What if PvP was bigger in the game?

[Kutalp]

Player against Player action at virtual gaming community.



PVP does not mean immaturity by any means. In the contrary it is a good way of socialising and having fun together with other players. Its sort of a virtual sport.


I would agree that there re bad apple pvpers aswell. Anyhow they dont have the ability to ruin the whole bunch but only their own reputation. So it is easy to avoid the issue; simply rejecting any matches with those kind.


PVP zones would be interesting if classes could be, somehow, balanced and level or equipment did not matter.


Say if game could brought every player to same quality of equipment and balance aoe, close up, aswell as enchantment/summoned npc power; as soon as the players step in to the pvp zone. Then players would be having friendly, fun fights for hours.


The easiest solution to this is; developers can create Arcane caster, Divine caster, Melee Fighter, Ranged rogue as four simple types of original old scholl D&D types. When players load the pvp zone they can choose any of those characters to play and have fun; leaving their original toons back at pve side of the game.


There would not be power creep items or specialites or destinies. +1 to +5 weapons and armors. Ready set feats, spells and weapon sets through simple level ups. Level margin would not be so high. Level 10 being the maximum level. Players can only engage any other player who is three level higher or lower their level.


Avoidance (Dodge/Blur etc) and Hitpoints and saves would not scale harsh. That way the pvp mini game would let players playing a class with lower hit points total, survive an ambush and flee if they do not choose to stay and fight. -Full focus fire from an enitre team or -LAG being the exception. (Sounds a bit like free to play RS of old days)


PVP points/Socialising rewards:

After certain points collected through pvp games,


The leading PVP guild of the server would gain favor and %15 discount at ingame trade. 10 extra item bank slots for guildmates. Twenty extra inventory slot Champion emote. Cosmetic Lion,Tiger companion.

(If the guild looses first place, they become a following guild and can access to those rewards. Companions are swapped automatically. Lion and Tiger can not be summoned anymore.Emotes are swapped aswell. Discount rate, number of bank slots also change. Players will be thought to pull the 5 extra items from the mail. )


Following five guilds would gain %9 discount. 5 extra item bank slot. Twenty extra inventory slot. Guardian emote. Cosmetic Wolf/Hyena companion.


Any guild joining in pvp events would get %3 discount at buy/sell. Two extra item bank slot. Twenty extra inventory slot. Mercenary emote. Cosmetic Hound/Exotic cat companion.


Solitary players without any guild who joins the pvp events would get %3 discount at buy/sell. Two extra item bank slot. Twenty extra inventory slot. Brawler emote. Cosmetic Wild dog/Wild cat companion.



This way pvp would be more player friendly and inviting players to socialise.


Pvp teaming options would be two to four teams of 12 player max (12 vs 12 or 48 players max)


Pvp zone and roleplay options would be:


Castle wars, Ship battles (Existing keeps and castles and battle fields from old and new quests)

Open field, forest, mountain top, under sea battles (Existing wilderness maps)

Arena team battles (Von like arenas with cheering crowd)

Virtual Street gang fights (Random streets of stormreach or Sharn or any random settlement from old and new quests)

Defending your village against bandits (Each team picks a role)


(Multiboxing should be banned from pvp zone)





A Different Type Of Pvp:


Notes for pve to pvp and alliances:

Additionally classes can pick roles as repair man, builder, farmer, cook etc to place the 'breakables' the same way players can damage them. Collecting goods (stone,wood,food production) To fill in barricades, doors, bridges,cellars and the similar.

Players can compete with rivaling villagers to rebuild their village to restart the production after the last bandit attack or natural disaster. The first village to complete the reproduction process and reach to the big settlement from the village would be the winner.

This can be pve to pvp challange between players aswell. Face to face direct damage would be optional and less profitable at this type of pvp.




Free to play for base classes and each type of zone. Extra damage, speed, special attacks should not be available through payment but only through playing and levelling up.


Steam pack sales with reasonable prices for extra visual effects for weapons, armor, combat animations and spells, for new type of pvp maps and for the extra outfits. Some of these can be sold at in game shop aswell.

[cdbd3rd]

....
PVP zones would be interesting if classes could be, somehow, balanced and level or equipment did not matter....

As I mentioned in another thread here in 'the zone', let PvP be a instance where you enter it and embody an unarmored level 1 fighter with a stick. Period. Start whacking.

[lyrecono]

some text.

PVP does not mean immaturity by any means.
It does, it always has, from wow, aion, legions of gutter shooters, etc, pvp leads to agression, abuse, frustration, and goes against everything this pve game stands for.

