Early Look: Bard Changes

[NabeGewell]

Good idea with one song adding buffs of all the songs. Seriously reconsider needing 12 song to play separately for 12 people, why not just one song with all buffs for all players in the area of a target? The additional work to buff people like that just doesn't make sense.

CHA to hit and dmg is kinda necessary for this update, I shouldn't be considering to splash 2fvs for a playable bard warchanter ffs.

And you got like 12 pages of people saying same thing, don't pull a turbine again, please.

[psykopeta]

Good idea with one song adding buffs of all the songs. Seriously reconsider needing 12 song to play separately for 12 people, why not just one song with all buffs for all players in the area of a target? The additional work to buff people like that just doesn't make sense.

CHA to hit and dmg is kinda necessary for this update, I shouldn't be considering to splash 2fvs for a playable bard warchanter ffs.

And you got like 12 pages of people saying same thing, don't pull a turbine again, please.

And the cha to dc like if u were pdk, don't forget it xD

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

How about a bard song that can 1/2 the timers of all cooldown timers?

Something along those lines. Then EVERYONE (ok, almost everyone) sees a direct benefit to their build!

[thunir]

I hear everyone giving feed back about the lack of dps options on Warchanter. Me I just still wish we had access to warmaster. I'm loosing +5 to hit and damage, and 15 prr+, I know we got a new cc hat trick in the capstone, but would it be to much to keep Warmaster as a personal buff maybe in a toggle like harmonic resonance in fatesinger.

Personally I don't even want the new frozen song. The fact is you took dps away from the tree, then gave it cc that costs a bard song per use which also stinks because warchanters tend to have less songs.

I guess no one cares about loosing +5 to hit +5 to Damage, 15 PRR and +15 to resists? Why is this just disappearing with no compensation? Why is this new capstone song based on a bard whos playstyle isn't going to carry as many songs as spell singer? Cant it just get a cool down, maybe be SP based like all the other frozen ability i.e.. Frozen fury, and spinning Ice/ both SP based.

I know this is just a spell song pass, I don't expect a tree revamp, and I can tell you aren't giving it. But, I do think this is a legitimate concern and I don't think it would be that hard to fix, not that I can code. Why can't you just put the whole Capstone +2 Cha +2 Con and warmaster Inspire extras on a button and call it a day? I do think that making the frozen song a bard song poor game play for the aforementioned issue of the fact that Warchanters tend to have less songs. Maybe we are getting more songs in the update, but I don't see why we cant have both before it is a done deal. Thanks Steestar, I appreciate the focus regardless.

My 2 cents

[cru121]

I guess no one cares about loosing +5 to hit +5 to Damage, 15 PRR and +15 to resists? Why is this just disappearing with no compensation? Why is this new capstone song based on a bard whos playstyle isn't going to carry as many songs as spell singer? Cant it just get a cool down, maybe be SP based like all the other frozen ability i.e.. Frozen fury, and spinning Ice/ both SP based.

I know this is just a spell song pass, I don't expect a tree revamp, and I can tell you aren't giving it. But, I do think this is a legitimate concern and I don't think it would be that hard to fix, not that I can code. Why can't you just put the whole Capstone +2 Cha +2 Con and warmaster Inspire extras on a button and call it a day? I do think that making the frozen song a bard song poor game play for the aforementioned issue of the fact that Warchanters tend to have less songs. Maybe we are getting more songs in the update, but I don't see why we cant have both before it is a done deal. Thanks Steestar, I appreciate the focus regardless.

My 2 cents

About the damage. It seems that Inspire Courage will now grant music bonus to attack/damage. I guess it'll now stack with Good Hope's morale bonus. So the net loss should be +3/+3. This does seem disappointing.

About the PRR. It seems that Inspire Greatness will now grant music bonus to PRR. Not sure how much. Ironskin Chant should stack with what''s granted by Inspire Greatness. I did not have a chance to test this on Lamannia.

About the resists. You can snag 6 from warchanter, the 9 extra seem lost.

About # of songs. We'll see how it plays. Maybe the ability will have obscenely long cooldown and noone's ever gonna use it anyway.

About warchanter capstone: It's surprising that all stuns in Warchanter tree are charisma based yet capstone does not give any charisma.

[thunir]

About warchanter capstone: It's surprising that all stuns in Warchanter tree are charisma based yet capstone does not give any charisma.

Cap still gives +2 Con +2 Cha that I understand.

[cru121]

Cap still gives +2 Con +2 Cha that I understand.

OP says it's str and con:

The Warchanter Capstone now reads: You have +25 HP, +2 Strength, and +2 Con.

[thunir]

OP says it's str and con:

Is there a reason for this also? I don’t know any strength build bards and consistently the feedback on this thread has been “we need Cha to hit/ damage” for all builds and not just PDK. I now officially have zero reason to take this capstone or stay pure.

[Lynnabel]

Is there a reason for this also?

Probably! I don't mind changing it to +2 CHA +2 CON if it's something you guys really want

[Hipparan]

Probably! I don't mind changing it to +2 CHA +2 CON if it's something you guys really want

I'd actually prefer it to add +2 STR for a build I was thinking of, but chances are that won't come to fruition. CON is useful to every build, but I feel like thematically STR works better.

