First Look: U41 New Spells & Spell Changes

[HuneyMunster]

Ruin and Greater Ruin are fine as they are, even with these new spells in place.

• They do a stable, expected amount of damage without rolling dice.
• They deal Bane damage.
  
  • Bane Damage is not reduced by MRR.
  • Bane Damage is not reduced by any kind of absorption or resistance.
  • Bane Damage is reduced by almost nothing DDO-wide
  • No creatures in the game (...except Xy'zzy) are immune to Ruin and Greater Ruin's damage.
  • No creatures in the game heal from Bane Damage.
    
    • You do not need to make additional character investments to make this true.

While they might not have the highest potential damage output anymore, they are still an extremely reliable source of damage. And if you've built toward being an elemental nuker, we're comfortable saying that you can be better with that in most scenarios than you are with Ruin.

Hellball could do with a boost.

Its basically 4(3d20 + 15) compared to Acid Well 20(1d6+18) and that doesn't factor in lower spell power to 3 of the 4 elements.

[Aelonwy]

*snip*

Personally feel the spell point costs of these spells could be reduced.


Also would it be possible for Acid Well to be name changed to Acid Geyser?

[Aelonwy]

Hellball could do with a boost.

Its basically 4(3d20 + 15) compared to Acid Well 20(1d6+18) and that doesn't factor in lower spell power to 3 of the 4 elements.

Owing to the number of mobs that have evasion and high reflex saves, as well as mobs that are highly resistant or outright immune to one or more elements of damage, I personally have consigned this feat to my own list of -Not worth it-.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Owing to the number of mobs that have evasion and high reflex saves, as well as mobs that are highly resistant or outright immune to one or more elements of damage, I personally have consigned this feat to my own list of -Not worth it-.

likewise on my caster

[zyirius]

Owing to the number of mobs that have evasion and high reflex saves, as well as mobs that are highly resistant or outright immune to one or more elements of damage, I personally have consigned this feat to my own list of -Not worth it-.

Not saying Hellball is a particularly good spell, and it is pretty bugged, such as the extra cold damage on a successful save. But its few (and perhaps only) good points is that it cannot be evaded.

[LightBear]

How about a few new feats such as:

Star Power Ultra (or any other cool name you like)
Anti requisite: Maximize Spell
Passive
Increases universal Spell Power by (((150/20)*(Character Level)) + 25)
Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.


Star Power Extra (or any other cool name you like)
Anti requisite: Empower Spell
Passive
Increases universal Spell Power by (((75/20)*(Character Level)) + 12)
Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.

Star Power Quicken (or any other cool name you like)
Requisite: Star Power Ultra & Star Power Extra
Passive
Applies quicken to all spells for free
Spells will cost 0 more spell points while this feat is taken.


One of your big problems is that metamagics are only free for SLAs; metas cost too much, and metas don't scale at all.

How about...
Feat - Reach for the Stars
Your spells can't be saved or broken
Cost 10sp

Or

Feat - Skeeting Star
Your spells are cast instantly, no cool down.
Cost 10sp

Or

Feat - Riches for rags
For the next 60 seconds your spells base casting costs are set to zero. (meta not included)
Cool down 60 seconds.
Cost 100sp

Or
Feat - Lift above your weight
For the next 30 seconds the cl and mcl of your spells are raised by twice your character level
Cool down 60 seconds
Cost to activate 10sp per character level
(Multi selector to cast at lower level possible but never above your level, so a level 10 character can set it to 10 or lower but not to 11 or higher while a level 30 character can raise the bar all the way to 30.)

[Thar]

I would admit that I would like to have seen them modify the Eladar's Electric Surge, Niac's Biting Cold and Black Dragon Bolt to have stacks that work like Arcane Pulse in that the timer removes one stack at a time instead of just canceling all stacks. Keeping the heroic spells to 3 stacks maximum.

I second the motion... good idea as they are not cheap to cast so it's worthy of the bump in damage.

[LurkingVeteran]

I'll just update what I said in general discussion.

Some changes are great:

• Boosting single-target damage spells (although not all) to be 2x damage, that will help balancing a lot.
• Fleshing out some specs in low level ranges are also great, finally a low-level caster may not have to swing a greatsword (don't forget to update the default builds).
• This also addressed at least low-level sp efficiency. I really liked that you went with cheap nuke instead of another clunky DoT.
• New spells!