If you want pvp, there are legions of kids gamesthat cater to that crowd, including mmo's.

This is a team based pve game with serious ballence issues as is.
The devs coule properly ballence the game when the cap was 20, more then half a decade later and it has only gotten worse.
Even in high reaper, most player run the same couple of builds, because the power is in their favor
If devs can't ballance a pve game correctly, would you trust them with a pvp ballancing act?


The Pvp you want, would require a rework of epic proportions, aka, costing money, not enough people would buy such a "pack".

Thus no development or rewards should be connected to pvp
A different system, intended to challenge players polerised the community and led to endless clones arming reaper mode
If powerfull rewards are attached to pvp, people will abuse it to efficiently farm out more power.


And why ask a dev team for something you could fix yourself?
Just make a post on the forum to meat up in the wayfinder marketplace pvp area with lv 1 toons and start to pvp on your own.

[Kutalp]

PVP does not mean immaturity by any means.
It does, it always has, from wow, aion, legions of gutter shooters, etc, pvp leads to agression, abuse, frustration, and goes against everything this pve game stands for.

If you want pvp, there are legions of kids gamesthat cater to that crowd, including mmo's.

This is a team based pve game with serious ballence issues as is.
The devs coule properly ballence the game when the cap was 20, more then half a decade later and it has only gotten worse.
Even in high reaper, most player run the same couple of builds, because the power is in their favor
If devs can't ballance a pve game correctly, would you trust them with a pvp ballancing act?


The Pvp you want, would require a rework of epic proportions, aka, costing money, not enough people would buy such a "pack".

Thus no development or rewards should be connected to pvp
A different system, intended to challenge players polerised the community and led to endless clones arming reaper mode
If powerfull rewards are attached to pvp, people will abuse it to efficiently farm out more power.


And why ask a dev team for something you could fix yourself?
Just make a post on the forum to meat up in the wayfinder marketplace pvp area with lv 1 toons and start to pvp on your own.

Nice to meet you cdbd3rd. Good to see you.


Hi friend, lyrecono.


Alas, you quoted what I wrote as 'Some text'.


It is a bit heartbreaking. Please read my 'text' this time. It is not Drama. You may find something you like and agree there.



I dont know what kind of awful experience did you have what pay to win player against player game ; but pvp is not ' agression, abuse, frustration, and goes against everything this pve game stands for ' as you tell. Same people you have issues at pvp will be problem at pve settings aswell. Those people you mention zerg and yell and shout out at PVE gaming: 'Hjeal meh you @@@@@!'


About age of PvPers. The average age of mmo players is much older than you think; worldwide. It s not even twenties anymore. You can meet players aged 35-65 all around the world at mmos both at pve and pvp action. Most of these people are fathers, mothers and ordinary people working day time and giving breaks to chill out at MMOs.



Now about PvE and PvP at DDO. First of all I would like to tell I like DDO and PvE side. Anyhow...


There is allready no balance at PVE and it is the Same Class/Race combos and Destinies. Cookie cutter builds allaround the place. (Warlock/Artificer/Insta kill ...Reaper-TR...Rinse & Repeat). A build a random player enjoy is ,sadly, called a flavor build and it is a last resort person since it doesnt use a cookie cutter build.


TRing forever and meaningless Reaper runs is another. Hell boring and there is no reason to do those. It is not the adventure or questing itself.



A Purple Dragon Knight to Epic TR full charisma and constitution Enlightened spirit Warlock. TR 10/10 with one toon while keeping another one ready lvl 30 as Pure warlock. Just to jump any Reaper run for virtual satisfaction. Now who would play that forever ?


I only revisit adventures and play any newer ones I didnt touch through years during my long breaks to real life. I love the game but can find nothing to socialise at. This is real Massively multiplayer online gaming Player versus environment now ?


Many years ago when I was last here with this newer account at 2016 (My older account was active at 2012-14 before I left untill 2016) we used to have fun pvp at Wayward lobster. All ranges of levels fun PVP ed there as guilds. Players were not negative at anything since we didnt have to pay to win or loose just to pvp. You could hear players laugh and giggle and have fun. That was all.


I am sure there re good number of players who would like to have player made pvp action at allready existing DDO maps with developer put rules and more simplistic class settings to ensure the balance and fair gaming.


Trust me there re alot players who enjoy both PvP and PvE at the same time. When the PvP side is developed non pay to win then there is no issues at PvP, but alot of fun and socialising with other players. Given the chance, more of these old scholl players start to show up.


Stay cool and have fun there.

