New Feat: Knight' s Training

[Zites]

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

…………

Knight’s Training:

Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

• Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
• Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical
• Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1

…………1. What about OTHER weapons? Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons.-Torc

• Great Sword/Great Axe/Bastard Sword

1. Allow glances blows to scale with critical hits?

2. Allow glances blows to double-strike?

3. Allow glances blows on helpless damage?

4. Increase vorpal percentage and effectiveness?

[Hjarki]

This would effectively let you spend a feat to make a variety of weapons into (at best) a Khopesh (which costs a feat anyway).

That being said:

- Whirling Steel Strike. For a pure Monk build, I can’t see it being competitive with handwraps. But consider 14/5/1 Cleric/Ranger/Monk. You get 100% off-hand attack chance (Deft Strikes + Tempest 2nd Core), all the T5 Tempest benefits, and Holy Sword. I don’t see this as a tier one dps build, but it would be pretty good for a build that can also cast level 7 Divine spells.

- Battle Engineer. This change would probably make the War Hammer to go-to option for Artificer builds.

- Racial abilities. My SWF TYWA Battle Axe Dwarven Occult Slayer seems a bit more practical with this feat available. Wood Elves would probably take Long Sword over Khopesh for the +5% Doublestrike. Purple Dragon Knights would be able to dual wield Long Swords with Cormyrean Knight Training, making a pure Sorcerer Eldritch Knight a stronger possibility.

- Favored Weapons. Warhammers, Longswords and Heavy Maces are all favored weapon options, giving you better options for your War Soul, War Priest or Paladin build.

In terms of Swashbuckler, I don’t think this is really a problem. The top dps builds are either already using Khopeshes or can't replace what they are using with the weapons listed. Swashbucklers would still retain an critical advantage with hand axes and light maces over other builds.

One last note: Pulverizer/Headman’s Chop.

If you’re going with this change, I think these abilities have to be nerfed. As it stands right now, Legendary Dreadnought is the Destiny almost exclusively used by virtually every melee dps build. If you simply eliminated these abilities from the tree, it would still be by far the best melee dps Destiny. However, leaving them in place while adding Knight’s Training would effectively shift everyone in Epic levels over Bludgeoning and Axe weapons (barring itemization issues, which is a terrible way to balance builds).

[Kutalp]

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

…………

Knight’s Training:

Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

• Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
• Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical
• Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1

Requires: +4 BAB
Martial Feat (Fighter bonus feats can be used to take this)

……………

A quick faq on this new feat:

1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS

2. What about OTHER weapons? Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons. Certain weapons just might not have the itemization pool to really be viable yet, so some weapons will come slower than others.

3. Morale Bonus? Will that stack? Morale bonus has never been used with crit threat or mod before, so it will stack with everything currently in the game. This is more a consideration for effects down the road.

4. Hey Maces/Hammers/etc aren’t equal (unless I go Aasimar Maces) Because bludgeon DR is probably the most common DR due to skeletons we’ve kept maces a little lower for now.

-Torc

Wonderful news.

I allways dreamed about using different types of weapons such as Clubs,Great clubs,Maces,Morning stars and Picks more efficiently; without leaving them flavor only builds.

I hope bludgeoning and piercing weapons also get other bonuses, for Stick and board builds by choosing some other Shield style enhancements and feats aswell.

Thank you very much and please keep up with the efforts. The players and long time fans of DDO appreciate your work.

[Ballrus]

On the warhammers: make it hand and half (glancing blows bludgeon weapon) with the feat.

[Hjarki]

Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons.

Primitive Weapons Training: Great Clubs receive +1 critical multiplier and Clubs are considered Light Weapons.

[Silverleafeon]

Looks like a "free ice cream" type of addition.
No downsides and interesting addition to the game.

Definitely joining the thumbs up crowd since longswords have been the bread and butter of advanced D&D in the age where dungeon masters were instructed to be aware that a single file passageway might be to narrow for one to properly use a greatsword.

Good to see support for the lesser used weapons.


Also, joining the crowd hoping for a Peasant's Training version via Club, Great Club, & Sickle?

[Arkat]

Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons.

Kamas are just AWFUL. Even if they were just Martial Weapons, they'd still stink but the fact they're also Exotic Weapons just adds insult to injury.

Consider a "Monk Weapons" or similarly named feat that would increase the kama's base Crit range to 19-20 AND add +1 to the Crit multiplier. Alternatively, you could make the Crit Range 18-20 OR add +2 to the Crit multiplier. Maybe this feat could also increase the Crit range of Q-Staves to 19-20 as well?

