First Look: U41 New Spells & Spell Changes

[Iriale]

You are right it will help some at level 30 but doesn't solve the issue. There are issues with the scaling by skull level at higher skulls and the limited spell point pool is still an issue for non-warlocks.

The main problem of reaper is that the penalty for casting is very severe with respect to weapons, but I do not think it is a problem that in high reaper the casters need help from the melees for the bosses, just as it is good that melees need casters help for the trash. High reaper should not be designed with the solo play in mind

Of course, the penalty for casting should not be greater than with weapons. And devs could put some SLA on the sorcerer trees that allows them sustained nuking. Niac's type spells for example.

[Livmo]

It would be great if they arty spell Tactical Detonation got a boost as well. Please and TY. Its a top tier arty spell in game, https://ddowiki.com/page/Tactical_Detonation

[capsela]

The main problem of reaper is that the penalty for casting is very severe with respect to weapons, but I do not think it is a problem that in high reaper the casters need help from the melees for the bosses, just as it is good that melees need casters help for the trash. High reaper should not be designed with the solo play in mind

Of course, the penalty for casting should not be greater than with weapons. And devs could put some SLA on the sorcerer trees that allows them sustained nuking. Niac's type spells for example.

When was the last time trash threatened anybody 2011? Melee and ranged easily solo mid reaper the same can't be said of casters without mana pots.

[Iriale]

When was the last time trash threatened anybody 2011? Melee and ranged easily solo mid reaper the same can't be said of casters without mana pots.

Much of the problem is that the reaper penalty penalizes disproportionately casters. Before starting to improve everything at op ends, devs need to check that reaper curve and see how the damage is then.

Anyway, from certain skulls the melees have it difficult without spell CC and the casters have it difficult without melee dps (sorc can easily nuke and cc). I see that right. High reaper should never be lowered to the point of being easily solo. But I agree that low reaper should be able to be solo for any class with a good build and well geared.

[bsquishwizzy]

The problem for caster IS mainly at lvl 29 30
U are not focusing on that

These changes are going to wrong directiion in my opinion

1)we need an Epic spell power multiplicator or anything similar
2) consider to remove Max caster lvl
3)revisit spell power reaper tree, now are useless
4) Revisit metamagic
5) REVISIT arcane epic destinies they are horrible


Actual changes are good only for heroic...
What IS the ssg aim with this rework? Doing more heroic past lives?

^ What he said.

I've been running wizzies in many forms nor for years. Non-instakill casters literally get hobbled in epic levels. Spells do not scale, and they become a blue-bar drain. Yeah, there was a S-M-A-L-L...S-M-A-L-L fix for this sometime back with the epic feats, but it didn't go far enough. And magister? Pffth! It's OK for DC casters (and it needs moar spell pen added), but for damage-dealers it sucks.


Lastly - let me reiterate that adding more ice / fire / acid / sonic / whatever damage spells aren't needed if you provide the advice given above. However, the fact that the Illusion line just sort of lingers out there being half-done is almost criminal. I have a second-life gnome Illusionist that I run - it is one of my FAVORITE characters to play. Between Color Spray and two PKs (if I decided to do Illusion in the AM tree), he's as fun as all get-out. But...it could be more and better than what it is now with a better variety of spells. Flesh out the Illusion line before you go off and add more evocation / conjuration spells - you have ENOUGH of them already.

[Paladin_of_Power]

however, the fact that the illusion line just sort of lingers out there being half-done is almost criminal. I have a second-life gnome illusionist that i run - it is one of my favorite characters to play. Between color spray and two pks (if i decided to do illusion in the am tree), he's as fun as all get-out. But...it could be more and better than what it is now with a better variety of spells. Flesh out the illusion line before you go off and add more evocation / conjuration spells - you have enough of them already.

this

[capsela]

The 1st lvl bolt spells move too slowly to be useful. Please increase the speed it's absurdly slow. Mobs move out of the way 70% of the time.

Is the PM necro slas affected by dice changes on necrotic ray?

[Tizian]

The 1st lvl bolt spells move too slowly to be useful. Please increase the speed it's absurdly slow. Mobs move out of the way 70% of the time.

