runes? I mean, if you have 5+ alts sure, but even then you can probably cut corners to save time.

If you've never run with/as a caster with a 5-piece set, you probably won't get the value.

However, discussion of how many alts people have (over 10 for me, I know some with 20+) and whether or not you feel they should feel the need/desire to have 5-piece sets is more of a tangent. If you feel the current level of grind for LGS is appropriate, there is an option for that.

Compared to say Baba... which you can run on elite 10 times with a guarantee you'll get the item you're looking for... Shroud feels out of balance. It is 13-17 elite runs (because the drop rates are random) just to cleanse one item, and even then you don't really get the large payoff until you grind out all of the other items. Considering that many of the set bonuses from RL can be achieved with a mixture of raid/non-raid items... and you need to cleanse 4 to make the LGS magic happen... the disparity in the amount of grind becomes clearer (10 runs of Baba = full set bonus VS 52 to 68 runs of Shroud = full set bonus).

Weapons don't use Immortal Hearts.

True, but they require codex runes to craft. See the following page for more information on LGS crafting: https://ddocrafting.info/lgs

[Kenpai]

Either way, reducing the number of runes won't hurt anyone, so I have no idea what your complaint is about reducing the number to help out people that have limited playtime and/or many alts.

It marginalizes the achievements of the people who were actually willing to put an effort into obtaining the items to start, and it disincentivizes people from farming raids early as well as buying timer bypasses to do so when they know that Baba players can just complain on the forums until it gets easier to acquire them.
And shocking as it may be, it is possible to gear characters without equipping them with any greensteel items.

[Shadow_Jumper]

If you've never run with/as a caster with a 5-piece set, you probably won't get the value.

However, discussion of how many alts people have (over 10 for me, I know some with 20+) and whether or not you feel they should feel the need/desire to have 5-piece sets is more of a tangent. If you feel the current level of grind for LGS is appropriate, there is an option for that.

I have a caster, she only uses at most a 2 pc set. Every caster I run with uses at max 2 pieces. I still fail to see why you would need more than 2 LGS items on anything but a tank.

True, but they require codex runes to craft. See the following page for more information on LGS crafting: https://ddocrafting.info/lgs

I'm well aware of how LGS crafting works. 100 =/= 5000.

My recommendation; if you or guildies are having trouble with mistakes on crafting is to use the actual wiki. It gives you a better bird's eye view of the bonuses you're trying to craft, especially if you are going for augments/double weapon shards/weapon effects.

[karatemack]

I have a caster, she only uses at most a 2 pc set. Every caster I run with uses at max 2 pieces. I still fail to see why you would need more than 2 LGS items on anything but a tank.

Ender is nice. Mind Control too. How nice? You have to experience it to really know...

I'm well aware of how LGS crafting works. 100 =/= 5000.

My recommendation; if you or guildies are having trouble with mistakes on crafting is to use the actual wiki. It gives you a better bird's eye view of the bonuses you're trying to craft, especially if you are going for augments/double weapon shards/weapon effects.

The new system is less prone to mistakes. While I've never personally experienced this... I've known quite a few drunk raiders to who erm... messed up. The point is that it happens, whatever the reason, and once it does there is no going back to fix it.

[Grace_ana]

It marginalizes the achievements of the people who were actually willing to put an effort into obtaining the items to start, and it disincentivizes people from farming raids early as well as buying timer bypasses to do so when they know that Baba players can just complain on the forums until it gets easier to acquire them.
And shocking as it may be, it is possible to gear characters without equipping them with any greensteel items.

You really don't need to educate me on what is needed or not needed. I promise I have a much better view of my characters and what they need for where I want them than you do.

Also, the argument is that it's just not fair for people that ground it out is eternally one of the dumbest arguments ever made on the forums.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Ender is nice. Mind Control too. How nice? You have to experience it to really know...

Ender is pretty bad....

Not sure if you are talking about Controller's Grip or Mind Spike, but an off-hand Legendary Ice (If Charisma as my caster is a Sorc) or Legendary Salt (If Intel) is basically that effect for a single dual-weapon shard and only 100 runes.

[karatemack]

Ender is pretty bad....

Not sure if you are talking about Controller's Grip or Mind Spike, but an off-hand Legendary Ice (If Charisma as my caster is a Sorc) or Legendary Salt (If Intel) is basically that effect for a single dual-weapon shard and only 100 runes.

Like I said, those who have never had it/seen it in action won't get it. And that's ok.