Downtime Notice: Tuesday, October 30th 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT)

[Cordovan]

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Tuesday, October 30th from 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 40 Patch 2. Click here for the Release Notes. Thank you for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

[Nubom70]

The DDO game worlds will be unavailable on Tuesday, October 30th from 9:00 AM - 1:00 PM Eastern (-4 GMT) to release Update 40 Patch 2. Click here for the Release Notes. Thank you for your patience, and we'll see you back in the game soon!

"Fixed an issue where handwrap users who received extra dice through any means were .5[W] lower in total than they should have been."

.... Close, they're actually missing 3(w), because the HEROIC core class 2.5(w) you removed has zero to do with balancing an EPIC monk (which
was their problem we guess, but noone has replied with rational feedback, aside from "we're looking at it". Once.)

Are they going to restore the core class ability at some point, and just tweak the one weapon they were panicing over, or are heroic monks permanently screwed?
We used to have monks in our heroic group list, now we have ZERO. Every one rerolled into other classes, mainly barbarians, double-V ranger builds, and bear druids.

[Zites]

Heroic monks are the easiest to level event easier than warlock! Don't believe the hype monks are still meta!

[Nubom70]

Heroic monks are the easiest to level event easier than warlock! Don't believe the hype monks are still meta!

Poor troll attempt. But at least you tried. )

[Zites]

Poor troll attempt. But at least you tried. )

Not attempting to toll what so ever just disagree with your opinion based on the facts Iv seen in game.

[blerkington]

Glad to see a fix for AA imbues.

Not sure widening the types of creatures assassination works on was a good idea at all though. It's certainly going to help my main but it adds way too much power to that ability. Not just a bit too much, but waaaaay too much. Expect nerf threads and demands for other instakill abilities to be improved to a similar standard.

If it's because assassination and falconry use the same code, please consider splitting the two abilities and leaving assassination as it is. Then fix stealth, please and thank you.

[Nubom70]

It's not an opinion, People have been testing this since the change. Barbarians have such a huge damage lead on monks now, it's a joke, and even druids keep pace with no effort.
Even with basic testing, my 10 barbarian far outdamages our 17 completionist monk, and our double-V ranger is so over the monks DPS on a boss he may as well stay home.

Going from 3.5(w) base at 20 to 1(w), is a 71.4% drop in base damage. If you did that to any other class, people would burn the forums down.
Why are people even remotely OK with killing heroic damage to solve an endgame DPS issue with one set of wraps, instead of fixing the wraps?

[losian2]

It's not an opinion, People have been testing this since the change. Barbarians have such a huge damage lead on monks now, it's a joke, and even druids keep pace with no effort.
Even with basic testing, my 10 barbarian far outdamages our 17 completionist monk, and our double-V ranger is so over the monks DPS on a boss he may as well stay home.

Going from 3.5(w) base at 20 to 1(w), is a 71.4% drop in base damage. If you did that to any other class, people would burn the forums down.
Why are people even remotely OK with killing heroic damage to solve an endgame DPS issue with one set of wraps, instead of fixing the wraps?

You've done a great job encapsulating why this monk thing is a non-issue yourself right here..

"Going from 3.5(w) base at 20 to 1(w), is a 71.4% drop in base damage."

EVERY SINGLE class in the game is at 1(W) at 20 in essence. Most Ws come from weapons and gear and enhancements and such. Monk had, ON TOP OF THAT, a big fat 3W more. Stop trying to complain and get that back, that is *NOT* how you address this from a game design perspective. If there is a balance discrepency it needs to be addressed with *itemization*, not baked into the heroic levels in a way that makes balancing near impossible across the board and when itemizing in the future. This horse is so long dead it's probably hanging out with Jacoby Drexelhand by now.

The only reason monk every had the Ws was beacuse handwraps *previously* could not have the added W's, now they do. They are like other weapons. Other classes do not have 3W baked in for every weapon, because that isn't how the game is balanced, ergo monk will now be balanced the same.

[Yamani]

Going from 3.5(w) base at 20 to 1(w), is a 71.4% drop in base damage. If you did that to any other class, people would burn the forums down.
Why are people even remotely OK with killing heroic damage to solve an endgame DPS issue with one set of wraps, instead of fixing the wraps?