Having tried these spells for the first time today, I can agree with the above - the spells seem only usable at point blank range or against immobile targets. I'd even worry about casting them at a target that's a bit further away and currently unmoving.. since there's plenty of time for the target to decide to move. The time spent casting them is probably the bigger loss than the wasted SP, however.
I can only assume Magic Missile is due a boost as currently it deals less damage for higher cost. Currently this could be justifiable somewhat by it always hitting its target but if the Bolts ever get higher speed, this "advantage" is reduced a lot.

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Buff to Fire Trap is cool for increasing its damage and at first glance I thought it might surpass Firewall (60 base damage for my level 8 wizard vs 15 per tick from the firewall at a 1/3rd of the sp cost sounds pretty great, right?), but unfortunately Fire Trap is still ruined by the 30 second cooldown.

Is Negative Energy Burst in line with the guidelines? As long as the spell is capable of hitting ones self (and, to a lesser extent, other friendly undead) I'd label it as a healing spell rather than a damage spell. Even if it also does damage, the healing effect could be considered an 'additional effect', no?

[janave]

The 1st lvl bolt spells move too slowly to be useful. Please increase the speed it's absurdly slow. Mobs move out of the way 70% of the time.

Agree here, after trying for a few weeks, it is nice to use as a long shot on static targets, but moving targets are really hard to hit, id be better off just waiting for electric loop coodown in most situations.

It would be nice if elemental Sorcerers could buy this as an SLA, maybe as a T2.

[SilentRunning]

Let me guess Capsela, you're rushing the targets, expecting to fire off the bolt and have it hit, and then when it doesn't do what you want it to do you, you cry that it's too slow. It's got an absurdly long range as it is, use them from a distance.

If you can't see the target then turn up your graphics some.

[Xgya]

Let me guess Capsela, you're rushing the targets, expecting to fire off the bolt and have it hit, and then when it doesn't do what you want it to do you, you cry that it's too slow. It's got an absurdly long range as it is, use them from a distance.

If you can't see the target then turn up your graphics some.

They changed the speed of Produce Flame because of complaints about the projectile speed.
The new projectiles are about as slow as old Produce Flame.

[capsela]

Let me guess Capsela, you're rushing the targets, expecting to fire off the bolt and have it hit, and then when it doesn't do what you want it to do you, you cry that it's too slow. It's got an absurdly long range as it is, use them from a distance.

If you can't see the target then turn up your graphics some.

The bolt spells are too slow. I said it 4 months ago. Others agree.

I use magic missle spells instead of the bolt spells because they hit their target no matter what.

Magic missle shows that the Devs can program a spell so that it hits its target.

Why even add a new spell that doesn't even hit a mob if that mob moves? Do any mobs stay still? No that's the definition of mob. "The term "mob" is short for "mobile"

Mobs are mobile, they move out of the way of slow moving projectiles.

citation added
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mob_(gaming)

[Montegue]

All bolt and ray spells should function at Beholder eye beam speed.

[Eryhn]

generally I feel the problem with ray spells is not really that they are too slow but rather that the AI movement and server reaction is too borked and sluggish at times to make them hit properly. going by the animation speed it should hit with the positioning I choose when casting but then sometimes it doesn't. So in other words, with the slower rays you just happen to notice a general server induced caster problem more clearly.



is what Id say IF i were to call this a *problem*, which, well, idk, not soo much rly.


the fact that you get double range on rays indicates pretty clearly that they can and maybe should be used with some thought. this has already been mentioned above anyways.

open with them from a distance and the first few ones will hit, all the more as the melee mobs dumbly beeline for you after the first spell hits.
if not used like that but as part of rotation regularly, CC before goin into dmg rotation. solved.

[janave]

generally I feel the problem with ray spells is not really that they are too slow but rather that the AI movement and server reaction is too borked and sluggish at times to make them hit properly. going by the animation speed it should hit with the positioning I choose when casting but then sometimes it doesn't. So in other words, with the slower rays you just happen to notice a general server induced caster problem more clearly.



is what Id say IF i were to call this a *problem*, which, well, idk, not soo much rly.


the fact that you get double range on rays indicates pretty clearly that they can and maybe should be used with some thought. this has already been mentioned above anyways.

open with them from a distance and the first few ones will hit, all the more as the melee mobs dumbly beeline for you after the first spell hits.
if not used like that but as part of rotation regularly, CC before goin into dmg rotation. solved.

