Exotic Weapon Proficiency

[Coffey]

Is exotic weapon proficiency really necessary other that getting rid of the ugly warning symbol at the top of your screen?

-4 to hit is very minimal

[GeoffWatson]

Is exotic weapon proficiency really necessary other that getting rid of the ugly warning symbol at the top of your screen?

-4 to hit is very minimal

Yes.
With the new hit-vs-AC formula, that "-4" is actually "-20%", which means you will miss 25% of the time instead of 5%.

Geoff.

[C-Dog]

Yeah, it's kinda rough. Try it on a new alt in The Grotto, it's annoying watching your Lvl 1 graxe-wielding wizard or rogue miss those lame sahuagin on an 11.

Also, w/ any repeating crossbows, they don't "repeat" unless you have proficiency - just "ka'chunk... ka'chunk..." like regular x-bows.

[Coffey]

So a +4 Accuracy item will negate the -4 penalty to attack roll.

Edit: Weapon types Bastard Sword and Dwarven Axes (unless you are a Dwarf and naturally have proficiency with Daxes) will not produce glancing blows without the exotic weapon feat.

Exotic feat allows Repeating Light or Heavy Crossbows to fire off a volley of 3 bolts per shot. Un-proficient users may only fire 1 bolt per shot.

Also it allows Great Crossbows to knock opponents to the ground on a confirmed attack roll of a natural 20 (regardless of if it delt critical damage or not). The knockdown lasts for 6 seconds and offers no recurring save to get up.

All other exotic weapons with a +4 or better Accuracy item will negate the -4 penalty to attack roll. A Khopesh for example.

[GeoffWatson]

+4 to hit (from any source) WILL NOT negate the non-proficiency penalty.

They changed the d20+bonuses roll to a complicated percentage roll, with the equivalent d20 roll only used for critcals.

To hit bonuses are a lot less useful in the newer system, but it's non-linear - see link for more information.
http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_Class
Look under "Chance to be hit".

[Enoach]

http://ddowiki.com/page/Armor_class

Player's chance to hit: (Player's Attack Bonus + 10.5) / (Target's Armor Class * 2) + 20% proficiency bonus, rounded to nearest 5%

What you want to notice is the following...
1. The Attack Bonus where your Accuracy and To Hit for your weapon bonus is located
2. The proficiency bonus being separate


The higher the AC of your target the greater your Attack Bonus will need to be to compensate


Taking the formula above vs a 10 AC mob on a level 1 Fighter 18 strength

Player's Attack Bonus = 4 (+3 strength + 1 BaB)

(4 + 10.5) / (10 * 2) + 20% proficiency bonus, rounded to nearest 5%

(14.5)/(20) + 20% = 92.5% rounded to 90% Chance to hit


Remove the +20% proficiency and that becomes 70% Chance to Hit. In order to match the 90% you would need a Player Attack Bonus of 9, which is +5 more, in this example to make up the loss of proficiency.

As you will notice that number will become even greater as the AC of the mob increases.

[Coffey]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question much appreciated.

The way i was seeing it was a d20 -4 Attack Roll so yes -20% and it is a lot. But accuracy items add attack rolls back.
Accuracy Effect: Passive: +x competence bonus to attack rolls. So +4 competence to attack rolls should have it covered so i thought.

Another example i was looking at was moving while attacking -4 Attack Roll which is negated with Spring Attack feat.

Where do these bonuses figure in or are they really insignificant in working it out?

Edit: Also what about the -2 penalty on 2WF without the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat?

[Enoach]

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question much appreciated.

The way i was seeing it was a d20 -4 Attack Roll so yes -20% and it is a lot. But accuracy items add attack rolls back.
Accuracy Effect: Passive: +x competence bonus to attack rolls. So +4 competence to attack rolls should have it covered so i thought.

Another example i was looking at was moving while attacking -4 Attack Roll which is negated with Spring Attack feat.

Where do these bonuses figure in or are they really insignificant in working it out?

Edit: Also what about the -2 penalty on 2WF without the Oversized Two Weapon Fighting feat?

before the formula change +4 accuracy would have covered the miss chance part of not being proficient. Now it does not.

Your other items listed would all fall into the "Player's Attack Bonus" variable of the formula. Again, proficiency is its own variable now. That is why it is no longer a 1 to 1 ratio.

[Coffey]

So much for saving a feat.


Thanks once again