Lol, this is true and also 100% wrong. It is only true if you're not using a weapon at all, your damage stat is at a 0 modifier, no AP spent at all in the monk tree's/possibly other tree's too.

[zaidm271981]

Usually I stay quiet on forums, but this decision to buff assassinates on rogues is appalling to say the least, they are already vastly OP and its utterly ridiculous that they get further buffs to assassinate. Are you trying to ruin the game??? Are you trying to get non-rogues to quit? Theyve been mollycoddled with each passing update while monks have continually been nerfed.....utter ****. So disappointed with the lack of fairness in this game and im sure people are going to quit this cluster....

[Mellkor]

Usually I stay quiet on forums, but this decision to buff assassinates on rogues is appalling to say the least, they are already vastly OP and its utterly ridiculous that they get further buffs to assassinate. Are you trying to ruin the game??? Are you trying to get non-rogues to quit? Theyve been mollycoddled with each passing update while monks have continually been nerfed.....utter ****. So disappointed with the lack of fairness in this game and im sure people are going to quit this cluster....

It is painfully obvious you have not played an assassin. Please go play one and then post your opinions based on actual game play.

I played assassins as my mains for many years then stopped playing them because of the assassinate/stealth issues. Yes stealth issues remain the root cause of the assassinate issues. However, this is a very good change IMO, especially when you consider how much easier and much more often other insta killing classes can insta kill.

Even with this change, assassins are still way behind when it comes to kills per minute compared to other insta killing classes.

-JR

[Nubom70]

Lol, this is true and also 100% wrong. It is only true if you're not using a weapon at all, your damage stat is at a 0 modifier, no AP spent at all in the monk tree's/possibly other tree's too.

I specifically said base damage to prove a point, I know this changes with skills, gear, etc. No other class has ever taken a direct shot to base damage that hard, and to do that in heroic to fix an
epic issue, is really poor game management. With gear and skills etc, it's around a 25% hit in heroics, and around 10-15% at cap, depending on what numbers people have parsed and posted.

[blerkington]

However, this is a very good change IMO, especially when you consider how much easier and much more often other insta killing classes can insta kill.

Even with this change, assassins are still way behind when it comes to kills per minute compared to other insta killing classes.

-JR

That's interesting.

My difficulty with this is assassins can currently produce very high DPS and have an effective instakill. They have other weaknesses (some of which monks don't) to offset those things, but being able to do both very good DPS and reliably instakill targets is a very powerful combination.

It will be interesting to see what other people think about this issue, especially those playing hard content at endgame on very well geared characters with many past lives and/or reaper points. I don't think assassins that only build for DCs are especially useful in harder endgame content, but a serious tradeoff between DCs and DPS is not currently required by the game.

Thanks.

[MichelOue]

[QUOTE=Cordovan;6150681]The DDO game worlds will be on Tuesday, October 30th …

New content???? when? when when? Oh **** the kings forest does not offer pack purchase in (ingame) store.

Basics basics should be easy fix no?

[Yamani]

I specifically said base damage to prove a point, I know this changes with skills, gear, etc. No other class has ever taken a direct shot to base damage that hard, and to do that in heroic to fix an
epic issue, is really poor game management. With gear and skills etc, it's around a 25% hit in heroics, and around 10-15% at cap, depending on what numbers people have parsed and posted.

Actually its less then 10% in heroics using the most optimal handwraps (cannith/ravenloft/trials of archon), it only goes above 10% around 18-20 when there really isnt a handwrap using the new system post trials of the archon wraps. I posted the math + wraps used in another thread somewhere if you really feel like seeing the difference yourself.

[Mellkor]

That's interesting.

My difficulty with this is assassins can currently produce very high DPS and have an effective instakill. They have other weaknesses (some of which monks don't) to offset those things, but being able to do both very good DPS and reliably instakill targets is a very powerful combination.

It will be interesting to see what other people think about this issue, especially those playing hard content at endgame on very well geared characters with many past lives and/or reaper points. I don't think assassins that only build for DCs are especially useful in harder endgame content, but a serious tradeoff between DCs and DPS is not currently required by the game.

Thanks.

