Tempests are Rediculous

[RavenNight91]

Soundburst, and its analogous abilities mass hold and Burst of Glacial Wrath all produce a caster AoE stuns end game, at the cost of casting investment, which locks you out of doing dps end game.

Dire Charge produces that same caster AoE stun without the caster investment, without the lockout of doing dps.



And that is how you end up with mass frog aasimar falconry monk that does single target and AoE dps, single target and AoE heals, single target and AoE instant kills, single target and AoE CCs, while having tanking and avoidance, wings and move speed.

Sound burst is broken garbage with a short cd and it even works on undeads or reapers so it should not exist. Dire charge is fine and you need to shut up and stop crying like a baby

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Soundburst, and its analogous abilities mass hold and Burst of Glacial Wrath all produce a caster AoE stuns end game, at the cost of casting investment, which locks you out of doing dps end game.

Dire Charge produces that same caster AoE stun without the caster investment, without the lockout of doing dps.



And that is how you end up with mass frog aasimar falconry monk that does single target and AoE dps, single target and AoE heals, single target and AoE instant kills, single target and AoE CCs, while having tanking and avoidance, wings and move speed.

That monk build you're talking about... ...it doesn't do any of that particularly well.
And you're staring down the barrel of a caster pass that is going to give them reasonable dps: it comes at a penality to crowd control and healing though.

Specialists still do specialty tasks the best. It's just in R1 heroics that everything falls apart. At endgame we have defined roles.

There are 5 attributes to a build in game.
Red name damage / Debuffs.
Trash damage / Instakills.
Crowd Control.
Defense.
Healing.

Melee traditionally get a high rating on damage and defense; however, ranged and casters can reach comparable levels of PRR and HP, yet melee still have to be in melee range. A ranged or caster (or even kiting tank) with 200 PRR and 2000 hp has a defense rating of 10. The melee gets a defense rating of 4 because it has to be in close range. That was the impetous behind the Epic Defensive Fighting feat as well as Dire charge---and melee's comparatively higher dps. They need to get stuff to compensate for the OPPORTUNITY PENALTY of being in melee.

[Sunnie]

What 30 second test are you referring to?

My guess is kobold beatdowns on lamaland.

[Tlorrd]

Sound burst is broken garbage with a short cd and it even works on undeads or reapers so it should not exist. Dire charge is fine and you need to shut up and stop crying like a baby

Whatever happened to Fran?

[cave_diver]

[Chai]

Disagree you don't have to be a completionist to demonstrate potential while in the same group.

List of builds that break the 30 second mark consistently on first life characters, Edit (Full ED's). But not Completionist.

1.Tempest Average Time: 24.1

2.Assassin Average Time: 25.5

3.Wolf 9 Druid 8 Fighter 3 Monk 26.4

4.kensei/Monk 26.9

5.Kensei/VKF 27.83

6.Swash/Kensei/VKF 28.9

When one of those test kobolds hits your 250 PRR character for 4K we can talk.

Also, if they undid every kensai, paladin, and bard nerf and proxy nerf, where would those be placed on this test?

To part of your 2nd point
As it should be no harder than it is for the TR train, or many would leave the game.

TL;DR: The mass exodus threat meter goes straight to plaid often during those discussions. Mass exodus has yet to occur, even once.

Kind of ironic, we aggregated a 61% majority overlap on the audience which lobbied hard for elite to stay easy (claimed they would quit if elite was made elite again), and the audience which demanded challenge before reaper was introduced due to "game is too easy."

Its also very ironic that the same market audience threatens to leave if elite is made harder, but it willing to accept reaper as the new standard. These types of contradictions show us how hollow threats of leaving over this rally are.

Agreed, Reaper 5-10 needs an upgrade.

And the minute any hint of that being taken seriously on the forums occurs, a portion of those who are regularly defeating those settings would bamboozle the devs into toning it back down, or not upgrading it at all.

[zehnvhex]

Whatever happened to Fran?

He posted about how living in his moms attic was a road to nowhere and quit the game to try to fix his life earlier this year. He vanished after that so hopefully he's gotten some well needed help.

[Shadow_Jumper]

The Pandemonium Soul Enraged Bear needs to hit a 240 prr melee for 4k because the presence of caster AoE stuns (and mass frog) on melee creates an environment where too much AoE CC/instant kills and damage are present in end game groups, and it basically never gets that hit off. Get the picture?

