Its time for a server merge

[Epicstorms]

asked / answered

No.

I really don't know how you don't see it.

More people means more LFMs will pop up and it will be easier to find a group that is in your level range / doing the quests that you want to do.

We can even look at the extremes if you'd like.
Let's say you have like 10% of the current population, so extremely low, there will be literally almost no LFMs and odds are that nobody is in your level range. So almost no grouping at all.
Now say you have 1000% of the current population, you will have a much healthier LFM panel, multiple groups per level and groups will fill, and new groups will pop up more quickly. Thus, more grouping.

How can I make this more clear?

[Amundir]

I agree with other's that the number of servers is not the main concern. Population size can affect number of LFMs. It's not *guarenteed* to solve the entire problem, but to state that there would not be more LFMs is highly unlikely. If two servers at a given time of day typically had 2 LFMs up, if you combined them it's not unreasonable to expect that at that given time you'd probably see 4.

But I am also of the mindset that the server merges are not necessary. People latch onto server merges as the driving force to concentrate the population. Rather than trying to force that to happen, offering reasonable options for people to transfer if they want would allow the population to concentrate naturally, and at their own choice.

Available population (willing to group) is the player's concern. Number of servers should never be a player's concern.

[Epicstorms]

I am personally fine with any solution that concentrates the players really.

The perfect solution in my eyes would be cross-server grouping, where there's just 1 LFM panel for all servers combined. But I guess the devs are not capable or willing to.
Anyhow, I like the solution to offer free transfers and pick 1 server as "main server". Perhaps also give people the option to transfer their guild somehow. It would suck to level up from the ground (and buy a brand new ship) if you decide to move as a guild.

[Pyed-Pyper]

No.

I really don't know how you don't see it.

More people means more LFMs will pop up and it will be easier to find a group that is in your level range / doing the quests that you want to do.

We can even look at the extremes if you'd like.
Let's say you have like 10% of the current population, so extremely low, there will be literally almost no LFMs and odds are that nobody is in your level range. So almost no grouping at all.
Now say you have 1000% of the current population, you will have a much healthier LFM panel, multiple groups per level and groups will fill, and new groups will pop up more quickly. Thus, more grouping.

How can I make this more clear?

You can make it clearer, to me at least, by offering reasoned counterpoints to what zehnvhex posted.

Ive long suggested low-cost and/or free and/or earned-by-favor transfers. I've often suggested cross-server grouping. I do sympathize with your plight, shared by so many others. That said, there are too many problems with mergers, and every time those points are raised, they get summarily dismissed as not issues.

[xxHazexx]

From a marketing perspective this seems like a good way to generate some real revenue. I on the other hand think a server merge is desperately needed and would provide many other great opportunities. This would increase the declining player base and would provide more opportunity for players which in turn would provide more sales.

[Dalris_Thane]

If someone already said this, I apologize that I missed it. (tired)

The one practical consideration for multiple servers is FTP players trying to get as many "first time you've reached X Favour" bonuses, which I BELIEVE is per server based.

So, the more servers, the more "You had a character on server Y reach 100 / 500 / 1,000 (or whatever the numbers are) so here have extra Z points over and above the 25 per 100.".

Now, is keeping the multiple servers on for that population outweigh the grouping problem of a scattered population? I suspect not. However, people don't always do what's better for everyone. If I was FTP, I'd want even MORE servers opened for MORE free DDO points... but that's just me.

But, since I'm sub... I have no horse in this race. The above was just a theory.

[Zealot0193]

How can someone say population is not the problem. for someone who has been here till 2011 and came back in 2019, player population is a HUGE PROBLEM

Cannith should not be empty on a weekday at 12 am. regardless. this is the main server. there's right now only 4 groups posted. People who say well its 12 am doesn't understand that all healthy mmos or online games regardless of what type will still have an active population at around 12 am. So yes, population is a REAL issue here.

Players need to stop holding the game hostage and urge the devs for a server merge. Just because you enjoy playing on a empty server doesn't mean its good for the game. New players should never have to log into empty world. Also you can still play solo even with the server merge, no one is forcing you to play with others.

Its basic math too, if theres 8 servers with 10 groups each, merge 4 of them and now each server will have 20 groups. I mean for a server like ghallanda, its rare to even see 10 groups at any given time of the day.

Also I think there is no issue with grouping system. Its incredibly simple to use and I never had an issue, if I see a group doing a dungeon in my level range I join it, simple as that.

[Zealot0193]

SWTOR had a server merge last year which improved the game greatly, the DEVS there felt that due to the age of the game they didn't need so many servers anymore as the player population just doesn't justify having so many servers.

