First Look: U41 New Spells & Spell Changes

[Iriale]

Disrupt Undead falls under the Necromancy spells I talked about in the FAQ. We'll likely take a look at it when we get to Pale Master.

Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting both deal Bane damage; see the notes about that damage type above with regards to Ruin. We do not intend to escalate their damage to match the other spells due to their energy type.

Shout is one we've gone back and forth on a number of times internally. We're unlikely to change it for U41, but we might in the future.

Horrid Wilting does so little damage that does not matter if the type of damage is untyped. It is an absolutely useless spell at the level at which it is achieved and never used. His damage should be checked not to set it to the standard of the other spells, but to make it usable. As Psyco has said, it is a devastating spell in the hands of the npcs and absolutely useless in the hands of the pcs. It is not even useful against plant mobs, against which it should be devastating. Maybe there is something wrong/bugged with this spell, because seriously it is very very bad. Can you check it, please?

Disintegrate is useful at the level at which it is achieved, but the fact that it needs a fort ST makes it quickly become obsolete in heroic high and especially in epics. Transmutation is a secondary school in DDO, normally people have much higher the DC of their primary school, which is always necromancy, or evocation, or enchantment, but never transmutation (too few transmutations spells) I'm ok with do not touch the damage of disintegrate, but could you add some transmutation DC more in the trees? It is also that Disintegrate does not scale well in epics, although that happens with many spells, so that is other problem.

[Talam]

A question about Horrid Wilting is are you going to actually make the plant mobs in Necro Slayer/Kings Forest actually able to be damaged by this spell? I admit I haven't looked at it in ages but when Motu was released it was noted as a bug and I've never seen any mention of changes to it. I don't have a high enough level Wizard to check that just yet but since your looking at spells I wondered if that might be worth your time to check why they would be immune to it's damage when from the way the spell is written it appears to be tailor made to combat them.

Second question is there a reason the level 9 Acid spell has a lower damage number from the Ice/Electric spells? It seems odd since you folks were trying to level the playing field that you would make the damage modifier different for one element given the intent of this pass.

I believe Acid Well is intended to be an AOE, thus lower individual dmg.

[Iriale]

New Wizard and Sorcerer spells are now available at level 1: Fire Bolt, Freezing Bolt, Acid Bolt, and Electric Bolt. Each fires a single-target bolt that does 1d6+2 damage of the appropriate element per Caster Level, to a maximum Caster Level of 10. These new spells cost 2 spell points each at their base, and have a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 seconds for Sorcerers) shared among all four spells.

It does not make much sense that they share cooldown. If you want to do this, why do not you turn them into a single spell, with a Energy resistance or Hellball style multiselector? There was a spell like that in Dragonlance 3.5 (level 2 instead of 1, but that does not matter) At least that gives consistency to share the cooldown. This game has too many exceptions from the rules and arbitrary decisions ... it is better to design in a way that does not confuse the new ones and without so many exceptions.

With a multi selector, you preserve the idea that the designers want and at the same time the global coherence of the rules

[Iriale]

And a question about a QoL change. Can you add in the portable hole spellbooks with all wizard spells, or at least several spellbooks, with all the spells of each level? Every time I make a wizard's life it is **** to have to inscribe all the spells one by one. The existence of spellbooks with many spells is something collected in the lore of D&D and would be a great QoL change for players. Of course, without the spells considered rare and not sold in stores

Extra points for you, devs, if spell component vendors order them by level and class instead of by name. Yes, it is another small thing that is unimportant but very annoying. A change like this would be as welcome as the new organization of the feats on the character sheet (great change, Lynn)

[Annex]

And a question about a QoL change. Can you add in the portable hole spellbooks with all wizard spells, or at least several spellbooks, with all the spells of each level? Every time I make a wizard's life it is **** to have to inscribe all the spells one by one. The existence of spellbooks with many spells is something collected in the lore of D&D and would be a great QoL change for players. Of course, without the spells considered rare and not sold in stores.

I would very much like Spell Books to persist through all forms of "Reincarnation".

[Arch-Necromancer]

NEW LEVEL 1 WIZ/SORC SPELLS

• Fire Bolt
• Freezing Bolt
• Acid Bolt
• Electric Bolt

(Fire Bolt is a real D&D spell - We've kept the naming convention over to the others to reflect their similar nature and make it easy to read.)


Each of these fires a single-target bolt that does 1d6+2 damage of the appropriate element per caster level, to a max caster level of 10. They cost 2SP each at their base and have a 4.5 second cooldown (3.5 on Sorcerers) shared among all four spells (so realistically, you can only use one right now). These exist in the Wizard and Sorcerer spellbooks, and can be taken at level up. Scrolls of these will be available at scroll shops.