I think this simple change will bring assassins more in line with how they used to play. It seems like they can not (or will not) fix stealth, so this will set things right, at least a little bit, IMO. I will dust off my assassin and give it a go and see how it plays. As for the rest of it, Assassins are still very weak front line combatants. So having high DPS with an insta kill every 20 seconds seems OK to me. The classic assassin game play will not change much with this, you still have to be sneaky and avoid face to face combat to survive, at least in the higher difficulties that I usually play. I would even advocate dropping the 20 second assassinate cool down time to something like 10 seconds. It still will be hard to survive at the higher difficulties with all the cleaves and such going on at the front lines of encounters. The classic sneaky assassin going after the stragglers such as archers and casters will be possible again. Stealth changes pretty much ruined this kind of game play. I am now looking forward to it again, if this change works.

Don't get me wrong, I prefer having the challenge of skillfully sneaking up to a target unseen and stabbing them in the back for a clean, unseen kill and then getting away undetected and on to the next target. Without fixing stealth issues, It seems like with this change you can at least stab em and kill em even if they see you and aggro you. I would bet the stealth/aggo issues will still make the classic assassin type of game play difficult. Only now it wont be the target that gets you, it will be the entire area aggroing on you (basically the same as before this change, but now you at least get a kill out of it).

That said, Devs please fix stealth!

-JR

[Paisheng]

1. Has Death from Above been fixed regarding its DC success rate? Many users including myself noticed a huge change after the last update that opponents were almost always successfully saving against death. I was getting about a 1/20 success rate where prior it was more like 15/20. I have a completionist wisdom based monk, so it should have a very successful dc.

I don't see this specifically addressed in the update notes can hoping a dev can comment on it if they determined what had changed.



2. Regarding the potential derailment of this thread into Angry Monks (like Angry Birds) concerning the last update reduction of 2.5 W. from handwrap monks: I am not neutral on the position (I in fact find the nerf has made my monk perform less dps than several other classes and builds now) I actually only want to say that I have seen a lot less monks now at least on Thelanis, and those I find are still feeling the pain and grumbling -- in part because of the nerf and in part because it came from class core. Other melees have superior dps enhancements like kensai, barbarian or vistani (which I am running in this life), so the unarmed (hand wrap) monk I believe needed that extra W to stay DPS competitive with other top melees.

But the real point I wanted to make was that I fear a lot of other threads may be hijacked if it crosses the subject in any loose means of the Angry Monks. It is better, my monk friends to perhaps start a fresh thread, poll players since the change, and write arguments in the Monk forum or General forum. While in great empathy with you, it is bad protocol to derail threads that have little to do with our concerns. No changes in this update in particular are about Monk/ class DPS, so lets address the notes and the subjects they bring up.

[Saekee]

So out of the blue you are buffing assassinate? There was no thread discussing this with us—it seems plopped out of nowhere.

I have no idea what to make of it. Why can an assassin assassinate an ooze? Or assassinate someone fully aware/aggroed onto them sans some trick like blindness/bluff etc.? This undernines the skill of the class. I do not like it.

If you allow assassinate on these odd creatures AFTER they have been hit with assassin’s trick, I am ok with that. It is tactical & has consequences.

[Aelonwy]

Still no fix for Astral Projector?

[blerkington]

I think this simple change will bring assassins more in line with how they used to play. ...

I think you are totally correct about stealth not getting any more attention. My view of stealth play is that it's in a bad state due to a combination of several things, some of which appear to be bugs and others that seem like deliberate design decisions. Some changes could be made without changing all of it, and certainly without making stealth into the overpowered playstyle it never historically was even when it worked better.

This change will be very useful for up and coming assassins who aren't really well geared or loaded up with past lives. It could also be that I am in the minority in my opinion when it comes to people playing assassins in harder endgame content. I'm hoping we'll hear from other experienced assassin players like you in this thread or over the coming weeks as we can start to see the effect of the change. But I feel that my main is already quite strong enough and I don't want to become a forum warrior constantly advocating for my favourite build to increase in power when it isn't needed.

By the way, the current cooldown on assassination is 12 seconds. So I hope that provides some additional encouragement for you to dust yours off and start having fun with it again in game.

Thanks for your comments.

EDIT: Looks like Saekee is here now, with his usual super sensible comments. Well said.