Why the TR cache disappears? PETITION to hire an engine programmer.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Someone wrote a std::swap function like garbage? (If our engine is written in C++.) Is the cache written in no-SQL and that method is now out of style? I don't get it, but we need a code monkey to fix this.

<Tinfoil hat on> Your current developers are all working within higher level simplifications of the engine. You, and I mean SSG, do not employ anyone who understands the TR cache. The DEEP engine code is now a mystery to this company and you are (apparently) unwilling to hire anyone to figure it out. That's why the TR cache disappears. <Tinfoil hat off>

We're screwed on this one guys. This has been a problem for years---but this company isn't willing to employ someone to figure this out and fix it. We're talking about a core feature of the game. We're talking about how they sell boxes, xp pots, and VIP. The TR cache is broken because our management has been unwilling to fix it. After the TR cache disappears for people we should see an engineer comment on the problem. It's the engine programmers duty to deal with this kind of thing.

This is a petition to this company to hire an engine programmer competent enough to stop the TR crapche from causing people to leave and others to question the game's age. I love this game a lot and in order for to keep existing, this needs to happen.

Cheers and Love,

[Inanout]

Yes please

[Renvar]

As I posted in the other thread (about Sharn vs. TR Fix), I disagree that any time should be spent fixing the TR cache or hiring resources to fix the TR cache.

I think resources should be spent making a cosmetic wardrobe, Potions Case, Scroll Case, and Spell Components Pouch and to turn the Personal Bank UI into the same UI as shared bank (Sure I'd like upgrades to the shared bank UI like sorting by ML or item type, etc, but to get it done, let's just duplicate what exists) and add 200-300 more personal bank spaces sold in 20 space increments. Also, code all non-raid loot and non-raid crafted loot to BtA. To allow for more use of the shared bank and mules for storing gear from previous lives or for future lives.

Then just remove the TR cache from the game. Anyone who has it now is unaffected, but the next time you TR, you have to clear it and it does not come back. If you need more space, then purchase it using the new QoL storage options above.

The TR cache is a flawed implementation. I see no reason to invest a lot of money or development into it. Invest that effort into things that generate revenue, make the game better all around during daily game play and solve the problem by eliminating the need for the TR cache in the first place. Think how much faster TRing would be if you didn't have to play inventory tetris for 15-30 minutes every time you TR'd.

Fixing the TR cache is just perpetuating an old broken system. It's inside the box thinking. Let's step outside the box and envision a world free of the TR Cache.

[kelavas]

As I posted in the other thread (about Sharn vs. TR Fix), I disagree that any time should be spent fixing the TR cache or hiring resources to fix the TR cache.

I think resources should be spent making a cosmetic wardrobe, Potions Case, Scroll Case, and Spell Components Pouch and to turn the Personal Bank UI into the same UI as shared bank (Sure I'd like upgrades to the shared bank UI like sorting by ML or item type, etc, but to get it done, let's just duplicate what exists) and add 200-300 more personal bank spaces sold in 20 space increments. Also, code all non-raid loot and non-raid crafted loot to BtA. To allow for more use of the shared bank and mules for storing gear from previous lives or for future lives.

Then just remove the TR cache from the game. Anyone who has it now is unaffected, but the next time you TR, you have to clear it and it does not come back. If you need more space, then purchase it using the new QoL storage options above.

The TR cache is a flawed implementation. I see no reason to invest a lot of money or development into it. Invest that effort into things that generate revenue, make the game better all around during daily game play and solve the problem by eliminating the need for the TR cache in the first place. Think how much faster TRing would be if you didn't have to play inventory tetris for 15-30 minutes every time you TR'd.

Fixing the TR cache is just perpetuating an old broken system. It's inside the box thinking. Let's step outside the box and envision a world free of the TR Cache.

As much I would love to have scroll cases and potion cases. None of those make sense first of all. Second, you are seeing posts about people losing stuff that should've been placed in the TR cache. It shouldn't have much time spent on it but at least some to fix these errors from recurring. Not to mention I have lost multiple items in these cases and they were recovered. They weren't misplaced on a different character or left somewhere or accidently deleted. These were low level old crafting shards like 10% melee alacrity at minimum level 1. I have lost those shards however because I transferred servers without giving a chance to recover the item. This is by mistake but most of the items I have lost were rare - Quiver of Alacrity. That was lost but recovered in a matter of hours thanks to the game moderators.

