New Feat: Knight' s Training

[count_spicoli]

I like it makes sense. Kopesh requires feat and this lvls playing field.

As far as helping ftrs I dont think so. They have butchered them down to garbage except for 6 or 8 splash. Power surge, edf, no dmg boost plus haste boost. They simply don't favor ftrs.

[btolson]

I like it, about the same power level and cost as exotic weapon proficiency feats.

With the main deviation being: with a single feat you have multiple competitive weapon types available to you, increasing your itemization options considerably.

[Rykka]

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

…………

Knight’s Training:

Snip

I hate khopesh thematicly, so I like this. I've often wished there was a way to make Long Sword (and also Bastard Sword and Great Sword) better weapons in DDO than they are.

However, as described above, this would become a feat-tax for all one handed melee characters. Make the different weapon types a multi selector LSw or Mace or BAxe or WHammer, and allow the feat to be taken more than once. Otherwise I don't think anyone will ever take Khopesh or Bastard sword again.

[Rykka]

I'd further add that with some of the named weapons available, like Soulrazor, just having this feat working with just longswords makes almost a "must have." IMO

[FuzzyDuck81]

I hate khopesh thematicly, so I like this. I've often wished there was a way to make Long Sword (and also Bastard Sword and Great Sword) better weapons in DDO than they are.

However, as described above, this would become a feat-tax for all one handed melee characters. Make the different weapon types a multi selector LSw or Mace or BAxe or WHammer, and allow the feat to be taken more than once. Otherwise I don't think anyone will ever take Khopesh or Bastard sword again.

Well bastard sword still has the glancing blows so that'd remain popular for some but yeah, khopesh desirability is going to drop

*looks again at that heavy mace crit threat boost*.... hey, could we get a legendary phosphor? just asking for... uh, a friend

[dgtgtd]

Well bastard sword still has the glancing blows so that'd remain popular for some but yeah, khopesh desirability is going to drop

*looks again at that heavy mace crit threat boost*.... hey, could we get a legendary phosphor? just asking for... uh, a friend

Still sad that they didn't include the turn-in loot when they added Epic versions in the Orchard, so many good things that would have been so nice to have. I guess if they somehow do another pack involving the Orchard they might be able to work those in, but as it is I don't have my hopes up.

[DevHead]

Looking forward to it, it's given me a number of build ideas.

[Arkantios]

I smell dual Soulrazors + LOTS of Healing Amp builds!

Nah, Soulrazer + Flow :P

[alceste007]

Looking forward to it, it's given me a number of build ideas.

I am also a big fan of this feat due to opening up a lot more build types. More viable builds equal more ways to play your character. I am also a long sword fan and was pretty sad at how bad they are in DDO until this.

[Rykka]

Which also excludes the fact that heroic and low epics are loaded with MUCH better weapons than what Khopes and BSwords provide now. Boosted with this feat they're gonna be as OP as Monk was before it was decided to nerf wraps into the dirt. Maybe they'll bring back the extra W on wraps to compensate the power creep.

However, I think they can leave wraps alone if they want. This feat is probably going to boost Ninja longsword Monk as much as any other class.

[LadySorrows]

A quick faq on this new feat:

1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS


This is a terrible idea IMO -- Khopeshes are amazing weapons yet you never show them any love. Named Khopeshes are very few and far between, random generated swords are horrible - which is why we players so loving refer to them as vendor trash. So what makes a Khopesh stand out from other weapons is their crit bonus, and as a khopesh user I know this so I havent complained about the lack of new Khopeshes because with my old school ones - I can still keep up - only because of the crit bonus.

Now you are basically making these other weapons which are all diety weapons so they get extra perks from that and not to mention you constantly are making new named versions of these weapons in all your new content, with this new feat they will be equal to the Khopesh.

So basically - all the other weapons get new verisons constantly in the new content and now they are going to be equal to the only thing that makes a Khopesh worth having as weapon. SMH!!!!!

I feel like again I am being punished and herded towards builds I don't want - sigh!!!!!

[Vish]

Thanks for the longsword love
May test a whirling steel monk build
Had it on the deck,
Then this just sweetens it
Divines of sov host got some love too
Just too bad it's a feat,
One more to add
Threat range not as big a deal,
But maybe even more so
Since that's really where the damage comes from

Anyways,
Can we have a feat pass?

[Dreppo]

Love it. Long swords, battle axes, and war hammers are all iconic weapons of war, and this will make them actually used. (Spears are another... wish DDO would do a proper implementation of spears, but I digress.) There's an opportunity cost of taking a feat which makes this balanced. Well done.

