Some ideas for feat changes

[FuzzyDuck81]

A bunch of the older feats eg. all of those +skill ones for example might have been useful back in the day, but in todays game they're pretty much only there for the sake of completeness, so I think a load of them could do with some improvements. Any further suggestions are welcome too

Defensive fighting: according to the wiki, "casting a spell ends this mode" - is this still a thing? If so, remove this part for all the warpriests & eldritch knights out there.

Trip: expand this (as well as improved trip & other trip based attacks) to be highest of STR or DEX for determining DC please - fluff-wise, it's the difference between knocking someone's feet out from under them vs. tangling them up & making them trip themselves, it'd help make things far more interesting for rangers, rogues & monks in particular to add some extra reliable crowd control.

Combat Expertise: reduce the spell cooldown increase to only 2x, for the warpriests & eldritch knights.

Resilience: As above, reduce the cooldown increase to 2x. Also, change the saving throw bonus to scale with character level eg. initial +2 then an extra +1 per 5 character levels, for a total of +8 at level 30.

Improved fortification: base fortification increased to 100%, loses ability to be healed from positive energy... thats a serious penalty for not much real benefit in today's game, the benefits need to be significantly improved to make this at all worth taking - I think this should also grant 75% reduction in damage from negative energy & poison (there's still a soul & a few leftover wooden bits for negative energy to hit & seriously powerful poisons can still be corrosive) plus an extra +20 repair amplification & 5% reduction to all damage, the same type as barbarians get.

Skill focus & other general +skill feats: I've been playing pathfinder recently & they're pretty much universally +X (+3 for skill focus, +2 each for those that boost 2 skills) which doubles when 10 points have been invested in the skill - that's probably tricky to code, but changing them to have a scaling effect with 1 point less initially then adding +1 per 5 character levels would make them more worthwhile; +5 at level 20 for the 2 skills ones & +6 at 20 for the single skill focus feats.

Nimble fingers: add an effect that also reduces time taken to disable traps or open locks by 25%

Stealthy: add an effect that also allows opening of doors & activation of levers & switches without leaving sneak mode, but it takes 3x longer to do so.

Mithril Fluidity: even if other changes to basic warforged body feats are too much, just amending this one to a flat +5 max dex bonus each time would be pretty nice, making a single instance boost a warforged with it to +10 MDB, far more in line with mid level light armours or higher level medium armours & while multiple could be taken, it'd be balanced by the fact that it's a pretty hefty feat tax to get what a regular meatbag can accomplish with standard light armour & no feat or even enhancement investment can manage.

[Saekee]

/signed

how about the snake blood one?

[Enoach]

A bunch of the older feats eg. all of those +skill ones for example might have been useful back in the day, but in todays game they're pretty much only there for the sake of completeness, so I think a load of them could do with some improvements. Any further suggestions are welcome too

Defensive fighting: according to the wiki, "casting a spell ends this mode" - is this still a thing? If so, remove this part for all the warpriests & eldritch knights out there.

At one point this was how Combat Expertise was implemented and they changed CE to a 3x cooldown on spells cast. The idea behind this is to avoid creating a highly defensive spell caster. Keep in mind that back when this was implemented it was possible to have an AC that was only hit-able on a 20.

I actually agree that dropping this stance on spell casting has long been something no longer required to preserve any balance between spell casters in melee range vs non-spell casters in melee range.

Trip: expand this (as well as improved trip & other trip based attacks) to be highest of STR or DEX for determining DC please - fluff-wise, it's the difference between knocking someone's feet out from under them vs. tangling them up & making them trip themselves, it'd help make things far more interesting for rangers, rogues & monks in particular to add some extra reliable crowd control.

This one I'm not sure I agree completely. I could see adding in a Feat/Enhancement that allows you to use DEX vs STR. However, I think it would also be a good idea to revisit some of the weapons that actually enhanced Trip, such as the Khopesh instead of giving it a 3x crit when it should be 2x, add in a bonus to trip.