DDO on the other hand had 8 servers since launch which use to be jam packed with players. Guys its over a decade since the game release. How do you still justify having 8 servers and throwing newbies who don't know better into a empty world?

it just boggles my mind.

Improving aspects of the game is a good idea, but without a server merge you will still have dwindling population per server, which really isn't the ideal way to keep players interested. Im subbed and I already spend 40$ in game only been back 2 weeks, however im quickly losing interest as the player population is so low compared to 2011 when I left that I cant keep on going like this, I might just play another game with more people.

[Zealot0193]

sometimes I wonder, how many subscribers are there even? 6000? 5000? 4000 per month? with such a small population is this game even making a million in revenues per year ?

[Epicstorms]

If someone already said this, I apologize that I missed it. (tired)

The one practical consideration for multiple servers is FTP players trying to get as many "first time you've reached X Favour" bonuses, which I BELIEVE is per server based.

So, the more servers, the more "You had a character on server Y reach 100 / 500 / 1,000 (or whatever the numbers are) so here have extra Z points over and above the 25 per 100.".

Now, is keeping the multiple servers on for that population outweigh the grouping problem of a scattered population? I suspect not. However, people don't always do what's better for everyone. If I was FTP, I'd want even MORE servers opened for MORE free DDO points... but that's just me.

But, since I'm sub... I have no horse in this race. The above was just a theory.

Sounds like a minor issue - I'm sure some creative people can come up with a solution that will give F2P players a way to get their free ddo points :P

[Politician]

You people spend way too much time talking about server merges instead of referring your friends to play DDO. How about working on a better referral system instead so that existing players are incentivized to bring more players into the game so that your pathetic server merger requests are no longer necessary.

[Hafeal]

*snip* *snip* *snip*

So are you saying the lfm panel is a problem OR are you complaining about server popluations? They do not necessarily equate, as has been pointed out.

"Counting" lfms is a deceiving endeavor. I play every server, Khyber being home. Lfms come and go quickly - short of literally staring at your screen for hours and tracking them, it is easy to miss lfms that fill quickly. There are some great suggestions to improve grouping in this thread and some huge barriers due to how DDO has evolved. Bottom line, putting more players on fewer servers would not be an automatic resoltuion to this issue for many reasons - already well outlined in previous posts.

As for server populations, all I can tell you is players have complained since 2006 about the server populations (resulting, btw, in a server merge circa 2008). The game is still up and I, personally, in recent times, have not had problems grouping or getting lfms to fill when I choose to use that system.

So, as of now, I am against a server merge.

[Whitering]

People are going to pop on all the time and say they see raid groups up all the time, but maybe they are on 1 of the 3 or so good servers, and maybe they are on an the server's prime time, and maybe it's related to whatever level they are. I am on Sarlona and there are often raid groups up when I am on, but I am pacific and the grouping dies really hard around 9 pm (midnight eastern time).

Nonetheless, I do not think a merge would hurt the game. It definitely helped in Lotro, it's not unprecedented. They also did a pretty good job on that and I had assumed it would be a colossal failure.

Do I require a merge? No, I am in a good guild, would one be beneficial? Only if they didn't just pile you onto one of the dinosaur servers we are on. That's the sticking point, if you are on a lower pop server, does T-home lag the f out as soon as you put 12 people in there?

[Zealot0193]

So are you saying the lfm panel is a problem OR are you complaining about server popluations? They do not necessarily equate, as has been pointed out.

"Counting" lfms is a deceiving endeavor. I play every server, Khyber being home. Lfms come and go quickly - short of literally staring at your screen for hours and tracking them, it is easy to miss lfms that fill quickly. There are some great suggestions to improve grouping in this thread and some huge barriers due to how DDO has evolved. Bottom line, putting more players on fewer servers would not be an automatic resoltuion to this issue for many reasons - already well outlined in previous posts.

As for server populations, all I can tell you is players have complained since 2006 about the server populations (resulting, btw, in a server merge circa 2008). The game is still up and I, personally, in recent times, have not had problems grouping or getting lfms to fill when I choose to use that system.

So, as of now, I am against a server merge.

Lfm and player population is directly related. How can you say its not? More players connected means more groups. Thats basic math. It helped with lord of the rings online, so why cant it help on ddo. Like i said just because you or others here like to play on empty servers doesnt mean newbies would enjoy jumping into an empty world.

A merged server would not affect you what so ever. You can solo all you want.

Putting more players in 1 server is a solution to solving the dwindling server population. How can you justify having 8 servers since launch to now when the player population is essentially gone compared to 2011 to now with just a few newbies joining.


Bottomline is this game needs a server merge. Weather you want to continue to hold this game hostage so you can have the server to yourself or not.