[Lynnabel]

I'd actually prefer it to add +2 STR for a build I was thinking of, but chances are that won't come to fruition. CON is useful to every build, but I feel like thematically STR works better.

Yeah, that was kinda my thoughts, too, now that I think about it a little more.

[thunir]

Yeah, that was kinda my thoughts, too, now that I think about it a little more.

Both Cha to hit and Str to hit will need Charisma. Not so much the other way around. Thematically Cha is just as important to Bard, especially if you are still trying to be a DC caster, and even all the Frozen CC DDO has implemented is Cha based, which is why most Warchanters have maxed it out.

Spinning Ice: Attack all enemies around you for +(2/3/4)[W] damage. Each affected enemy is frozen solid if they fail a Fortitude save (14 + Charisma modifier + 1/2 Bard Level + Stunning modifiers) for a number of seconds equal to your half your Bard level. Bosses cannot be frozen. Increased ranks increases how much Bard levels contribute. Activation cost: 6/4/2 SP. Cooldown 45/35/25 seconds


^^^^ Doesn't care how much strength you have ^^^^^

Neither does any other Bard ability.

Capstone: Eldritch Knight +2 INt, Enlightened Spirit +2 CHA, Renegade Mastermaker +2 Int +2 CON, and Battle Engineer +4Int, the only other Possible pure DC Caster/ Melee is War Priest and it has a choice. STR or WIS. Warchanter is the only Build of this class type that breaks rank, even Swasbuckler.... DEX and CHA.

[Sebastrd]

Probably! I don't mind changing it to +2 CHA +2 CON if it's something you guys really want

That would be my preference. Like Thunir pointed out, no bard abilities care about Strength.

Putting Strength in a Bard capstone instead of Charisma would be like making a Tiefling iconic a Sorcerer instead of a Bard.

[Evean]

Probably! I don't mind changing it to +2 CHA +2 CON if it's something you guys really want

As some who has worked as a designer for decades, please, let it be you (Lynnabel), the one who is educated, trained, and competent enough to get hired, who makes the design decisions, and not the noisiest kid on the forums.

The last time I saw something go off the rails—the pirate dagger that went from spell power, to lore, to spell power &c…—people complained, and you responded with something to the effect of “Well, no one on forums said anything, so I figured it was fine.”

Design by committee almost never works, as the people participating don’t have an understanding of the context. Without that, they are incapable of making informed decisions. I trust you to make decisions. Not the internet.

[Lynnabel]

As some who has worked as a designer for decades, please, let it be you (Lynnabel), the one who is educated, trained, and competent enough to get hired, who makes the design decisions, and not the noisiest kid on the forums.

The last time I saw something go off the rails—the pirate dagger that went from spell power, to lore, to spell power &c…—people complained, and you responded with something to the effect of “Well, no one on forums said anything, so I figured it was fine.”

Design by committee almost never works, as the people participating don’t have an understanding of the context. Without that, they are incapable of making informed decisions. I trust you to make decisions. Not the internet.

I mean, I dunno. I still have actual veto power. If someone suggests something really bad, I can just, yanno, not do it

[Aelonwy]

Personally, I think Charisma makes better sense in the Warchanter Capstone, if only because the Warchanter signature abilities (Frozen Fury & Spinning Ice) have their DC based off Charisma.

A pure bard warchanter is going to want Charisma more than a multi-class build and the multi-class build won't be getting the capstone anyway.

[thunir]

As some who has worked as a designer for decades, please, let it be you (Lynnabel), the one who is educated, trained, and competent enough to get hired, who makes the design decisions, and not the noisiest kid on the forums.

Noisiest kid on the forums? Unlike your opinion I stated my case based in fact. All other Caster/ Mele capstones in the game do have CHA, INT, or WIS, and not just strength defacto because its "flavor" and in my opinion it fits the build, by Lynnabel's own admission. What is the point of public " official discussion" if not to vet opinion? Sure we are not all "decades" old designers such as yourself but I bet a lot more of us have greater insight into the capabilities of the game mechanics.

[thunir]

What about my Warmaster? Now Warchanter is going to have the same song buffs as every other bard, and Im loosing +5 to hit +5 to Damage 15PRR and +15 resist, and all I got to show for it is a CC song I didn't need.

With all due respect

[Hjarki]

What about my Warmaster? Now Warchanter is going to have the same song buffs as every other bard, and Im loosing +5 to hit +5 to Damage 15PRR and +15 resist, and all I got to show for it is a CC song I didn't need.

There were all sorts of stacking issues before that you're ignoring. On a rough glance, you'll gain +3 PRR and lose +1 hit, +3 damage, +9 resist. I'm sure there are other stacking issues I'm overlooking (especially with Fatesinger).

[thunir]

There were all sorts of stacking issues before that you're ignoring. On a rough glance, you'll gain +3 PRR and lose +1 hit, +3 damage, +9 resist. I'm sure there are other stacking issues I'm overlooking (especially with Fatesinger).

+ 5 to hit and damage did stack and as for the rest why spend the ap for something I was getting for free at cap?