[lyrecono]

Nice to meet you cdbd3rd. Good to see you.


Hi friend, lyrecono.


Alas, you quoted what I wrote as 'Some text'.


It is a bit heartbreaking. Please read my 'text' this time. It is not Drama. You may find something you like and agree there.



I dont know what kind of awful experience did you have what pay to win player against player game ; but pvp is not ' agression, abuse, frustration, and goes against everything this pve game stands for ' as you tell. Same people you have issues at pvp will be problem at pve settings aswell. Those people you mention zerg and yell and shout out at PVE gaming: 'Hjeal meh you @@@@@!'


About age of PvPers. The average age of mmo players is much older than you think; worldwide. It s not even twenties anymore. You can meet players aged 35-65 all around the world at mmos both at pve and pvp action. Most of these people are fathers, mothers and ordinary people working day time and giving breaks to chill out at MMOs.



Now about PvE and PvP at DDO. First of all I would like to tell I like DDO and PvE side. Anyhow...


There is allready no balance at PVE and it is the Same Class/Race combos and Destinies. Cookie cutter builds allaround the place. (Warlock/Artificer/Insta kill ...Reaper-TR...Rinse & Repeat). A build a random player enjoy is ,sadly, called a flavor build and it is a last resort person since it doesnt use a cookie cutter build.


TRing forever and meaningless Reaper runs is another. Hell boring and there is no reason to do those. It is not the adventure or questing itself.



A Purple Dragon Knight to Epic TR full charisma and constitution Enlightened spirit Warlock. TR 10/10 with one toon while keeping another one ready lvl 30 as Pure warlock. Just to jump any Reaper run for virtual satisfaction. Now who would play that forever ?


I only revisit adventures and play any newer ones I didnt touch through years during my long breaks to real life. I love the game but can find nothing to socialise at. This is real Massively multiplayer online gaming Player versus environment now ?


Many years ago when I was last here with this newer account at 2016 (older account was around 2012-14 before I left) we used to have fun pvp at Wayward lobster. All ranges of levels fun PVP ed there as guilds. Players were not negative at anything since we didnt have to pay to win or loose just to pvp. You could hear players laugh and giggle and have fun. That was all.


I am sure there re good number of players who would like to have player made pvp action at allready existing DDO maps with developer put rules and more simplistic class settings to ensure the balance and fair gaming.


Trust me there re alot players who enjoy both PvP and PvE at the same time. When the PvP side is developed non pay to win then there is no issues at PvP, but alot of fun and socialising with other players. Given the chance, more of these old scholl players start to show up.


Stay cool and have fun there.

When people shorten a long text, it's to shrten the overal post
Long posts are oftrn skipped.
The wall of text gets replaced by;
Long text,
Wall of text,
Snipped, etc
If people want to read the text just like i did, they can click on the link

Anyway, the pvp scene on my server has always been a toxic crowd, their toons and guilds are bared from questing and raids due to their behaviour.
From what i can tell, the same goes for other servers.
The idea that you never noticed it, doesn't mean it isn't there, you only have been around a relatively short amount of time, our collective memoiries span a longer distance and found the pvp community problematic.


As for pvp ballance, no
The devs are unable to do it in the main game, pvp wouldn't be any different.

If old players want to return, fine, have m play the game, if current pvp isn't good enough, a revamped system won't hold their attention for long either. Ballence requires constant attention.

[Alrik_Fassbauer]

My very personal opinion on PvP is this : If PvP was bigger within that game, we'd get much more of this insanely stupid puberty "trash talk", too.
You really have no idea what I have read in the PvP chat of SWTOR. It is just ... nauseating.
Plus, PvP oriented personalities, flooding the chat with ... Uh ...
To be frank, I'm so glad PvP isn't a thing here in DDO. It's one of the things that drive me away from SWTOR to DDO again. And I don't want to be driven away again.

[Yokido]

Bigger in the game? Sure!

Any complex system? No thanks, and it wouldn't sell to either SSG or the public anyway.

Simple DDO-friendly PVP upgrade: Allow players to 1v1 duel in any public place (of course allowing them to cast offensive spells otherwise not permitted etc), and perhaps offer a once-a-day reward (either random xp or a random consumable item) for winning, with a much smaller consolation for losing.

[xavyre]

The PVP in this game was amazing back in the day. The Wayward Lobster pvp was some of the most memorable moments I had in gaming as a kid. I really wish it was more popular but I can see why it wouldn't be too popular anymore (mostly due to the game not being balanced around pvp). It's a shame though that it isn't encouraged at all and there isn't a playerbase interested.