Seems counter intuitive given the idea was a low level "spammable" spell, which is the polar opposite to "having to use it with tohught"

Since they are primarily a sorcerer helper, thats also fairly counter loreish, coz they dont need INT to spell cast, they "just do it".

[dunklezhan]

The new L9 spells - finally got to play with them. Or at least with 2 of them.

I've used Iceberg and Acid Well, 18/2 wiz rogue, not a nuke specialist although I do have max and empower so that when I nuke it at least mostly works (and for the purposes of my comments below, both were in use). My ice and acid spellpowers are identical and my evocation / conj DCs also identical on this build. I play on HE as a rule.

Acid Well - fantastic, great, feels like a L9 spell just went off. The look is a bit meh but I mean... its a bit splash of acid. Its hard to make that look exciting. The numbers I see are what is exciting

Most stuff in the AOE at this level just dies from massive overdamage and what's left doesn't take long to mop up. Exactly what I want from a L9 spell. Worth making another Earth Sorc just for the lols.

I don't want Acid Well nerfing or its SP cost improving because I reallt feel it is just right considering we're talking the supposedly top end arcane power of a L9 spell. This spell is what you should be balancing the other two around, its great.


Iceberg - disappointingly underwhelming. It seems to do the same or less in terms of damage compared to Acid Well but only to a single target and for the same SP cost. It also looks like the chunks if ice just got lifted from Ice Storm, with maybe one head-sized boulder landing. underwhelming. I was really hoping for a LARGE piece of ice to drop. Something in the region of a Giant's torso or bigger. Like... SLAM, you're dead, everyone is stood around open mouthed at the house sized block of ice that just landed. But this is less "iceberg" and more 'some snow fell off your roof, brr'.

It is basically not worth taking this spell simply because Acid Well is available - I would imagine its super great against red dragon and fire giant bosses of course, but it doesn't feel like it should be the same SP cost at all. I would just never take this unless I knew I was going up against the aforementioned large firey bosses.

Its +27 per level instead of +18 so you'd think that would make an obvious difference when a L18 wizard cast is but actually... no. On my build, Acid Well was hitting for 1.2k with saves, 3k no saves and around 6K for crits… Iceberg was doing more or less the same about the same - maybe marginally higher but not 'awwww yeah, concentrated cosmic power' in comparison to acid well, which is where I feel it should be. Level 9 magic!!

Given what Acid Well was putting out I was expecting Iceberg to be clearly more damage - e.g. 2K+ no save, 4K with saves and 8K on crits.

Appreciate that the exact numbers are going to have wide variance based on build and gear. All I can say is that Acid Well feels like what I expected but iceberg feels seriously underwhelming both in terms of look, damage, and SP cost.

[dunklezhan]

The 1st lvl bolt spells move too slowly to be useful. Please increase the speed it's absurdly slow. Mobs move out of the way 70% of the time.

These spells are absolutely fantastic in a group, because all the mobs are clustered over there so they aren't moving around. If you're solo and you want to use these spells... yeah very close range or do the Olden Days ranger kite thing to get the mob chasing you in a straight line.

[janave]

These spells are absolutely fantastic in a group, because all the mobs are clustered over there so they aren't moving around. If you're solo and you want to use these spells... yeah very close range or do the Olden Days ranger kite thing to get the mob chasing you in a straight line.

Counter the original design, as per OP was supposed to be a long range spammable spell, makes little sense that it works best at point blank due to its very low travel speed.

[Paladin_of_Power]

I would like to see this re visited for divine casters as spamming nuker spells for cleric and favored souls is painfully slow way to kill a mob, and mainly just a drain on my spell point bar.

And yes Improving more necrotic spells for wizard necromancers would be nice.

[dunklezhan]

Counter the original design, as per OP was supposed to be a long range spammable spell, makes little sense that it works best at point blank due to its very low travel speed.

Agreed. Was describing how it was good, not claiming it was ideal. Its a good long range way to start a fight too. But as soon as those mobs start moving yeah... useless as a long range 'spammable'. I mean it is spammable, sort of, bit of a slow cooldown if you ask me. And it is long range, but slow. So on both counts it needs polish.