I don't play a caster role very much (just dipping my toes in now with a caster alt), so those that do know more can correct me, but there are a variety of mobs that are immune to CC/Hold. What comes to mind are Aboreian and Law mark champions. I'mm pretty sure Panemonium champs cannot ve CCed by regular means either, but I may be wrong.

Assuming that endgame is everything, all the time, in every instance, is 100% CCed just shows that you really have no experience other than the factually incorrect misconceptions that you have gotten from other forumites who assume also. To say that those bears never get a chance to wack melee is factually incorrect. 4K dmg is incoming hits that ive seen from champion bears in r10 age of rage. 100% control is just straight up impossible in most instances

CC is a large part of current reaper runs right now. And the Arcane role is generally responsible for that. But due to immune mobs, champions, sometime bad pulls, or straight up ganks 100% CC is fairly rare. Dire Charge gives melee a tool to use in mob initiation, emergency mob management, and to take down high threat mobs.

Also, if they undid every kensai, paladin, and bard nerf and proxy nerf, where would those be placed on this test?

At this point this just needs to be Chai's signature.

[Fedora1]

who simply want to have a fun, balanced, skill based game at cap because they find the grind wall so repetitive and boring.

With a limited number of quests, how is end-game not a grind if you stay there running the same end-game quests over and over?

Legit question, not a troll.

[Shadow_Jumper]

With a limited number of quests, how is end-game not a grind if you stay there running the same end-game quests over and over?

Legit question, not a troll.

I generally run reapers or raids with friends/guildies at cap. Having fun with friends does gloss over the size of the endgame more. Either way, I don't really feel pressure to keep up with a say leveling partner, or run to cap. I just log on and find a group either through the lfm or several personal channels/tells.

[Singular]

When one of those test kobolds hits your 250 PRR character for 4K we can talk.

Also, if they undid every kensai, paladin, and bard nerf and proxy nerf, where would those be placed on this test?




TL;DR: The mass exodus threat meter goes straight to plaid often during those discussions. Mass exodus has yet to occur, even once.

Kind of ironic, we aggregated a 61% majority overlap on the audience which lobbied hard for elite to stay easy (claimed they would quit if elite was made elite again), and the audience which demanded challenge before reaper was introduced due to "game is too easy."

Its also very ironic that the same market audience threatens to leave if elite is made harder, but it willing to accept reaper as the new standard. These types of contradictions show us how hollow threats of leaving over this rally are.



And the minute any hint of that being taken seriously on the forums occurs, a portion of those who are regularly defeating those settings would bamboozle the devs into toning it back down, or not upgrading it at all.

Some of us really did leave the game because EE was too easy, and only returned recently to try out reaper.

[noinfo]

I don't play a caster role very much (just dipping my toes in now with a caster alt), so those that do know more can correct me, but there are a variety of mobs that are immune to CC/Hold. What comes to mind are Aboreian and Law mark champions. I'mm pretty sure Panemonium champs cannot ve CCed by regular means either, but I may be wrong.

Assuming that endgame is everything, all the time, in every instance, is 100% CCed just shows that you really have no experience other than the factually incorrect misconceptions that you have gotten from other forumites who assume also. To say that those bears never get a chance to wack melee is factually incorrect. 4K dmg is incoming hits that ive seen from champion bears in r10 age of rage. 100% control is just straight up impossible in most instances

CC is a large part of current reaper runs right now. And the Arcane role is generally responsible for that. But due to immune mobs, champions, sometime bad pulls, or straight up ganks 100% CC is fairly rare. Dire Charge gives melee a tool to use in mob initiation, emergency mob management, and to take down high threat mobs.




At this point this just needs to be Chai's signature.

Relying on instakills and hold will eventually get you dead in reapers. Those 2 are good candidates for flesh to stone (web should be ok but rarely use it now days), well rounded dc's make your life easier and its single target so I go mass hold, cod, whats moving check to see it its law with db etc and stone it, if not fod/web/pwk/pk have a ready to go set up symbol of stunning if a really large number. Everything is not always cc but it does depend on how careful the caster is, cause do something stupid and you are dead.

[noinfo]

I generally run reapers or raids with friends/guildies at cap. Having fun with friends does gloss over the size of the endgame more. Either way, I don't really feel pressure to keep up with a say leveling partner, or run to cap. I just log on and find a group either through the lfm or several personal channels/tells.

This + you get to use the whole array of abilities that you have worked hard to have with your character, it can be all it can be without having to say oh if only I was level x I would have access to this and could have done y.

