Scion of the Ethereal Plane vs Earth

[Miahoo]

I run some numbers...

Lets' say, 150 hide, that'd be 50 SA scaled with MP.
Now with Scion of the Plane of Earth, you get 2d20 acid dmg scaled with SP.

So the numbers are pretty close, SP is easier to increase and not many stuff are immune to acid, while you don't always get SA.
But, you get an additional 20 PRR, which always awesome to have.

It seems you should always go for Earth (or the other elementals if you want MRR).

The other benefits from Ethereal (skills, blur, invis) are ok, nothing more.

Did I miss anything?
Is there any reason to pick ethereal over the elemental scions?

[askrj1]

I run some numbers...

Lets' say, 150 hide, that'd be 50 SA scaled with MP.
Now with Scion of the Plane of Earth, you get 2d20 acid dmg scaled with SP.

So the numbers are pretty close, SP is easier to increase and not many stuff are immune to acid, while you don't always get SA.
But, you get an additional 20 PRR, which always awesome to have.

It seems you should always go for Earth (or the other elementals if you want MRR).

The other benefits from Ethereal (skills, blur, invis) are ok, nothing more.

Did I miss anything?
Is there any reason to pick ethereal over the elemental scions?

2d20 is an average of 21 acid damage, assuming you manage to stack 400 acid power on a rogue build that's 105 acid damage. That's IF you get 400 acid power, and I am not aware of any easy spellpower slots for a rogue that will not affect the build/DPS otherwise

SA scales at 150% of power, so the increase is more sharp - baselines of 100 MP/RP are not uncommon so that's already more 125 sneak damage for your 150 hide (assuming the scaling works the way I think it should, from experience it's probably more, but I have not tested this rigorously).

Many late-game mobs (namely outsiders) are highly resistant/immune to acid, and this can be turned to 0 even more easily in reaper. SA uptime is usually high for rogues played right, either having tanks with aggro or consistantly having deception/bluff on. Overall if only for DPS reasons Ethereal should still consistently outperform Earth, so it's up to you to weigh whether the PRR is worth taking.

[Miahoo]

2d20 is an average of 21 acid damage, assuming you manage to stack 400 acid power on a rogue build that's 105 acid damage. That's IF you get 400 acid power, and I am not aware of any easy spellpower slots for a rogue that will not affect the build/DPS otherwise

SA scales at 150% of power, so the increase is more sharp - baselines of 100 MP/RP are not uncommon so that's already more 125 sneak damage for your 150 hide (assuming the scaling works the way I think it should, from experience it's probably more, but I have not tested this rigorously).

Many late-game mobs (namely outsiders) are highly resistant/immune to acid, and this can be turned to 0 even more easily in reaper. SA uptime is usually high for rogues played right, either having tanks with aggro or consistantly having deception/bluff on. Overall if only for DPS reasons Ethereal should still consistently outperform Earth, so it's up to you to weigh whether the PRR is worth taking.

60 (lvl 30) + 15 (Ship) + 30 (Scion) + 159 Corrosion (Cannith Crafting/Augment) + 28/29 (Spellcasting Implement) + 30 (Spell Craft*) [+ 34 Quality Potency (Celestial Sage)]
* Without an item, without putting points in it

So I get 300 SP with barely any effort - can easily get to 400+ with a potency item (to replace the hide item from lshroud).

To be fair with calculation - I have ~150 MP, not 100.
But as you can see - the numbers are close.

Which mobs are immune to acid? I didn't notice any in rl.

[askrj1]

60 (lvl 30) + 15 (Ship) + 30 (Scion) + 159 Corrosion (Cannith Crafting/Augment) + 28/29 (Spellcasting Implement) + 30 (Spell Craft*) [+ 34 Quality Potency (Celestial Sage)]
* Without an item, without putting points in it

So I get 300 SP with barely any effort - can easily get to 400+ with a potency item (to replace the hide item from lshroud).

To be fair with calculation - I have ~150 MP, not 100.
But as you can see - the numbers are close.

Which mobs are immune to acid? I didn't notice any in rl.

If just RL not that many I think, the immune mobs I can recall off the top of my head are wisps and the optional Abbot in Sunrise. A good number of resistant ones that can reduce the effectivenes significantly: Devils in Mad Tea, Golems in Sunrise, Shadows in Dinner and Strahd raid, maybe a small handful more I missed.

150MP actually scales 50 SA into 162.5, 450 spellpower puts scion at 115.5 average acid.

[Miahoo]

If just RL not that many I think, the immune mobs I can recall off the top of my head are wisps and the optional Abbot in Sunrise. A good number of resistant ones that can reduce the effectivenes significantly: Devils in Mad Tea, Golems in Sunrise, Shadows in Dinner and Strahd raid, maybe a small handful more I missed.

150MP actually scales 50 SA into 162.5, 450 spellpower puts scion at 115.5 average acid.

well thats not that many immune mobs... and I assassinate most of them (except the red names).

it seems like 50dmg/swing, which is alot, but we forget that the acid dmg is 100% of the time (when the mob not immune), while SA affected by fort and aggro.
And I free a whole slot.
Without that slot (for hide) I run with ~100hide, can make it 120 with an augment vs 300SP with the same setup.

Which hide item do u guys run with? I simply cannot afford the lgs item slot.

[askrj1]

I personally rarely hit 150 hide, more like 100-120, just with Shadowhail Cloak.

Keep in mind fort is not the problem in general for a cap rogue, between Precision, Opportunist, Leg. Silent Avenger and Molten Silver Gaunts you're already on 92% fort pierce. Even on constructs and undead that's nearly full negation, and unless they changed their policy on raid bosses purple names only have 75% regardless of type.

Sneak immunity is what you need to be aware of, which is why you need to be diligent in keeping Assassin's Trick up; this further removes any issues you should have with fort. I'm usually on acrobat for melee rogue, but TWF on an assassin should proc deception enough to keep SA going as well, lastly there's always Shiv to throw in - even if with aggro your SA uptime should be well over 80%. In most practical cases if you're assassinating it makes no difference which you use because DPS is not relevant in instakill, and if the mob cannot be assassinated I would reasonably expect more DPS from Ethereal. As I said I don't run assassin, so your experience may be different. Bottom line I would say it depends on how much you really value that 20PRR, which I would agree is not insignificant.