On improved trip, personally I think it should reduce the cooldown of the trip action. This would allow a build specialized in tripping to be more apt at using this feature.

Combat Expertise: reduce the spell cooldown increase to only 2x, for the warpriests & eldritch knights.

In my opinion this also effects that Paladin Tank much more then what this was intended to preserve the balance between melee and casters on defense. It is another aspect that I feel is long due for removal.

Resilience: As above, reduce the cooldown increase to 2x. Also, change the saving throw bonus to scale with character level eg. initial +2 then an extra +1 per 5 character levels, for a total of +8 at level 30.

I also agree that cooldown increases don't make sense today for this feat. However, maybe it shouldn't scale with level but with BaB.

Improved fortification: base fortification increased to 100%, loses ability to be healed from positive energy... thats a serious penalty for not much real benefit in today's game, the benefits need to be significantly improved to make this at all worth taking - I think this should also grant 75% reduction in damage from negative energy & poison (there's still a soul & a few leftover wooden bits for negative energy to hit & seriously powerful poisons can still be corrosive) plus an extra +20 repair amplification & 5% reduction to all damage, the same type as barbarians get.

This is actually one of those feats that made some sense back when WF was a much more popular race and getting 100% fortification was "hard". I agree this particular feat needs some revamping. I think it should also grant PRR.

I like the idea of granting Repair Amplifacation. But I'm not so sure that negative & poison damage reduction is right for this feat.

However, maybe it could instead of being a total loss of positive energy healing but instead be an additional reduction in positive energy healing.

Skill focus & other general +skill feats: I've been playing pathfinder recently & they're pretty much universally +X (+3 for skill focus, +2 each for those that boost 2 skills) which doubles when 10 points have been invested in the skill - that's probably tricky to code, but changing them to have a scaling effect with 1 point less initially then adding +1 per 5 character levels would make them more worthwhile; +5 at level 20 for the 2 skills ones & +6 at 20 for the single skill focus feats.

Actually in PnP these feats had niche uses but were mostly "feat traps". While I agree making them scale could make them useful, I wonder if that scaling will make certain ones "Too Good not to take".

Nimble fingers: add an effect that also reduces time taken to disable traps or open locks by 25%

Interesting addition to this feat, nice flavor.

Stealthy: add an effect that also allows opening of doors & activation of levers & switches without leaving sneak mode, but it takes 3x longer to do so.

I like this idea.

As a note/plug - I would also like to see the improved invisibility spell added to the game.

Mithril Fluidity: even if other changes to basic warforged body feats are too much, just amending this one to a flat +5 max dex bonus each time would be pretty nice, making a single instance boost a warforged with it to +10 MDB, far more in line with mid level light armours or higher level medium armours & while multiple could be taken, it'd be balanced by the fact that it's a pretty hefty feat tax to get what a regular meatbag can accomplish with standard light armour & no feat or even enhancement investment can manage.

I would like to see the Mithril body type be classified as Medium Armor with the benefits of Medium armor. And a different body type added for Light Armor.


I would also like to see that Armor Agility applied to a Docent would add to the dex/dodge bonus. I believe currently they only apply to the armor/shield they are attached to.

[FuzzyDuck81]

how about the snake blood one?

Not sure - I was only really going with ones I had some specific idea for improving

This is actually one of those feats that made some sense back when WF was a much more popular race and getting 100% fortification was "hard". I agree this particular feat needs some revamping. I think it should also grant PRR.

I like the idea of granting Repair Amplifacation. But I'm not so sure that negative & poison damage reduction is right for this feat.

I would like to see the Mithril body type be classified as Medium Armor with the benefits of Medium armor. And a different body type added for Light Armor.

I was originally considering MRR rather than PRR actually, but throwing in a bit of the flat % barbarian-style damage resistance would be more useful overall I think since it'd never run into the max MRR issue without a regular body feat & could probably be made to stack with the barbarian one if you wanted a particularly damage-resistant barbarian - not necessarily the most optimised approach but hey, it's another option. Also, having that plus the negative & poison reduction seemed a good idea to me as I interpret the improved fortification feat as moving the WF closer to being a true construct, which all have complete poison & negative energy immunity in addition to resistance to (or even the ability to be healed/buffed by) spell damage.