[askrj1]

A quick faq on this new feat:

1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS


This is a terrible idea IMO -- Khopeshes are amazing weapons yet you never show them any love. Named Khopeshes are very few and far between, random generated swords are horrible - which is why we players so loving refer to them as vendor trash. So what makes a Khopesh stand out from other weapons is their crit bonus, and as a khopesh user I know this so I havent complained about the lack of new Khopeshes because with my old school ones - I can still keep up - only because of the crit bonus.

Now you are basically making these other weapons which are all diety weapons so they get extra perks from that and not to mention you constantly are making new named versions of these weapons in all your new content, with this new feat they will be equal to the Khopesh.

So basically - all the other weapons get new verisons constantly in the new content and now they are going to be equal to the only thing that makes a Khopesh worth having as weapon. SMH!!!!!

I feel like again I am being punished and herded towards builds I don't want - sigh!!!!!

Khopeshes were the strongest weapon for a long, long time until the enhancement passes handed out weapon type specific crit bonuses. Even Rogues, Paladins, Barbs all used khopeshes (unless you were eSoSing back then). Even now, when using builds that take generic crit bonues khopeshes are still essentially king. Ravenloft has a strong raid khopesh. There are fewer named choices along the way sure, but that is true for many other weapon types because of the way quest levels and loot levels are structured. You're not getting any less khopeshes than assassins/VKFs are getting daggers.

If only considering performance, there some reasonably usable builds, but there are no top-end builds using weapons on that list. That's INCLUDING deity bonuses and even maces on a scourge. Have you even seen what classes get what bonuses for favoured weapons? The only real bonus is in mauls that's not here. Addition of the feat puts them on par with an average melee class khopesh at best; none of the weapons on that list got any real love in new gear recently either.

For years we've been herded to use Khopeshes. This is actually a decent move in the other direction. For the cost of a feat (same as obtaining khopesh prof) you get a weapon that can par with khopesh, which I think is fair. They will not be realistically any stronger than khopesh, so keep playing your khopesh if you would so like.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

I love this feat Torc, thank you.

[HastyPudding]

1. I like it. I'm sick and tired of khopesh being the be-all-end-all of one-handed weapons outside of certain specialized builds (like scimitar rangers or dwarven axe dwarves). This has my vote.

2. Somebody else said it in the thread already, but I think it bears repeating: I think warhammers should get glancing blows when wielding a shield, like bastard swords and dwarven axes. Just like bastard swords and dwarven axes are the 'big daddies' of the sword and axe families, warhammers are the big daddies of the mace category. I think it's about time warhammers got some love, and this feat is the perfect opportunity to give it to them (plus it would give dwarf tanks more options).

[LadySorrows]

Khopeshes were the strongest weapon for a long, long time until the enhancement passes handed out weapon type specific crit bonuses. Even Rogues, Paladins, Barbs all used khopeshes (unless you were eSoSing back then). Even now, when using builds that take generic crit bonues khopeshes are still essentially king. Ravenloft has a strong raid khopesh. There are fewer named choices along the way sure, but that is true for many other weapon types because of the way quest levels and loot levels are structured. You're not getting any less khopeshes than assassins/VKFs are getting daggers.

If only considering performance, there some reasonably usable builds, but there are no top-end builds using weapons on that list. That's INCLUDING deity bonuses and even maces on a scourge. Have you even seen what classes get what bonuses for favoured weapons? The only real bonus is in mauls that's not here. Addition of the feat puts them on par with an average melee class khopesh at best; none of the weapons on that list got any real love in new gear recently either.

For years we've been herded to use Khopeshes. This is actually a decent move in the other direction. For the cost of a feat (same as obtaining khopesh prof) you get a weapon that can par with khopesh, which I think is fair. They will not be realistically any stronger than khopesh, so keep playing your khopesh if you would so like.

Actually when this goes into effect, it will kill khopeshes - simply because they are not enough named kopeshes to hold til you hit RL content and those kopeshes are not that great - But let's look at it like this you go and look up named weapons and really see where the kopesh stands in relation to the longsword or even the dagger that you mentioned. Way more of them than Kopeshes and not just more of them but newer and better updated for playing newer content and reaper content. In the Halloween event they just gave daggers that are pretty op every few levels for dagger users, not even close to on named khopeshes being equal to them. So when this goes into affect for the price of 1 feat the khopesh becomes obsolete - because at almost every level you find a better newer named weapon other than a kopesh that is equal to or as will be in the battle axe's case better than the Kopesh.

I don't argue that some weapons, and I will go with longsword, needs updating and help - but not at the cost of making other weapons obsolete. They haven't made any of the weapons better btw just made them all the same except the khopesh - because they can't compete with all the other's named updated versions at all levles of gameplay.