There are a few goals with these spells:

• Provide a spammable low-level nuking spell for several arcane builds at a low SP cost
• Help low-level elemental/nuker casters have more options
• Help fill out long-range casting rotations (most of the low-level damage spells are touch range, and some characters aren't built to handle that without dying)

Why do you introduce new spells that do not exist in D&D (other element variations of Fire Bolt) when you can instead just make a D&D core spell: Chromatic Orb and do exactly the same thing that you want, even more flexible:

Chromatic Orb
1st-level evocation Casting Time 1 action
Range 90 feet
Components V S M (50gp diamond)
Duration Instantaneous

Make a ranged spell attack against a creature you can see. You choose the damage type: acid, cold, fire, lightning, poison, or thunder. If the attack hits, the creature takes 3d8 damage of the type you chose.

At Higher Levels: The damage increases by 1d8 for each slot above 1st.

Chromatic Orb could have a multiselector (like Fire Shield) to choose the element you want, and it would also include sonic and poison damage choices (that are missing in the bolt spell list).

[Delosari]

Before anything else I want to thank you for working in the magic system .

1) So regarding the current spell changes:

- I think it would make the discussion much more productive if you made it clear how much raw damage each spell point per spell level is expected to cause. That way, we, can tell you which dungeons/raids/heroic/epic content can be played by each class. Also it would make your life much easier if you define a clear/uniform goal for each spell level. Then we can discuss how each class is different.

- Regarding the spell damage type: Is it very hard to implement feats which give the player toggles to change the spell damage type?. Even if the visuals are not changed it would make your life much easier: Less spells to balance. Furthermore, even though a feat might be a high cost for druids or sorcerers it would improve their flexibility: Activate toggle to change the damage type of all your elemental spells to your favourite type. (I want to leave it very clear, though, I love having many spells

- It is hard for us to discuss the suitability of these modifications without knowing if you have in mind more changes for to meta-magic feats, spell critical damage boosts or magic items.

2) Any discussion regarding traditional casters brings the big magic game issue: Enemies have so much health (and there are no many before the boss) no amount of spell damage will make viable contributions given the limited spell points reservoirs. I think the more viable and easiest mechanic for you is implementing a "mega echoes of power". Something like 10sp per caster level max recharging. With faster recharge options for sorcerers/fvs and greater pools for wizards/clerics. Of course, the other option is depending on SLA but if these are focused in damage/healing these classes will loose flexibility which is one of their strong points.

3) Finally, I would like to encourage the discussion on traditional casters damage mitigation. You can see this issue very clear in the new raid. I would like to see more survival tools in these classes. Maybe the Killing time raid is still a bit broken but I can understand why players are imposing a 1200 hp minimum. I do not expect every class to shine in every new (or old) content but at least I expect them not to automatically die.

[FuryFlash]

[*]Iceberg

• (3.5 book Frostburn)
• Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
• Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
• 40 Spell Points

This spell makes absolutely no rational sense based on real world physics.

Icebergs are gigantic. An average specimen weighs 100,000 to 200,000 metric tons. In sheer dimensions, such an object dwarfs a single human being. Teleporting such an entity into the sky above a point and letting it fall would result in massive damage to a very large land area, not just a single person. Further, a frozen object arriving with significant velocity would not inflict any damage due to heat transfer, it would smash everything with a gigantic amount of kinetic energy. Finally, how does one summon an iceberg inside a dwelling or underground?

I suggest renaming this spell Absolute Zero.

Absolute Zero: A sorcerer or wizard casting this spell temporarily reduces the temperature around a single Large or smaller target to a point near absolute zero. Air within the affected region freezes, instantly precipitating to the ground to form a thin layer of water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen ice. The target creature, object, or person immediately suffers massive cold damage, 1d6+27 per Caster Level, as the sudden heat transfer draws all warmth from his or her body. A successful Reflex Saving Throw reduces this damage by half.

The affect of Absolute Zero lasts but a moment, after which the target area returns to the ambient temperature. The thin layer of air frozen by the spell now vaporizes, leaving the affected area shrouded in a wispy cloud of light fog that lasts but a minute or two and causes no additional affect. If a living target sustained mortal damage, he or she remains frozen, covered in a thin layer of hoarfrost.

Edit: In 1836, Central Illinois actually sustained a Sudden Freeze of such magnitude that a man froze to death where he stood!

Edit: Since energy and matter cease to exist at true Absolute Zero, I added the modifier, "to a point near", to better explain the effect of the spell.

Meteor swarm must really bother you :P

[Indubitably]

These changes seem to heavily benefit sorcerers.
Wizards benefit a bit on the lower level spectrum from the lvl1 spells... but thats about it.
Wizards have never really had the SP or SLAs that can make use of metamagics to do decent damage. This gets exaggerated in epics.