However, the narrow scope of the pass has some potential problems:

1. SP efficiency is still bad in epic reaper. The L1 bolts do not scale well.
2. Since max caster level does not scale much (except Meteor), by taking this approach you will have a difficult trade-off between overpowering heroics/non-reaper performance, to end-game/high-reaper. You created a power peak between L16-21, when dwindling end-game performance was the problem. It got you half-way there but at the risk of trivializing some content.
3. By only improving a few select arcane spells you will reduce versatility. I don't know if this list will be expanded, but what would be the point of casting say black dragon bolt, shout, horrid wilting etc. Iconic spells like Wall of Fire are still useless in end-game.
4. Bard/Druid/FvS nukers risks falling behind since their base damages weren't touched. Only Word of Balance can really compete on the base damage. Once arcane enhancements are brought up to par, there will be a >100% gap in damage. Lack of armor/healing counts for something, but it shouldn't be that much, so you will have to update their spells too eventually.

Higher level spells do have longer cooldowns in DDO, so higher base damage makes sense. The existing damage was set by WotC based on a bunch of factors however, seems like potentially a lot of work to reinvent this. Just raising MCL and meta magic boosts would circumvent this problem.

Conclusion & Suggestions:

• Raise max caster level, at least for the patched spells, ideally to all spells. Just putting blanket passive +2-3 MCL on the meta magic feats would solve a lot of problems. This will give progression into epics while not hurting inter-spell balance.
• For end-game reaper sustainability, either lower bolt spell cooldown (with the MCL boost), or standardize low-level single target spells (e.g. scorching ray, MM) according to your formula above.
• Address general viability of nuking in epic/legendary, where the power is really needed. E.g. via cheaper and multiplicative meta-magic (+0.5, +0.25, and maybe +0.5 for intensify), perhaps in combination with MCL/crit mult gearing in epic+. Maybe revisit lost soul SP mechanic.

TL;DR: Just making meta magic feats multiplicative and giving them passive +2-3 MCL, in addition to fixing scaling of some low-level spells, would have solved all problems. The proposed changes may be a short-term improvement for arcanes, but they are a balance problem in the making across level ranges, classes and individual spells.

[LightBear]

How about:
Feat - Prodigy Pottery
You are able to alter the shape of your spells
Ray, cone, rod, blast, cloud, chain, wall, missiles or rain multi selector
Cost depend on shape

Or

Feat - Ivory Tower
You are able to stack your spells causing you to cast your spells in multiples at the same time.
Depending on how many times this feat is taken *3
Base cost of spells is multiplied in the same way

Or

Feat - Twisting Twinkle
You are able to combine your spells.
Creates a new page in your spellbook where you can draft two spells on each other (kinda like the left hand and right hand selector but instead of hand held items it is for two spells)
You can memorize that new spell.
New spell has stacked base sp cost of those two spells combined

[Ultramaetche1]

Disrupt Undead (lvl 1) should go to 1d6+2 / caster lvl
Shout (lvl 4) should go to 1d6+4 / caster lvl
Disintegrate (lvl6) should go to 1d6+12 / caster lvl (also, how the hell did you miss this one? It's an iconic Nuke spell in PnP)
Horrid Wilting (lvl 8) should go to 1d6+8 / caster lvl

[Steelstar]

What are cooldowns for those new spells?

The cooldowns are meant to be identical to Meteor Swarm: 6.5 seconds for Wizards, 3.5 seconds for Sorcerers.

That said, it doesn't look like those values are correct on Lamannia right now. We'll have that fixed for Preview 2.

[Steelstar]

Disrupt Undead (lvl 1) should go to 1d6+2 / caster lvl
Shout (lvl 4) should go to 1d6+4 / caster lvl
Disintegrate (lvl6) should go to 1d6+12 / caster lvl (also, how the hell did you miss this one? It's an iconic Nuke spell in PnP)
Horrid Wilting (lvl 8) should go to 1d6+8 / caster lvl

Disrupt Undead falls under the Necromancy spells I talked about in the FAQ. We'll likely take a look at it when we get to Pale Master.

Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting both deal Bane damage; see the notes about that damage type above with regards to Ruin. We do not intend to escalate their damage to match the other spells due to their energy type.

Shout is one we've gone back and forth on a number of times internally. We're unlikely to change it for U41, but we might in the future.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

Shout is one we've gone back and forth on a number of times internally. We're unlikely to change it for U41, but we might in the future.

It would help my bard =p

do it do it!

[Annex]

[*]Iceberg

• (3.5 book Frostburn)
• Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
• Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
• 40 Spell Points

This spell makes absolutely no rational sense based on real world physics.

Icebergs are gigantic. An average specimen weighs 100,000 to 200,000 metric tons. In sheer dimensions, such an object dwarfs a single human being. Teleporting such an entity into the sky above a point and letting it fall would result in massive damage to a very large land area, not just a single person. Further, a frozen object arriving with significant velocity would not inflict any damage due to heat transfer, it would smash everything with a gigantic amount of kinetic energy. Finally, how does one summon an iceberg inside a dwelling or underground?

I suggest renaming this spell Absolute Zero.

Absolute Zero: A sorcerer or wizard casting this spell temporarily reduces the temperature around a single Large or smaller target to a point near absolute zero. Air within the affected region freezes, instantly precipitating to the ground to form a thin layer of water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen ice. The target creature, object, or person immediately suffers massive cold damage, 1d6+27 per Caster Level, as the sudden heat transfer draws all warmth from his or her body. A successful Reflex Saving Throw reduces this damage by half.

The affect of Absolute Zero lasts but a moment, after which the target area returns to the ambient temperature. The thin layer of air frozen by the spell now vaporizes, leaving the affected area shrouded in a wispy cloud of light fog that lasts but a minute or two and causes no additional affect. If a living target sustained mortal damage, he or she remains frozen, covered in a thin layer of hoarfrost.

Edit: In 1836, Central Illinois actually sustained a Sudden Freeze of such magnitude that a man froze to death where he stood!

Edit: Since energy and matter cease to exist at true Absolute Zero, I added the modifier, "to a point near", to better explain the effect of the spell.

[Aelonwy]

Not saying Hellball is a particularly good spell, and it is pretty bugged, such as the extra cold damage on a successful save. But its few (and perhaps only) good points is that it cannot be evaded.

Even if evasion is not applicable things seemed to save quite frequently in the past. And the description on wiki indicates :Successful Reflex saving throws may negate each type of damage. When I last used this spell, ~2yrs ago it didn't seem particularly useful especially for the spell point cost.

[Annex]

After reading Silverleafawn's posts I am intrigued about her ideas for reducing Spell Point Costs associated with Meta-Magic Feats. One of the things I most dislike about DDO is how Wizards are forced into using Spell Like Abilities above level 20. At the levels were a Wizard should really take off they instead become hopelessly constrained by Spell Point Costs. I want to play a Wizard, not a Spell Point Accountant.

Perhaps the L20 Core on Arch-Wizard could slash all Meta-Magic Feats by half. Then add two new Epic Feats to further reduce costs to 25% and then 10%. I have no idea how that would affect Wizards in the current Power Curve Paradigm but it would sure make them more fun to play in Epic Levels.

[Blase]

Did some testing. My general impression is favorable, although I would recommend taking the level 1 nukes off the shared cooldown.

[Sam-u-r-eye]

[*]Iceberg

• (3.5 book Frostburn)
• Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
• Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
• 40 Spell Points

This spell makes absolutely no rational sense based on real world physics.

Icebergs are gigantic. An average specimen weighs 100,000 to 200,000 metric tons. In sheer dimensions, such an object dwarfs a single human being. Teleporting such an entity into the sky above a point and letting it fall would result in massive damage to a very large land area, not just a single person. Further, a frozen object arriving with significant velocity would not inflict any damage due to heat transfer, it would smash everything with a gigantic amount of kinetic energy. Finally, how does one summon an iceberg inside a dwelling or underground?

I suggest renaming this spell Absolute Zero.

Absolute Zero: A sorcerer or wizard casting this spell temporarily reduces the temperature around a single Large or smaller target to absolute zero. Air within the affected region freezes, instantly precipitating to the ground to form a thin layer of water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen ice. The target creature, object, or person immediately suffers massive cold damage, 1d6+27 per Caster Level, as the sudden heat transfer draws all warmth from his or her body. A successful Reflex Saving Throw reduces this damage by half.