This is the game fault - not our fault.

Think twice before posting, please.

[Renvar]

This is the game fault - not our fault.

Think twice before posting, please.

Show me where i said this was our fault? Maybe you need to read twice before posting, please.

I was entirely stating that THE GAME's TR cache is flawed. THE GAME. (to be clear). Not us. (to be clearer).

Since THE GAME is losing stuff when THE GAME transfers the items from inventory and personal bank to the TR Cache, why not solve the problem by having THE GAME not do that anymore? THE GAME could have more personal bank storage and THE GAME could have more ways to store items in inventory and THE GAME could make more items BTA so that THE GAME does not need to transfer anything to a TR Cache. This will be better for us, the players. Because we will get to use these new features of THE GAME and we will not have to spend a lot of time emptying the cache every time we want to TR and we will not have to worry when we TR that THE GAME will lose our stuff.

[Dread13131313]

As much I would love to have scroll cases and potion cases. None of those make sense first of all. Second, you are seeing posts about people losing stuff that should've been placed in the TR cache. It shouldn't have much time spent on it but at least some to fix these errors from recurring. Not to mention I have lost multiple items in these cases and they were recovered. They weren't misplaced on a different character or left somewhere or accidently deleted. These were low level old crafting shards like 10% melee alacrity at minimum level 1. I have lost those shards however because I transferred servers without giving a chance to recover the item. This is by mistake but most of the items I have lost were rare - Quiver of Alacrity. That was lost but recovered in a matter of hours thanks to the game moderators.

This is the game fault - not our fault.

Think twice before posting, please.

100% agree.

[Fedora1]

Then just remove the TR cache from the game. Anyone who has it now is unaffected, but the next time you TR, you have to clear it and it does not come back.

So what happens to stuff you have equipped or in your backpack when you TR? Gone? You will need to program in a way to handle that. I guarantee a "warning" that you must be nekkid when TR'ing is not going to be enough.

I do agree, however, that something other than the TR cache needs to be implemented. Extra inventory has been just about the number 1 request over the years, as well as a better way to search it. All we have gotten so far is more shared bank space (which is ok) but it's expensive, too little, and too clunky of an interface. It needs a huge overhaul.

[Tilomere]

Code everything BTA, double the size or shared bank base and upgrades, get rid of TR cache entirely.

[Paladin_of_Power]

Code everything BTA, double the size or shared bank base and upgrades, get rid of TR cache entirely.

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Problem solved.

[ThreadNecromancer]

Alternatively everyone could just not HOARD EVERYTHING they come across.

When a first life barbarian rolls on the healing trinket from Strahd, the wisdom trinket from Killing Time, and the raven trinket from Baba in the SAME NIGHT, doesn't anyone think that MAYBE we already have enough storage space, we're just misusing it? One could make the argument that "maybe he's grabbing it now for a future life" and I'd make the response of "he won't get much use out of endgame gear while reincarnating" combined with some form of "his final life won't require three different endgame trinkets". How long it takes to get one of them is irrelevant with the rune system in place. Save the runes, pass the gear if you're not going to use it in your 'final form'. Don't know yet what your 'final form' is going to be? That's what the runes are for!

I'd say the only reason we need the cache is because it's part of the TR system process. Remove it from the process and give everyone an extra character bank page or two. Also remove the sections where the reincarnation process interacts with the bank. House K favor rewards would also require changing, perhaps to a Haggle bonus, or... an increase on the number of simultaneous shard house auctions. Keep the extra bank pages from the DDO store so some people can still buy increases to their hoarding skill. Then have the players inventory (equipped items first) get dumped into the bank on reincarnation. Overflow gets deleted. Stop hoarding so much useless junk.

A scroll case would be nice but might complicate how scrolls are used in weapon slots. It would have to be changed to resemble how arrows worked when loading from quivers. A scroll slot underneath your weapon slot? Amazing. Now you don't need to drop your weapon to fire off a Heal or Rez scroll. Or call it a Magical Device Slot and allow wands to go there too.