The level 1 spells will still fall behind late game (not intended to).
The level 9 spells will still be too costly for wizards to reliably use.
The spells inbetween, if used will be slightly better.. but ultimately still become redundant later in the game.

Wizard concerns were simple... "I do no damage in epic" and "If I can't CC/Instakill it... I'm worthless" making them thoroughly incapable of dealing with any kind of named boss.
I don't see how any of these concerns are addressed. Although I am glad I could possibly get away without having to swing a greatsword for the first few easy levels (although now we have a potentially ok EK tree...so...back to the sword I go).

Sorc on the other hand, specialise in an element, get lots of max caster levels (why are wizards the ONLY caster class not to get max caster levels?) and can make these spells worth it, and hae the SP pool to cast them.
More importantly though... is the SLAs.

Fire - Burning hands, Scorch, Fireball
Lightning - Shocking Grasp, Lightningbolt
Cold - Snowball Swarm
Acid - Acid Spray, Acid Blast

It will be jarring to have some SLAs significantly improved, whilst others have outdated damage. Things are not balanced with the trees, with fire getting all their SLAs improved (already capable of the most damage...albeit highly resisted). Any tree though can make full use of the new spell changes to their SLA for the entire of the game, complete with metamagics, for very cheap.

I have no problem with this... sorcereses are designed to be nukers. I would like to see this spell pass completed with other spells so we don't end up with SO MANY redundant spells.

But the wizards are still left wanting. They don't need to be as competent as a sorc, but their 2 main concerns need some kind of answer... and I'm still not seeing it.

[Indubitably]

The second point I would like to make.

Archmage

Please please please, can we have an answer to whether you intend to change this tree or not?
This is the THE wizard tree, this is the one most pure wizards that want to be wizards WANT to go. No ideals of melee, or being weird undead self-healing. Pure wizard, focused on a specialisation or two in particular. EK is great for the people that want wizard past lives but dont actually want to play a wizard, or want a really quirky build, and no lie... I will roll some. But people who love wizards want a proper caster tree.

I'm a little bored, and thematically put off by the fact that PALE MASTERS are the go-to tree for being a wizard of worth, even if you want to be a conjuror or enchanter!

> They have the best (only) self-healing if not warforged (reaper may have messed that a bit and made it a liability but I bet the PM pass will fix it to some degree).
> They have the best damage with 0.75 universal AND 0.75 negative and a spell that actually does decent damage for its SP cost (necrotic ray) SLAs are borked though (also to be fixed im sure next pass)
> They have the best DCs (Thanks Lich) for ALL schools at the same time, the main thing wizards care about.
> They have the only pet. (sorry conjurors)

Archmages get discounts to metamagics...which are too costly to use on any normal spell (or new/updated spell) and only 2 SLAs that are...average.
I'm hard pressed to think about anything else the archmage gets that special, other than maybe arcane supremacy and their school SLAs...

The school SLAs need a rework. Over half of them are insulting as cores. Dirt cheap buffs you cast once a rest, spells never used like grease, damage spells that dont make use metamagics (cloudkill, MM and CM are used for shadrii proc, by themselves they are useless).

Archmage needs to at least lower spell cooldown, spellpoint cost, and maybe casting speed of its choosen school(s). this would make it uniformally better at its school reduardless of being a DC or Damage build. And promote using spells of that school, in your schoolbook. Also bump up the SLAs usefulness with better / high level spells. Maybe reduce the number if needed for that to happen.

[Arcath]

[*]Iceberg

This spell makes absolutely no rational sense based on real world physics.

Ironic.

[Duhboy]

I'm sorry dev's, this change won't do anything to people like me who want to play a DPS caster in high reaper content.

Will only effect Heroic content in witch casters were already good.

Not upgrading dot, is also big mistake, as it's a big part of DPS caster kit when dealing with red named/orange/boss.

My2cent

Burning Blood is still not being affected by metas and also did they lower Meteor Swarm damage die? Just wondering.

[Duhboy]

Hellball could do with a boost.

Its basically 4(3d20 + 15) compared to Acid Well 20(1d6+18) and that doesn't factor in lower spell power to 3 of the 4 elements.

#Agreed&signed

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

If we could apply spellpower to wands (and staffs) that would be huge -maybe at 50% or even 25% if full is too good?

Outstanding idea. Fully support this.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Shout is one we've gone back and forth on a number of times internally. We're unlikely to change it for U41, but we might in the future.

Desperately in need of new maths... And my bard Mississippee might just pay RL plat for it!!

[Selvera]

Well Lamania is up so I can comment on Sorc dps and how strapped they are for spell points these days.

Character transfer failed to transfer my character over 3 times; so I made do with a first life character and piecemeal gear I could find in the lootroom. Fairly suboptimal since I'm completely missing key items like the panasophic circlet, golden orb of death and almost any PRR item.