The new kamas from Lost at Sea were supposed to be desirable, especially for Ninja Spies. Unfortunately they weren't because the Kama's innate suckiness couldn't be overcome by the enhancements in Ninja Spy tree.

[Doomflayer]

Kamas are just AWFUL. Even if they were just Martial Weapons, they'd still stink but the fact they're also Exotic Weapons just adds insult to injury.

Consider a "Monk Weapons" or similarly named feat that would increase the kama's base Crit range to 19-20 AND add +1 to the Crit multiplier. Alternatively, you could make the Crit Range 18-20 OR add +2 to the Crit multiplier. Maybe this feat could also increase the Crit range of Q-Staves to 19-20 as well?

The new kamas from Lost at Sea were supposed to be desirable, especially for Ninja Spies. Unfortunately they weren't because the Kama's innate suckiness couldn't be overcome by the enhancements in Ninja Spy tree.

How about instead we reverse the monk Nerf a little and give monks back some of the DPS they lost with hand wraps?

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

...Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical

Based on the ensuing thread, I interpret this to mean:

...Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. This bonus is doubled by the Improved Critical (Slashing) feat.

Is that correct? This wording might be less confusing. It's currently ambiguous whether Battle Axe with Knight's Training and Improved Critical is 17-20/x3 or 15-20/x3.

The wording should also be the same for bludgeoning weapons, if that is the intent. It was the special treatment given to Battle Axe that led me to believe 15-20/x3 was intended.

Cheers.

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

- Battle Engineer. This change would probably make the War Hammer to go-to option for Artificer builds.

Would it? War Hammer now has a higher crit profile, but Bastard Sword and Dwarven Axe have glancing blows. Its a trade-off which you prefer.

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

While I think it's good you're trying to make other weapon types useful I disagree with the method. Instead of trying to make them all the same by having similar crit profiles, what buffing them in other ways so they are powerful but very different. Homogeneity may be balanced... but it's not very exciting.

+1.

Overall, I like the new feat, for its stated purpose of making traditional weapons viable. However, I have to agree with this point.

For a simple alternative, you could reverse the bonus, giving longswords +1 crit range, and battle axes and bludgeoning weapons (and heavy picks, if included), +1 crit multiplier. This would accentuate existing differences rather than erase them.

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

With more thought I am still worried about it being to good, but I do really like it. I am going to offer the suggestion of adding heavy picks ...

Tentative +1. Heavy picks already have a higher crit profile, but rarely (if ever) penetrate DR. This should probably be play-tested for balance.

... and limiting the feat to the main hand weapon only.

Tentative +1, based on gut only, not formal analysis. However, this would not live up to the promise of achieving equity with khopesh. I would propose nerfing TWF khopesh, but I expect that would get me banned.

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

Primitive Weapons Training: Great Clubs receive +1 critical multiplier and Clubs are considered Light Weapons.

I'm not sure on the specifics, but I do agree there should be some incentive to use primitive weapons, or else why have them? Perhaps a buff on a barbarian and/or druid enhancement tree would make more sense (and avoid the homogeneity issue).

[lyrecono]

• Great Sword/Great Axe/Bastard Sword

1. Allow glances blows to scale with critical hits?

2. Allow glances blows to double-strike?

3. Allow glances blows on helpless damage?

4. Increase vorpal percentage and effectiveness?

I love the idea but the 2hf thread got lost in obscurity some time ago, the devs don't care for 2hf or the inherent mistakes to the systems they made.

2hf is dead to them

[Uifareth_Cuthalion]

... It's currently ambiguous whether Battle Axe with Knight's Training and Improved Critical is 17-20/x3 or 15-20/x3.

Results of empirical testing: With Knight's Training and Improved Critical (both Slashing and Bludgeoning), Long Sword and Battle Axe have crit range 17-20, while War Hammer has crit range 18-20. I presume all are x3, although unconfirmed.

[lyrecono]

• Great Sword/Great Axe/Bastard Sword

1. Allow glances blows to scale with critical hits?

2. Allow glances blows to double-strike?

3. Allow glances blows on helpless damage?

4. Increase vorpal percentage and effectiveness?

2hf in general needs a fix, the day i pay a feat to fix 3 other feats i already payed for is the day i stop playing.
Paying a feat to regain what the devs broke and still works for swf and 2wf?
The devs should be ashamed of themselves for letting pet projects out of hand and neglecting other playstyles.