I'd like to have more distinctive body feat types for each armour type too, but I figured the suggestion I made would likely be the easiest to implement from a coding perspective for the devs, since it presumably only involves changing 1 thing - though considering the spaghetti code in DDO sometimes it'd likely end up making hostile beholders spawn in the marketplace or something

[Enoach]

I was originally considering MRR rather than PRR actually, but throwing in a bit of the flat % barbarian-style damage resistance would be more useful overall I think since it'd never run into the max MRR issue without a regular body feat & could probably be made to stack with the barbarian one if you wanted a particularly damage-resistant barbarian - not necessarily the most optimised approach but hey, it's another option. Also, having that plus the negative & poison reduction seemed a good idea to me as I interpret the improved fortification feat as moving the WF closer to being a true construct, which all have complete poison & negative energy immunity in addition to resistance to (or even the ability to be healed/buffed by) spell damage.

I'd like to have more distinctive body feat types for each armour type too, but I figured the suggestion I made would likely be the easiest to implement from a coding perspective for the devs, since it presumably only involves changing 1 thing - though considering the spaghetti code in DDO sometimes it'd likely end up making hostile beholders spawn in the marketplace or something

It makes sense from that perspective, then it should probably also add SR with the counter being ASF. This would balance out the attractiveness for Melee types vs Caster.

But just like you I would like to see more body types added for the WF

[Ballrus]

Improved trip add helpless and no need combat expertise;

Bullheaded: now you use your str mod for will saves.

[FuzzyDuck81]

Improved trip add helpless and no need combat expertise;

Bullheaded: now you use your str mod for will saves.

removing combat expertise requirement for improved trip would be nice, though i suspect if they added helpless to it it'd become necessary to remove the increased duration (it's up to 60sec!) & personally, I rather like being able to make a quick attack to keep an enemy locked down for a while to you deal with another

Nice idea for bullheaded I guess it could also be argued that for outright stubbornness CON could work too thematically, but then that'd be 2 save types derived from 1 stat, which is a lot less likely to happen.

[Annex]

Burt the Hobbit: Excuse me, good, umm, sir. I was made to understand you could help me with a small yet rather large personal dilemma involving my feet. You see, I wish to change them.

Fred the Mindflayer: Fine. Fine. Solving this 65th order differential equation that will end world hunger and banish Coyle Lovell to the Phantom Zone can wait. What feat are you looking to change?

Burt the Hobbit: Well, my feet are rather large and hairy in a most unseemly way, you see.

Fred the Mindflayer: What? You have hairy feats? How is that even possible?

Burt the Hobbit: Well, I am not sure, really. Aunt Petunia was rather well known for her large and hairy feet. They were of a much pronounced and unusually large size as such things go. Perhaps we inherited our large and hairy feet from a distant relative. Probably a Took.

Fred the Mindflayer: A took? Have you been smoking cryptmoss?

Burt the Hobbit: Why no, good sir. Is it good to smoke? I have my pipe right handy if you think that would help.

Fred the Mindflayer: Help? It would kill you!

Burt the Hobbit: Oh my goodness gracious me! That will not do! That will not do at all! That cure is rather more severe than I had hoped!

Fred the Mindflayer: *looks down* *tentacles droop* Oh.

Burt the Hobbit: Oh dear. Is it that bad. Do you believe my feet to be beyond repair? *wiggles his hairy toes*

Fred the Mindflayer: I do not work with those kind of feet. Good god, they are huge.

Burt the Hobbit: Alas! Alas! Hope is dashed to change my feet!

Fred the Mindflayer: Wait. There is another.

Burt the Hobbit: Another? You mean someone else may help with my overly large and hairy feet?

Fred the Mindflayer: Yes. You need to talk to the Fate Spinner. But first, you need to reach level 20 and collect 20 Tokens of the Twelve.