[Silverleafeon]

Desperately in need of new maths... And my bard Mississippee might just pay RL plat for it!!

+1 agree fully

[Silverleafeon]

Spells such as Ruin, Horrid Wilting, Disintegrate and more could become much more feasible without direct changes by simply adjusting the way DDO handles metamagics.


Imagine a world in which Maximize is no longer locked into the pre-Epic world of flat bonuses?

Imagine a world in which spellcasters can strongly consider using meta-magics on any spell just like fighters apply improved critical to certain weapons?

Imagine a world in which Maximize increase a spell by a total value of (+150*(30/20) ) = 225 spellpower and the cost of using thus is only a few or zero spellpoints?



Suddenly spellcasters look much more viable without even changing these spells directly!

Suddenly spellcasters using Ruin can apply metamagics without tremendous costs!

[Claver]

Iceberg and Thunderstroke share the same cool down


Acid Well does not have its range reduced by Knights Transformation from Eldritch Knight

[Selvera]

Spellcasters can juggle metamagics just fine; and maybe; just maybe; should have to think a little as to what spells to have metamagics and/or when to use metamagics. I'm not one; but I know those people who love to brag about their uber casters love to say that it's a high skill ceiling class/build/archytype.

And if my lil' melee mind can make a first life spellcaster who doesn't need pots, hirelings or shrines to solo quests on elite with metamagics on the whole time when they cost a hefty chunk of mana to keep on... Resource management is really not all that difficult now is it?

Now I've done a lot of complaining that the caster dps pass is being done wrong and all the reasons why I think it's going wrong. So how about I propose a way to do it right...

First let's identify the problems that casters are facing:

1) Many spells do not scale well into epic levels; and spells at epic levels are either underperforming (hellball) or long cooldown with not enough good options (Energy Burst). And spell damage doesn't spike as high/much as other archetypes in endgame gear vs at level 20.

2) Casting spells are finite; while you need to deal more and more effective damage as you go up in difficulties; especially in reaper (where you may need to deal up to 20x more damage due to how much your damage is reduced by).

3) Spellcasters that run out of spellpoints are effectively restricted to SLA casting and very cheap spells.

4) Some metamagics; namely maximize, empower and intensify, do not scale very well.

So here are some of my propositions to fix this.

1) Remove maximum caster level from most damaging spells, and adjust damage of some low level spells so that they don't scale quite so well. (For example Niac's could do 2d5+10 damage +1d2+2 per caster level.)

2) Adjust the following spells thus:
Shout: Deals 5d3+5 sonic damage +1 per caster level.
Greater Shout: 5d6 sonic damage +2 per caster level.
Acid Fog: Deals 2d6 acid damage +1 per caster level each tick.
Meteor Swarm: Each meteor deals 1d3+3 fire damage and 1d2+2 bludgeoning damage per 4 caster levels.
Burst of Glacial Wrath: Deals 1d6 cold damage per caster level
Arcane Pulse: Each 2 caster levels above 30 grant +1 damage.
Forced Escape: Deals 2d20 force damage per 3 caster levels.
Hellball: Each element deals 1d6+2 damage per 3 caster levels.
Spirit Blades: Each blade deals 1d3+3 piercing and 1d2+2 force damage per 2 caster levels
Ruin: Deal 16 damage per caster level.
Greater Ruin: Deal 33 damage per caster level.

3) Each 2 epic levels grant +1 caster level with all spells.

4) Maximize makes your spells as if you rolled maximum damage on each die. Empower gives +1 damage per die of damage. Intensify gives +50% crit damage. Empower and Intensify cost 12 spell points each, Maximize costs 16.

5) Make the draconic incarnation's draconic fury grant +50% spell critical damage in addition to the small amount of spellpower it currently gives.

6) Add in those bolt spells proposed, and the level 9 spells proposed. But lower their damage to 1d3+3 per caster level for the level 1 spells; and 1d6+8 per caster level for the level 9 single target spells; 1d6+5 per caster level for acid well.

7) In Dire Thaumaturge; make the last enhancement line multiselectors; either take the current "Reaper's Deep Magic" (+1 spell penetration) OR take the new "Reaper's Destruction Magic" which reduces the mana cost of damaging spells by 2% + 1% per skull at tier 1, and 1% + 0.5% per skull at each other tier; for a total of 36% reduced spell costs with maxed tree at cap level 10 skulls. Make this reduction also apply to the cost of metamagics applied to the spells.

8) Increase the universal spellpower offered in the Dire Thaumaturge by 50% (so 3 USP per point at low tiers, 6 at high tiers).

9) Make spell critical damage more common on gear; especially on endgame caster DPS loot.

10) Add a feat where if a mob passes their save against a spell which deals half damage on save; it deals 75% damage instead of half damage (although it can still be evaded).