[Kilgrave]

Hey guys, just wanted to give you a quick heads up on a new martial feat that we’re introducing in the upcoming anniversary patch. It’s called…

…………

Knight’s Training:

Description: You have undergone rigorous military training with the traditional weapons of war. These weapons receive one of the following morale bonuses in your hands.

• Longsword critical multiplier is increased by 1
• Battle Axes critical threat range is increased by 1. Increased by 2 if you have slashing improved critical
• Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers critical threat range is increased by 1

Requires: +4 BAB
Martial Feat (Fighter bonus feats can be used to take this)

……………

A quick faq on this new feat:

1. Why make this feat? We want players to have more options for their melee DPS builds, so we are equalizing some weapons to be at least closer, if not equal to, the power of the Khopesh. Due to the way crit bonuses become rather great by epic levels, the Khopesh’s superior crit numbers can make it mathematically the only one-handed choice for many builds, and we prefer a more diverse weapon choice for players seeking top DPS

2. What about OTHER weapons? Depending on how this feat goes we will likely introduce other feats or enhancements that handle other sets of weapons. Certain weapons just might not have the itemization pool to really be viable yet, so some weapons will come slower than others.

3. Morale Bonus? Will that stack? Morale bonus has never been used with crit threat or mod before, so it will stack with everything currently in the game. This is more a consideration for effects down the road.

4. Hey Maces/Hammers/etc aren’t equal (unless I go Aasimar Maces) Because bludgeon DR is probably the most common DR due to skeletons we’ve kept maces a little lower for now.

-Torc

Looks good for Longsword,Battle Axes,Heavy Maces, Morning Stars & War Hammers.
Any plans to work on bastard swords or glancing blows this new feat feels like one more reason not to play my Pally?

[blerkington]

I can't help thinking this is primarily about making some of those WPM weapons more desirable. I would not be surprised at all if very few people were using them and had bothered with the upgrades because of the design problems with the items and upgrade process.

As other people here have already pointed out, there are other weapon types not being addressed by this change also suffer from this problem. This fix does nothing to address that, so once again I'm left wondering at the gap between the stated reason for a proposed change and the results of what that change will be.

If you think some weapon types being uncompetitive at endgame is a problem, why not do a broader review? This just seems like another quick and dirty band-aid fix that doesn't really address the larger problem.

Thanks.

[askrj1]

Actually when this goes into effect, it will kill khopeshes - simply because they are not enough named kopeshes to hold til you hit RL content and those kopeshes are not that great - But let's look at it like this you go and look up named weapons and really see where the kopesh stands in relation to the longsword or even the dagger that you mentioned. Way more of them than Kopeshes and not just more of them but newer and better updated for playing newer content and reaper content. So when this goes into affect for the price of 1 feat the khopesh becomes obsolete - because at almost every level you find a better newer named weapon other than a kopesh that is equal to or as will be in the battle axe's case better than the Kopesh.

I don't argue that some weapons, and I will go with longsword, needs updating and help - but not at the cost of making other weapons obsolete. They haven't made any of the weapons better btw just made them all the same except the khopesh - because they can't compete with all the other's named updated versions at all levles of gameplay.

The truth is, not just for khopesh, but essentially most weapons that didn't get dibs in CitW or ToEE is left dry for low epics. Even then, you still have the new plat Khopesh and Drow from MotU, and like most other weapons without great choices Cormyrean or craft TF/LGS. Most of the "better newer" named weapons do not exist from 20-26, and require specific builds to operate. Many of the "exceptionally" strong weapons aren't even recent additions.

For the purpose of this feat though let's only consider longswords, battleaxes, and the blungeon pieces. Nothing comes to mind for Longswords in low-mid epics. Fellblade MIGHT perform better than RL for the critrange, there is no raid piece in RL+.

Battleaxes has exactly ONE old epic piece and the 3 versions of Adaxus until you hit RL with Adaxus on x4, but has no supporting mods. The dice and enchantment are also antiquated so will unlikely outperform a Morninglord. The raid battleaxe isn't even a melee piece, it's a light casting stick.

Where do I even start with Maces and Morningstars, the options are not all that many (though RL+ pieces are available) and even with the feat the profile is still subpar. Warhammers are in a slightly better position with a x3 base but if I'm not mistaken from the post bludgeons don't get the extra +1 range with impcrit so they're still short of Khopeshes.

It's reasonable till now for Khopeshes to have fewer options, as you said even your lower level khopeshes are up to par with stronger pieces of other weapons. They didn't need more or better pieces. There was no incentive to give khopesh more options over other weapons that were already underperforming in comparison. Addition of this feat to level the playing field actually gives more room for devs to add khopeshes with less fear of khopesh being the single end-all weapon.