Burt the Hobbit: Oh dear. That sounds rather difficult. Even perilous. I was hoping to spend the evening before the hearth eating roast mutton with spiced potatoes.

Fred the Mindflayer: For a clueless...whatever you are..., yes. Extremely difficult. You will probably die at level 1. I recommend smoking the cryptmoss.

Burt the Hobbit: My word!

Sophie the Cat Burglar: Hi Fred!

Fred the Mindflayer: I am never going to solve this differential equation. What do you want ? I cannot help you change your feats. My amazing mental powers are useless on a bubblehead like you.

Burt the Hobbit: Good day, Miss. I am Burt, a Hobbit of The Shire, you should know. My. Your attire is rather. Oh dear.

Sophie the Cat Burglar: Good day, Mister Burt! It's a catsuit. *looks at Fred* I was in the area and simply wished to offer a polite greeting.

Fred the Mindflayer: Lovely. Then you will be on your way.

Sophie the Cat Burglar: How rude!

Burt the Hobbit: How rude!

Sophie the Cat Burglar: I know!

Burt the Hobbit: I know!

Sophie the Cat Burglar: *giggles*

Burt the Hobbit: *giggles*

Fred the Mindflayer: *places hands over ears* Ahhhhhh! That sound!!! STOP!!!!!!

Sophie the Cat Burglar: So dour. Why are you here, Mister Burt?

Burt the Hobbit: I came to this rather odd fellow in hope of changing my feet. They are rather large and hairy, you see.

Vexa the Dagger: Whoa!

Fred the Mindflayer: I cannot change hairy feet or the feats of bubbleheads. A much as it pains me to admit this, some things are beyond even my vast intellectual capacity. Now please leave. The 65th order differential equation I am pondering will not solve itself.

Sophie the Cat Burglar: *shrugs* Let's see if one of the wizards specializing in polymorph magic can help.

Burt the Hobbit: This gentleman suggested I reach level 20 and obtain 20 Tokens of the Twelve, whatever those are, and then speak with someone called The Fate Spinner.

Vexa the Dagger: No way. You won't make it past level 1.

Fred the Mindflayer: Exactly.

Sophie the Cat Burglar: *glares at Fred*

Vexa the Dagger: Never mind calamari face. We need someone who specializes in a new feets, not old feats.

Fred the Mindflayer: Now that was racist!

Vexa the Dagger: Whatever, squid for brains. Let's go. Good grief they are huge. So. Hey. They say that if feet are huge, so is...

Sophie the Cat Burglar: STOP!

Burt the Hobbit: I am afraid I do not understand Miss...

Sophie the Cat Burglar: Sophie. Pleased to meet you. This is my dagger, Miss Vexa. She was talking about the, uhh, aqueduct. That one.

Burt the Hobbit: Oh, yes. That is rather large and impressive.

Vexa the Dagger: Giants. Always compensating.

[SoVeryBelgian]

I really like the idea to speed up trapping with Nimble Fingers. Makes it more flavorful.


I'd also like to see WF Body Feats revamped... Mithril Body, Adamantine Body, Ironwood Body (For Druids)?


And rather than Scaling skills, I'd just be content with +5 instead of +3. They're not meant to be overdone.


Snakeblood could def use a rework, and Feint Attack should be free for Rogues at a certain level IMO.

[Yokido]

+1, make outdated feats more usable... Though I may not agree with OP's particular suggestions.

[Saekee]

Interestingly, builds tend to be more AP starved than feats. The latter fact means that feats need an update. Great ideas here.

[PsychoBlonde]

Interestingly, builds tend to be more AP starved than feats. The latter fact means that feats need an update. Great ideas here.

Well, unless you're me and you keep stupidly trying to make characters who can do several different things at once.

[Dulcimerist]

I like the idea of the Skill Focus feats scaling up!

For some of the less-popular feats, it would be interesting if some of the lamer ones granted a Racial AP. Unsure if that would sway anyone into selecting them, though. (Swapping out that feat with Fred would then reset enhancements, of course.)