Why the TR cache disappears? PETITION to hire an engine programmer.

[nokowi]

Putting a bag of holding inside a portable hole will cause a rift to be opened to the Astral Plane, and both items will be lost forever.

And the problem was right in front of us this whole time!

Some great suggestions in this thread.

Thanks to all the contributors!

[Chacka_DDO]

I would also vote for a more comprehensive solution and get finally rid of the whole stupid Reincarnation Cache all at once!
A TR could work like an LR when it comes to your inventory, there is no need for a Reincarnation Cache!, those who still have a full Cache can keep it.
But every new TR should not demand to empty your current Reincarnation Cache.
This should be a quick solution also for the current bug where you lose items in a TR process.
But DDO needs in my opinion, in general, an overhaul of the whole bank and inventory system.
We need much more space and easier access to all items on our accounts!

[Dread13131313]

So, for HTR and RTR you need to talk to a HTR or RTR NPC and then they reset your Heroic Karma. Then you need to fill that Karma (3.8M xp) for them to grant you that past life feat?

For ETR, you would need to talk to some ETR NPC then they reset your Epic Karma. And then you need to make (8.25M xp) for them to grant you that epic past life feat that you selected?

This idea is pretty good, just a question about how do you calculate ITR? Is there going to be another Iconic Karma? Is that (8.25M xp + last 5 levels, so that's about 1.7M xp = 9.95M xp?!?)

In theory though, these karma XP values should be exclusive, i.e. you could only work on one at a time. Otherwise, people could take all 3 karma quests and gain all 3 past lives at the same time.... well, may be the devs should do this to make the new players or alt players play catch up.

The ether tells me that this is the route they are planning to go.

[locus]

As I posted in the other thread (about Sharn vs. TR Fix), I disagree that any time should be spent fixing the TR cache or hiring resources to fix the TR cache.

This isn't a TR cache issue. All bags, shared bank, inventory experience disappearances and duplications. It's clearly a database issue and kludging more stuff onto it won't fix it.

I think I read somewhere that Cordovan said on a Live Stream recently (maybe last week ) that they were more likely to remove the TR cache than to make modifications to how it operates.

Totally fine with that. But... would prefer... "get an extra bag/bank tab for X reincarnations up to a few points." Please :P Or let us store BtC **** on other characters.

[lillentle]

I think I read somewhere that Cordovan said on a Live Stream recently (maybe last week ) that they were more likely to remove the TR cache than to make modifications to how it operates.

Yeah he did say that on last weeks livestream, he also said they have 100 staff members, which isn't very many. Also in reference to where you said "how often do you hear about problems with ERs" https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Completionist

Honestly up until https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...se-help/page11 this thread I had never heard of any TR problems, but now I'm seeing links to lots of other different threads and there are plenty of first hand reports of losing items and poor customer service. It makes me think that it happens more often, and the devs are purposely being silent/vague. They know we will quote them. They also know responding to one of these threads = a boom of activity on them.

[jskinner937]

Yeah he did say that on last weeks livestream, he also said they have 100 staff members, which isn't very many. Also in reference to where you said "how often do you hear about problems with ERs" https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...-Completionist

Honestly up until https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...se-help/page11 this thread I had never heard of any TR problems, but now I'm seeing links to lots of other different threads and there are plenty of first hand reports of losing items and poor customer service. It makes me think that it happens more often, and the devs are purposely being silent/vague. They know we will quote them. They also know responding to one of these threads = a boom of activity on them.

First off, one of my characters was hit with TR cache bug during a recent IR.

That being said, it was laggy. I attempted to logout several times and it did not appear the Process worked right. I then shut down the client and re-logged and it appeared to be working again. Ran a few quests in Kothos and then I realized my bank was completely empty. I still had all my PLs just no inventory. At any rate, put in a ticket and it was still open as of last week and this happened in ndecemeber I believe.

I am convinced that the bug happens when you force a reset on the client or it crashes during the process. My main has never been hit with the bug and has almost every life completed and many of his racial TRs are recent (within last 4 mos). My point is TR when server lag is low for you, clear your dns and cache and do not force a reset if you have problems once you spend the heart and I believe all will be fine for you.