[Tilomere]

I don't play a caster role very much (just dipping my toes in now with a caster alt), so those that do know more can correct me, but there are a variety of mobs that are immune to CC/Hold. What comes to mind are Aboreian and Law mark champions. I'mm pretty sure Panemonium champs cannot ve CCed by regular means either, but I may be wrong.

Assuming that endgame is everything, all the time, in every instance, is 100% CCed just shows that you really have no experience other than the factually incorrect misconceptions that you have gotten from other forumites who assume also. To say that those bears never get a chance to wack melee is factually incorrect. 4K dmg is incoming hits that ive seen from champion bears in r10 age of rage. 100% control is just straight up impossible in most instances

No champion buff protects against stun. Champions were designed when sorcs and wizards were destroying everything to primarily defend against arcanes, so they have FoM, deathward, mind blank vs. charms, and true seeing vs. displacement and invis.

Don't go all absolute on me. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'm just saying there is too much Caster AoE stuns around, due to giving melee Caster AoE stuns, which is why that bear hits so hard. If more mobs were running around attacking, mobs wouldn't hit as hard. And you know I'm right, which is why you are trying this hacked defense.

[Chai]

Some of us really did leave the game because EE was too easy, and only returned recently to try out reaper.

Some forumites attempt to make it sound like this new thing they dont like will result in SWG-esque post NGE mass exodus.

While I have observed and do believe single individuals leave the game in a "take my ball and go home" fashion, I have yet to observe any mass exodus occurring due to any one change in the game. Often claimed theories of "if they did X everyone would quit" havent come true yet.

Also: Folks wouldnt accept elite being made tougher while threatening mass exodus, but now accept reaper as the new standard?
Wont stand for making it harder to solo for best XP per quest completion
Supports making it harder to solo for best XP per quest completion
/shrug.

[MaeveTuohy]

Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

There is a logical conclusion one can draw from this statement; I shall alert my Jedi friends, and you can expect a visit.

[nokowi]

This + you get to use the whole array of abilities that you have worked hard to have with your character

Except for stealth of course. Screw those guys/gals.

[Tilomere]

Except for stealth of course. Screw those guys/gals.

My stealth button works. No alert + devious.


I mean, it has failed a few times fairly spectacularly, but it *mostly* works at least some of the time. Heh.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Don't go all absolute on me. Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'm just saying there is too much Caster AoE stuns around, due to giving melee Caster AoE stuns, which is why that bear hits so hard. If more mobs were running around attacking, mobs wouldn't hit as hard. And you know I'm right, which is why you are trying this hacked defense.

The Pandemonium Soul Enraged Bear needs to hit a 240 prr melee for 4k because the presence of caster AoE stuns (and mass frog) on melee creates an environment where too much AoE CC/instant kills and damage are present in end game groups, and it basically never gets that hit off. Get the picture?

Kind of ironic for you to claim I'm the one dealing in absolutes when you have been claiming that endgame is simply everything CCed all the time and unable to get a hit off.

No champion buff protects against stun. Champions were designed when sorcs and wizards were destroying everything to primarily defend against arcanes, so they have FoM, deathward, mind blank vs. charms, and true seeing vs. displacement and invis.

They were introduced because the game in general had become easy AF. It wasn't just casters, tho they were extremely strong. Now with DPS so high I severely doubt they will be able to tone down the incoming damage of mobs without invalidating the entire endgame again. Which will continue to keep the need for melee to have some form of stun that they can apply, because otherwise they will be completely dependent on caster CC and they will continue to be massacred really fast without it.

[nokowi]

My stealth button works. No alert + devious.


I mean, it has failed a few times fairly spectacularly, but it *mostly* works at least some of the time. Heh.

When I respond to a post about being able to use all your abilities at endgame, and I mention stealth, I mean using stealth for tactical play. As I've described too many times already.

I am quite sure stealth mostly works for your play style, but you and I have very different interests.

Feel free to tell SSG and everyone on the forums how great you think their stealth design is, but please stop posting totally irrelevant things to what I am saying.

My vision of stealth is a vibrant, tactical based game where you make complex decisions about moving in and out of stealth, and pay dearly for mistakes. Your version, as you have described, seems to involve taking few risks and using repetitive and simplistic decisions - with the goal of trying to reduce completions times. Picking any FOTM build would accomplish this same goal without stealth at all, and your vision of stealth provides nothing new or unique to DDO.