200 people playing using steam. Im guessing another 200ish playing on client? Thats low especially spread across 8 servers

[Captain_Wizbang]

Putting more players in 1 server is a solution to solving the dwindling server population.

That is YOUR opinion.

Comparing DDO to ANY other game for server mergers is not a fair assessment by any means. There too many factors at play with this game.

Ever notice why we dont here from SSG about this?

THINK about that for a while....

After that sinks in, find another server, or guild, and just like the PvP threads, let it go. Not going to happen. At least not for another year.

[Maldorin]

That is YOUR opinion.

Comparing DDO to ANY other game for server mergers is not a fair assessment by any means. There too many factors at play with this game.

Ever notice why we dont here from SSG about this?

THINK about that for a while....

After that sinks in, find another server, or guild, and just like the PvP threads, let it go. Not going to happen. At least not for another year.

I personally believe the time has passed when it could have really helped. In typical corrupt a wish DDO fashion they'll wait until there's a hundred players left scattered across the servers. They'll merge then and manage to anger these last players by messing up the merge and then the game will mercifully die. Yay!

They'll leave a maintenance mode server up so those VIP pass members can play out their remaining time

[askrj1]

We already know most of the servers have a relatively different demographic, even if players are primarily in the states. Depending on the timezone it could mean no real improvement to the online population during your main hours.

Grouping as it is has issues, level restrictions, flagging, access to content, dungeon scaling (especially bad in lower difficulties for players unfamiliar with content or no access to hard/elite on first life toons). Unless you're running within a guild or static group these remain unresolved, and as such does not really benefit pugs.

Mindlessly cramming more players onto the same server could just end up in more laggy marketplaces and harbours as we have seen how they performed back when we had higher numbers.

If you consider the game population to be dwindling merging servers will only be delaying the inevitable. The marut will come and claim the game as we eventually lose players even after a merge. The game needs to figure out how to bring in more new players and improving retention for existing players. We need better publicity, better referrals for existing players to bring in friends, better information on building characters or at least better pre-builts that can be used well later in the game. Then better CS and support in general, more polishing at the top to keep current players in.

And more importantly for new players: Epic Destinies. Say I bring in a friend, he pays for a month's subscription, we have a blast through heroic and I managed to help him up to 20. Now what? He hasn't bought MotU, he may or may not have the points for EDs but it's not a really cheap buy, and it's actually an extremely arbitrary bar for entrance to epics. If a new player wasn't somehow warned and aware of that bar ahead of hitting 20, that may very well where he will just leave the game, much more so than the grind ahead.

Fix all that, if we still don't see any improvement in population, then maybe we should just let the game die, with or without a merger.

[xxHazexx]

I personally believe the time has passed when it could have really helped. In typical corrupt a wish DDO fashion they'll wait until there's a hundred players left scattered across the servers. They'll merge then and manage to anger these last players by messing up the merge and then the game will mercifully die. Yay!

They'll leave a maintenance mode server up so those VIP pass members can play out their remaining time

Why is everyone saying "That ship sailed long ago"? Stop being the glass is half empty kinda guys and be a glass is half full kinda guy.

[Grimtooth333]

DDO on the other hand had 8 servers since launch which use to be jam packed with players.

DDO had more servers than 8 at launch, I remember quite a few more... They merged the servers they had down to 7, then Cannith came about later on, if I recall correctly.

An example from the previous server merge they did, they merged the Aundair and Rierdra and Khyber servers into the one Khyber server that exists today. I started on the Aundair server those many moons ago... Then there was good old Xoriat, they were plum crazy over there. I forget which current server they got merged into but it was a sad day for them with many a lamentation on the old forums.

There were numerous issues during and after the merge, and it wasn't easy on the staff at the time (which was larger then the staff now), and there have been massive additions to the game since then, more things to complicate such a move. My own experiences were that after the merge I received someone else's in game mails with items attached, I returned them to the other player, but that was before so many of the games items were bound on equip or account, that wouldn't be as easy for us to remedy today without staff interventions.

[Epicstorms]

Today I logged in on my capped sorc ...

I placed an LFM for R8+ Quests. We just started with some runs (me and a guildy (dps)), but nobody joined.
In about 30 minutes we got another sorc and struggled our way through a few more quests as we didn't have a good group composition at all.

I looked at the LFM and a grand total of 8 players at level 30 were online, of which 7 in group.
I send a tell to the other player who was not in a group, but seemed AFK.

After about an hour after I initially placed the LFM, I logged off as it was just annoying to shortman all these quests, thinking it could have been so much fun if we at least had a full group of semi-decent players.

Yeah, totally not a population issue at all... Merging for more players isn't going to do anything... Sure...

I'm done with DDO for at least a few days until the itch begins again and the game lets me down again and the cycle starts over.