I'd love to see a spell component bag of some kind, if only for organizational purposes. Hell, we still have soul bags and those are hardly used anymore. Or allow them to go into ingredient bags. Trap parts go in ingredient bags, why not spell parts?

[LightBear]

^^^^^THIS^^^^^

Problem solved.

Only those things that are now listed as Bound To Character!

Anyway, not going to happen as it will nullify the need to run raids on alts and severely increase closed grouping, as in no more lfms (this is what the data says).

[janave]

Code everything BTA, double the size or shared bank base and upgrades, get rid of TR cache entirely.

So much wisdom.

BtC is archaic, no point in supporting it.

A top level favor reward could also extend shared bank if one has access to it.

I understand that "create a problem - solve a problem" is the basis for money generation in games, but there is a schema level conflict now when crossing it with the TR money generator.

[Cantor]

I'm all for more storage, permanent favor unlocks and getting rid of the TR cache. The cache problem just goes away. Or as others have said, just make everything BTA, with raid runes even the raid argument for BTC is weak.

But I did want to share some speculation on the recent losses. I've noticed everyone seems to be saying, "DC'd during TR, then logged back in and began the process over and lost everything." Not trying to blame the user here, just saying this could be the cause: First TR fails, ok it has a log... second TR is successful, and potentially destroys the original log. If this were to happen to me, I would contact CS before trying to go through with a second attempt.

[Renvar]

So what happens to stuff you have equipped or in your backpack when you TR? Gone? You will need to program in a way to handle that. I guarantee a "warning" that you must be nekkid when TR'ing is not going to be enough.

This all works well enough on Epic Reincarnation. How many problems do you hear of people losing gear during an ER? Most have ML 30 stuff equipped when ERing. No need to be "nekkid".

The problems exist entirely in the transfer of all your inventory, worn items, and personal bank into the TR cache. If the game is not doing that, then the problem goes away.

[nokowi]

This all works well enough on Epic Reincarnation. How many problems do you hear of people losing gear during an ER? Most have ML 30 stuff equipped when ERing. No need to be "nekkid".

The problems exist entirely in the transfer of all your inventory, worn items, and personal bank into the TR cache. If the game is not doing that, then the problem goes away.

I don't think everyone wants to resolve grouping issues by getting rid of grouping. Your preference to drop the TR bank is your preference, however the logic behind it is flawed.


There are a host of options to make the experience better.

The obvious ones are
1. player guaranteed to know the state of their character
2. actual customer support when you have a major issue


There is no magic wand where the TR cache disappears without a host of new issues. We are not in a position to know what the optimal solution is. I would guess the TR process has a bunch of necessary code that is not used in the ER process, and that it is non trivial to convert all TR's into the ER process. I would guess there are legal issues to removing TR cache's with inventory in them.

All we can do is make recommendations, but it helps to recognize our limited understanding on the technical side.

[Scrapco]

It's code. If it was hard to write, it should be hard to read!
and

"Everyone knows that debugging is twice as hard as writing a program in the first place. So if you're as clever as you can be when you write it, how will you ever debug it?"

--Brian Kernighan

[Renvar]

I would guess there are legal issues to removing TR cache's with inventory in them.

I wasn't suggesting this at all. The TR cache can stay on any character that has inventory in it. For years and years, if they never want to TR again. But when that character TR's you are required to manually empty it prior to the TR. And it won't be created after the TR, like it used to. No need to wipe out the TR cache that currently exists on any character that isn't about to TR. Thus, no legal issues.

[cdbd3rd]

....

All we can do is make recommendations, but it helps to recognize our limited understanding on the technical side.

This part here.

(B/I/U emphasis mine)

[btolson]

This all works well enough on Epic Reincarnation. How many problems do you hear of people losing gear during an ER? Most have ML 30 stuff equipped when ERing. No need to be "nekkid".

The problems exist entirely in the transfer of all your inventory, worn items, and personal bank into the TR cache. If the game is not doing that, then the problem goes away.

I believe a dev has stated in the past that unlike an ER, during a TR your character is deleted and recreated from scratch, with PL feats/tomes applied and cache created. That's why everything gets 0'd out (favor, flagging, etc, and why consumed tomes used to be lost as well).

That said, deleting a character from the database to TR it is a pretty drastic implementation. And I do wish they'd come up with something else.