The affect of Absolute Zero lasts but a moment, after which the target area returns to the ambient temperature. The thin layer of air frozen by the spell now vaporizes, leaving the affected area shrouded in a wispy cloud of light fog that lasts but a minute or two and causes no additional affect. If a living target sustained mortal damage, he or she remains frozen, covered in a thin layer of hoarfrost.

Edit: In 1836, Central Illinois actually sustained a Sudden Freeze of such magnitude that a man froze to death where he stood!

+1

[losian2]

[*]Iceberg

• (3.5 book Frostburn)
• Drop a big ol' iceball on your target
• Single Target Evocation Spell: 1d6+27 per Caster Level, Reflex Save for Half Damage. Max Caster Level 20.
• 40 Spell Points

This spell makes absolutely no rational sense based on real world physics.

Icebergs are gigantic. An average specimen weighs 100,000 to 200,000 metric tons. In sheer dimensions, such an object dwarfs a single human being. Teleporting such an entity into the sky above a point and letting it fall would result in massive damage to a very large land area, not just a single person. Further, a frozen object arriving with significant velocity would not inflict any damage due to heat transfer, it would smash everything with a gigantic amount of kinetic energy. Finally, how does one summon an iceberg inside a dwelling or underground?

I suggest renaming this spell Absolute Zero.

Absolute Zero: A sorcerer or wizard casting this spell temporarily reduces the temperature around a single Large or smaller target to absolute zero. Air within the affected region freezes, instantly precipitating to the ground to form a thin layer of water, carbon dioxide, and nitrogen ice. The target creature, object, or person immediately suffers massive cold damage, 1d6+27 per Caster Level, as the sudden heat transfer draws all warmth from his or her body. A successful Reflex Saving Throw reduces this damage by half.

The affect of Absolute Zero lasts but a moment, after which the target area returns to the ambient temperature. The thin layer of air frozen by the spell now vaporizes, leaving the affected area shrouded in a wispy cloud of light fog that lasts but a minute or two and causes no additional affect. If a living target sustained mortal damage, he or she remains frozen, covered in a thin layer of hoarfrost.

Edit: In 1836, Central Illinois actually sustained a Sudden Freeze of such magnitude that a man froze to death where he stood!

Luckily, this is a magical world and not a world based on real-life physics! I think Iceberg is cooler (lol) personally.. and, if we're playing the "physics" card, wouldn't something being forced _all the way_ to absolute zero pretty much instantly kill anything ever no matter what? We're not even sure physics work at that temperature and have only approached it.

It works the same as cometfall, entangle, and any other number of magical effects - magically. It's also pretty clear, aside from the literal size of "real" icebergs, that the spell intends to convey "large ice hits target." Frost Lance does not fire lances, fireballs are not perfectly round, earthquakes are small and localized in a tiny area, etc. etc.

But arguing the "logics" of this is silly, because here's what occurs to me - some wooshy ice effect sounds boring, a huge icy slam from above sounds awesome and, I'm assuming, they already made a spell effect for the latter, so.

[WanderingGrump]

Disrupt Undead falls under the Necromancy spells I talked about in the FAQ. We'll likely take a look at it when we get to Pale Master.

Disintegrate and Horrid Wilting both deal Bane damage; see the notes about that damage type above with regards to Ruin. We do not intend to escalate their damage to match the other spells due to their energy type.

Shout is one we've gone back and forth on a number of times internally. We're unlikely to change it for U41, but we might in the future.

A question about Horrid Wilting is are you going to actually make the plant mobs in Necro Slayer/Kings Forest actually able to be damaged by this spell? I admit I haven't looked at it in ages but when Motu was released it was noted as a bug and I've never seen any mention of changes to it. I don't have a high enough level Wizard to check that just yet but since your looking at spells I wondered if that might be worth your time to check why they would be immune to it's damage when from the way the spell is written it appears to be tailor made to combat them.

Second question is there a reason the level 9 Acid spell has a lower damage number from the Ice/Electric spells? It seems odd since you folks were trying to level the playing field that you would make the damage modifier different for one element given the intent of this pass.