[Drunkendex]

Plus, PvP oriented personalities, flooding the chat with ... Uh ...

When I started DDO years ago, very first player I put on squelch list was someone who spammed harbor chat calling everyone to PVP and started being VERY rude when people told him to stop.

[Gniewomir]

When I started DDO years ago, very first player I put on squelch list was someone who spammed harbor chat calling everyone to PVP and started being VERY rude when people told him to stop.

Fortunately all chats are nowadays empty.

[KoobTheProud]

There is no way PvP is going to work in the DDO system.

The classes, enhancements and epic destinies make balance virtually impossible in the PvP environment. That's because any class can pick any epic destiny and any epic feats, not to mention the notion of class is almost laughable in a mix and match 20 level environment.

The most likely result of enhanced PvP would be a half dozen cookie cutter builds that were more devastating and/or survivable than everything else with an occasional rotation as new classes/enhancements and changes to existing epic destinies occurred.

Those half dozen builds would play rock-paper-scissors with latency and packet loss playing an enormous role in who was alive and who was dead 30 seconds into the battle.

[elvesunited]

Just off on pure theory:
( effective PVP would require a lot of work and DDO has bigger fish to fry )

Problem -> potential solution

Need someplace to do it -> An arena type building that allows players to challenge each other.
Need rewards to generate interest -> But not so high as to upset those with no interest in PVP
Dying too quickly -> HP would likely need to be greatly increased while fighting PVP
Overpowered spell damage -> Spell damage would have to be decreased
No defense against DC casting -> Reduce the duration of crowd control effects
Slowing down Kiters -> Significantly reduce movement speed for short time after distance attack.

And that's just the start. I'm sure it would be a constant stream of tweaks and nerfs as players figure out different tricks that give themselves an unbeatable advantage.

[SirValentine]

Need someplace to do it -> An arena type building that allows players to challenge each other.

Why is this listed as a problem? There are already lots of places to do PvP, a challenge system, different arena maps, et cetera.

I keep seeing people saying things that make it seem like they have no clue how much PvP is already available for anyone who wants it. Not just in this thread. The simple fact is, the vast majority of DDO players are not interested in killing each other.

Need rewards to generate interest -> But not so high as to upset those with no interest in PVP

Why should devs try to artificially generate interest? If people are interested killing each other instead of being heroes, why can't they just go do that right now without rewards? Let their bragging rights be their reward.

No defense against DC casting -> Reduce the duration of crowd control effects

The whole point of DC casting is that there is an automatic defense against it: the saving throw. Plus, lots of spells have lots of ways people can just be immune to them, too: Freedom of Movement, deathblock, spell absorption, et cetera.

I'm sure it would be a constant stream of tweaks and nerfs...

Are you expecting these to also affect the real game? Or are you expecting devs to keep two separate versions of every race/class/enhancement/destiny ability, the PvP and the non-PvP versions?

[Gniewomir]

The simple fact is, the vast majority of DDO players are not interested in killing each other.

Every system/mechanic/game/programme fades away when it's not being supported. Your statement might be accurate right now, but is historically false. There was not so small part of community interested in pvp, if they're not here now, it's only cause they already left cause of lack of any support/updates.

Why should devs try to artificially generate interest? If people are interested killing each other instead of being heroes, why can't they just go do that right now without rewards?

Huh, huh, huh? Trying to artificially generate interest through various rewards is what turbine/ssg is doing all the time for last 10 years, for some reasons you've got nothing against it if it affects only pve.

[SirValentine]

Your statement might be accurate right now, but is historically false.

Even 10 years ago, the percentage interested in PvP was small. (The total number was larger, of course, because DDO's total population was larger.)

Maybe back then it was just a "large majority" instead of a "vast majority"? Sure, whatever, that's fine.

There's lots of PvP support in the game already. If you want to use it, go for it. But the fact is, it's almost never used now, and was rarely used even years ago.

[Silverleafeon]

There already is. Just talk to Jackson Laws in any tavern.

+1 well said

These can be used to organize tournaments.
I did so with a good friend in the "Hunger Games" competitions.

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...ds-be-with-you!
https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...avor!%E2%80%9D

There are two death arenas and two capture the flag arenas (locate them simply by clicking on another player and choosing "challenge" option.)

[blackestblack]

to sum that up, you have to have the opportunity to drop down and randomly stab someone in the back. the possibility of wicked pvp maneuvers is what people need to have before sportsmanship behavior can take place. palapk in d2 opened up because there was a vast world where palapk didnt exist.