And yes I prefer to see the TR cache go away. It is intended to be temporary storage not permanent free storage. That is not WAI for when it was developed. I am certain having tons of TR caches sitting somewhere on a server takes up resources. And there are many that have full TR caches that do not even play the game anymore. Do not invest people into fixing it, but I support a solution to end it.

[acemonkey]

The ether tells me that this is the route they are planning to go.

"We had two bags of grass, seventy-five pellets of mescaline, five sheets of high powered blotter acid, a salt shaker half full of cocaine, and a whole galaxy of multi-colored uppers, downers, screamers, laughers... and also a quart of tequila, a quart of rum, a case of Budweiser, a pint of raw ether and two dozen amyls.

... Not that we needed all that for the trip, but once you get locked into a serious drug collection, the tendency is to push it as far as you can.

The only thing that really worried me was the ether. There is nothing in the world more helpless and irresponsible and depraved than a man in the depths of an ether binge."

Get help man, Ether is bad news. You're more likely to eat your goldfish than you are to figure out the future of DDO.

They know we will quote them. They also know responding to one of these threads = a boom of activity on them.

The devs are smart to avoid this, they try answering rationally, and they get 10 people barking at them. There's no point trying to reason with the mob.

[TitusOvid]

I would suggest to employ even more competent people. But that means more costs. A change in SSGs management strategy is more resourceful, imo.

[crackas]

First off, one of my characters was hit with TR cache bug during a recent IR.

That being said, it was laggy. I attempted to logout several times and it did not appear the Process worked right. I then shut down the client and re-logged and it appeared to be working again. Ran a few quests in Kothos and then I realized my bank was completely empty. I still had all my PLs just no inventory. At any rate, put in a ticket and it was still open as of last week and this happened in ndecemeber I believe.

I am convinced that the bug happens when you force a reset on the client or it crashes during the process. My main has never been hit with the bug and has almost every life completed and many of his racial TRs are recent (within last 4 mos). My point is TR when server lag is low for you, clear your dns and cache and do not force a reset if you have problems once you spend the heart and I believe all will be fine for you.

And yes I prefer to see the TR cache go away. It is intended to be temporary storage not permanent free storage. That is not WAI for when it was developed. I am certain having tons of TR caches sitting somewhere on a server takes up resources. And there are many that have full TR caches that do not even play the game anymore. Do not invest people into fixing it, but I support a solution to end it.

When? Have they responded to you? Can you give us all the details? I want to know what will happen if something like this happens to me. Also are you saying they should get rid of the cache and add some more storage elsewhere? I know I don't need most of my stuff in my TR cache but there's no real way to manage it, the names don't even match the effects.

The devs are smart to avoid this, they try answering rationally, and they get 10 people barking at them. There's no point trying to reason with the mob.

We aren't all a mob, people just get angry with insufficient responses. Normally I would agree that if they want to stop the noise they should just ignore it, but this is too noisy, it's happening to too many people. It's such a big thing that it scares people who have invested thousands of dollars, and thousands of hours into their character. The real worrying part for people isn't that they might lose their character, it's that they might lose it and have their help requests closed with no resolution, their other requests ignored. Then they bark.

[Question2005]

We know they can restore deleted characters from some kind of backup, so why cant they restore characters deleted by the TR system?

The only explanation I can think of is that either the TR system creates no backup when deleting...which would be really dumb....or the backup is overwritten by the newly created level 1 character....which would also be really dumb.

Or CS can restore characters deleted by the TR system, they just dont want to do it because of company policy.

[Iriale]

I agree with that devs should remove the TR cache from the game, and replace it with permanent storage. What's more, if this is even an excellent excuse to develop the player's house, something that can be monetized beyond the "free" storage that we would receive to replace the TR cache (note that it is not really free, it is what we already have and that it IS NEEDED because there is not enough storage to store everything we have with the personal bank)

TR cache was an inefficient solution for a method of lengthening the game that clearly did not correspond to the frequency of TRs we have today. The game has changed, the TR cache should also do it. Such a gross and inefficient thing clearly smells like a temporary solution, not a core mechanism of the game.

And in addition to avoiding the disappearance of items, I still do not know anyone in game that do not pest against the cache every time they have to empty it (the only defenders of this system that I have seen are in the forums. But, in the game? Not even a single one)

[kelavas]

As I posted in the other thread (about Sharn vs. TR Fix), I disagree that any time should be spent fixing the TR cache or hiring resources to fix the TR cache.

I think resources should be spent making a cosmetic wardrobe, Potions Case, Scroll Case, and Spell Components Pouch and to turn the Personal Bank UI into the same UI as shared bank (Sure I'd like upgrades to the shared bank UI like sorting by ML or item type, etc, but to get it done, let's just duplicate what exists) and add 200-300 more personal bank spaces sold in 20 space increments. Also, code all non-raid loot and non-raid crafted loot to BtA. To allow for more use of the shared bank and mules for storing gear from previous lives or for future lives.

Then just remove the TR cache from the game. Anyone who has it now is unaffected, but the next time you TR, you have to clear it and it does not come back. If you need more space, then purchase it using the new QoL storage options above.

The TR cache is a flawed implementation. I see no reason to invest a lot of money or development into it. Invest that effort into things that generate revenue, make the game better all around during daily game play and solve the problem by eliminating the need for the TR cache in the first place. Think how much faster TRing would be if you didn't have to play inventory tetris for 15-30 minutes every time you TR'd.

Fixing the TR cache is just perpetuating an old broken system. It's inside the box thinking. Let's step outside the box and envision a world free of the TR Cache.

@Renvar
I was referring to that it's not our fault its broken and it needs to be fixed. There is nothing else to it. I don't see why you don't believe it it needs to be fixed.

[Iriale]

@Renvar
I was referring to that it's not our fault its broken and it needs to be fixed. There is nothing else to it. I don't see why you don't believe it it needs to be fixed.

Renvar believes that the bug needs fix, but that does not compensate to use the time and resources necessary to do it when the best fix is to remove the TR cache from the game, not only because of this bug, but because it is an inefficient and obsolete game feature that should have been eliminated a long time ago.

This really is not SSG's fault. Turbine should have done it a long time ago. But SSG has inherited the situation, and frankly, it is time to face this problem.

[Robbenklopper]

Make new hook Point on airship in Cargo Hold: TR-Chest.
Once whatever heart is given to reincarnationguy and message came "..log out ..blablabla", you immediately receive amentiy Thing for hook-Point TR-Chest. Space:´say 255 items e.g.
Run to ship, summon chest, put stuff in TR-chest. log out, TR-button and pop goes the weasel!!

TR-Chest ,ofc,will be "remove only" after you TR´d. Same System, just in a different way.

[nokowi]

The devs are smart to avoid this, they try answering rationally, and they get 10 people barking at them. There's no point trying to reason with the mob.

If they would have said they are not going to comment on anything specific on TR issues, and then added some because (we are still working on the best solutions), that would have been a rational answer while not saying anything that can be quoted. This would include an update of what actions they want players to take right now (example: we will honor your screenshots).

Telling us they can't update us on a specific person didn't answer any of the questions players have.

The response was inappropriate to the questions we have asked.

They have given zero reassurance that we as an individual will be taken care of if we have an issue.

Players should be in an informed position when they choose to TR or wait until the issue is resolved.

SSG has not informed their players of anything other than "it's important, they are working on it", which doesn't help anyone make a decision.


I've outlined a rational response for you and SSG.

It's unfortunate that what they gave us is acceptable to you.

Please consider raising your standards, as it's in the interest of SSG.

Calling the player base irrational isn't going to make SSG successful, particularly when the response has been mostly rational, yes with some emotion thrown in.

[Chai]

The devs are smart to avoid this, they try answering rationally, and they get 10 people barking at them. There's no point trying to reason with the mob.

When "the mob" pays the bills, there is definitely a point to reasoning with them.

Its not hard to give us a specific procedure for getting stuff back, after having had 8 years to think over the possible solutions.

[Renvar]

@Renvar
I was referring to that it's not our fault its broken and it needs to be fixed. There is nothing else to it. I don't see why you don't believe it it needs to be fixed.

They absolutely need to fix the problem of stuff getting lost. They can fix this problem by fixing the current annoying system or they can solve this problem by replacing it with a better system that not only doesn't lose items but also doesn't suck.

I don't see the point in fixing the current system which, even when it was working, was painful and annoying for the players. The TR Cache, when functioning correctly, is still something that takes me 15-30 minutes to empty every time I want to TR. And it dumps everything into an unsearchable window in some random order (if it moved the stuff in the order I had it in my inventory and bank, then that would at least allow me to organize it in my inventory and bank before I TR so I can find stuff). As a result, I also lose time every time I want to pull something out of TR cache as I level. It can take me 5 minutes or more to scroll through looking for what I want. Many times, it is so difficult to use that I overlook things and swap to other characters thinking they have it in their cache. It is a huge time waster.

So fix the problem by replacing the system. If your car is 15 years old with 200k miles on it and breaks down all the time, you can sink more money into it to fix it (knowing it will probably break again in 6 months to a year), or you can use the money to buy a new car. I'm advocating for buying a new car over fixing your beater. Haven't we done the "fix the current TR system losing items" routine enough times in the past to know how this plays out over the long term?

What's so great about the current TR cache that people want to fix it and have to keep transferring items around every TR and having to scroll through 200-300 items to find something? Aren't you tired of this system and the massive time sink? Don't you want something better?

[MalkavianX]

I agree that something needs to be done. anything really. But what I need to know, being as I'm ready to TR, is how prevalent is this bug? Does it happen every time? 1 in 10? Is it server specific? What steps can be taken to minimize the chance of it happening?

Sorry for all the needy questions, but I've only recently come back to the game and I really want to play my TR character.

[Renvar]

I agree that something needs to be done. anything really. But what I need to know, being as I'm ready to TR, is how prevalent is this bug? Does it happen every time? 1 in 10? Is it server specific? What steps can be taken to minimize the chance of it happening?

Sorry for all the needy questions, but I've only recently come back to the game and I really want to play my TR character.

I TR'd twice this weekend to take advantage of the VIP bonus going on. Both were fine. No issues. That said, I have a very reliable connection, so I wasn't concerned. It seems that lag or server - client interruption at the wrong point of the process might be involved.

[Zretch]

The more I think about this, the more reimbursement is just a **** sandwich situation that can too easily be exploited and must be too thoroughly researched. It seems trivial to keep a copy of the character once they hit the "Reincarnate" button from character select, but currently you can exit out of character creation, log back into your character without having completed the reincarnation, and mess around with your gear. This is a good thing because it allows you to perform some final action prior to the reincarnation completing. (in my case, I forgot I needed to do an alignment change prior to using a lesser heart +1 because I was adding a class to my build that had an alignment restriction). If I had reincarnated, hit the button, exited out, handed away all of my stuff to a 2nd account or whatever (or even if I moved stuff in my bank/inventory to my shared inventory), and then completed the reincarnation while claiming loss, the person doing the restore can't just easily "roll me back", as they have to track down my trades to see if I've been offloading gear.

Same thing if you snap the backup after you hit the "create" button upon completion of creating your level 1 character, but before you get shipped to Jeets, you remove that possibility, but you open up someone who reincarnates, runs back from Korthos to the bank, and then starts transferring stuff before claiming loss.

You can simply say "an restoration is denied after the first time you've moved something out of your TR cache, or out of your inventory/bank after reincarnating", but that would really screw over people who didn't realize they were missing things immediately.

I really think SSG needs to bite the bullet on reimbursement in the short term and restore the items present at the time of reincarnation, but start working on a better way to TR that doesn't involve character deletion / reset. Make all of the things that current happen as a result of that deletion (resetting quest status, favor, flagging status, 1st time completion status, 20th completion progress, loss of House K and Coin Lord storage, etc) optional in the reincarnate dialog box. This would allow people to either keep their flagging / quest status / favor and lose their bravery / first time bonuses, or let everything reset. Have the "TR cache" be some kind of persistent storage (part of their bank storage, but not shared) and and auto-move everything in inventory to that storage when they confirm their name in the reincarnation grove. That way people can verify it before proceeding with logging out, and it prevents that storage from being used as more bank because the only way to put something into it is going through the TR process.

Then heroic, iconic, racial TRs become a lot more like lesser TRs / epic TRs, but with the option to wipe quest and favor stats or not. No wiping of tomes and feats just to mess up putting them back, no wiping of player inventory just to mess up putting it back.

I'd absolutely hate to believe that SSG can implement something like Ravenloft but they can't fix TRs in a way that guarantees no loss of progress. The "wait for it to screw up and then recover after" method is either very resource intensive, or it's very customer unfriendly.