Help save a build: 15 Ranger 4 Paladin 1 Fighter (ranged)

[BoBoDaClown]

Hello,

My wife is re-starting the game after a long absence.

She wants to play ranged.

Her old character:
Elf
Level 22: 15 Ranger 4 Paladin 1 Fighter (was TWFer)
Only 2 or 3 tiers into Shiradi
Tomes: +3 dex/con +2 everything else
No pastlives
32 points

She will only be in epic play.

She will pretty much only be in R1-R3.

She has a lesser reincarnation stone lying around.

I want to use the lesser so that she can play a character type (ranged) that she wants to play straight away.

Once she is 30, we will reincarnate her to 15, and create a more effective build (probably rogue, repeater based).

Complexity of build doesn't matter (I'll do the building). Some simplicity in playing style would be good, as she re-acclimatizes to the game.

She won't play a lot - so she will be playing this build for some time - therefore, it's not just a case of zerging to 30.



So, basic build ideas:

Arcane Archer Based:
Do I go all in on the ranger?
11 points into Elf for Arcane Archer
41 points into Arcane Archer
28 into Deepwood

Deepwood Based
36ish Deepwood - tier 5
11 Elf- Arcane Archer
31 Arcane Archer (Shadow Arrow crit bonus)

Heavy Armour Based:
36ish Deepwood
22 Arcane Archer (I assume you can just use paralysing arrows to proc 5% of time)
13 Sacred Defender - heavy armour user - help survivability on a new player in relatively difficult content
4 Kensai (haste boost)
Remainder into Elf maybe - dex and accuracy

I feel the bottom one might be the best/most forgiving on a new player. It loses +1 crit multi but gains some defense.

Any other ideas?

Thank you in advance for any assistance!

[C-Dog]

With apologies for starting OT re your actual question, I would ask her to strongly reconsider going in to Epic w/ this character as-is.

1st, I, personally, do not believe (m)any new players should go into Epic w/ a first-life build. 32 points is better than 28, but still - maybe she'll be the exception, but there are SO many benefits from just 1 Heroic Reincarnation (at 20). And if she loves ranged, a Ranger Past Life is exactly what she wants.

2nd, currently, the bow is probably the weakest of all weapon styles. Bow is the red-headed stepchild of ranged. It can work, and many make it work fine, but it's noticeably weaker than crossbows atm.

3rd, this is not a great class mix - so many things you could do better. ranger 18 would make more sense, Fighter 2, 3 or 4 would make more sense, stopping at Pali 2... it is what it is, and it's not terrible, but nor is it particularly inviting.

Consider the Level 20 Reincarnation, and going w/ a past-life and a build that sings. Epic is a long march, only tougher if you're going "only R1-R3", and you want to be prepared for it.


Okay, that's off my chest, I've done my due diligence, my conscience is clear. Now...

Her old character:
Elf
Level 22: 15 Ranger 4 Paladin 1 Fighter (was TWFer)
Tomes: +3 dex/con +2 everything else
...
She will only be in epic play.

She will pretty much only be in R1-R3.
...
Complexity of build doesn't matter (I'll do the building). Some simplicity in playing style would be good, as she re-acclimatizes to the game.
...
Arcane Archer Based:
/
Deepwood Based
/
Heavy Armour Based
...
I feel the bottom one might be the best/most forgiving on a new player. It loses +1 crit multi but gains some defense.

I would say NOT the last. Ranger gets Evasion, and that requires Light armor, and, esp on what will (almost?) certainly be a Dex build, Evasion is just too good to throw away.

Between AA and DWS - why choose? Most builds use both, so do that. Especially if in a group (w/ even just 1 other), the DWS Sneak Attack damage starts coming into play.

I would suggest taking a look at this build: Strimton's Acid Arrow - and it has a great write up, give you some answers to questions you haven't thought to ask.

With a 39/41 split on AP between DWS/AA (w/ Tier V DWS), it claims to have everything you want. I've yet to try it, but it has good reviews.


With your class mix, the biggest diffs would be:

1) 1 level of Fighter, and so 1 extra Feat. You need to find out WHEN that level of Fighter was taken, what level it came into the mix. Visit Fred, and go thru the Feats one by one - on the right-hand side, it lists what level each Feat appeared, and what class mix the character was at that time. At some point, "Fighter" will first appear. This will tell you what other Feats are available at that level.

For the Feat itself, since the build does not take Concentration, swap one of the listed Feats to this Fighter slot and take Quicken (for 100% success heals in combat) in that open slot.


2) The 4(!) Levels of Pali open some tempting enhancement trees, specifically Knight of the Chalice.

6 AP gets you:

• +1d8 Light on all attacks
• Turn undead does 18d6 Light damage -an anti-undead panic button, handy to soften up groups in certain quests, and in Mabar.
• An additional +2 to saves, just by accident. Boom.
• Some other bells and whistles

The Divine Grace thing already adds your Charisma modifier to saves, capped at +14 for Pali 4 (= {2+(3*paladin level)}). (I don't see her having a +14 Cha bonus, but who knows?)

(Sacred Defender may seem tempting - for 6 AP, you get +25 PRR/MRR (& 1 AP of something - +1 extra Lay on Hands?) - but it comes w/ "+50% bonus to threat generation", which means mobs are more likely to pick on her - and I don't ~think~ she wants that, am I right?)


3) The 5 total Fighter and Pali levels, with only a base 2 Skill Points each, will mess w/ your final skill totals a bit. Suck it up, prioritize, but the +2 Int tome helps - you should be able to get most/all the core suggested skills. (If you give me a level-by-level guesstimate of the class progression (from Fred), I can take a swing at optimizing skills. If you want.)


4) Paladin's Divine Grace feeds off of Charisma, as does Lay on Hands and # of Turn Undead (that last is only important IF you go w/ the KotC enhancements). And you'll start at Lvl 20, so gear is better - esp Str gear, for encumbrance (and she has those Tomes). So stats should get changed from what is given. We could have an entire separate thread on that discussion (my suggested mix below).


5) No Ranger 18 = no Core 18 enhancements. You lose...

o Mark of the Hunted: Activate: Expend a use of Wild Empathy. Your currently selected enemy receives -25% Fortification, -10 Armor Class, -10 Spell Resistance, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ability scores for 3 minutes. This effect also works on bosses and Raid bosses.
Passive: Your attacks bypass an additional 10% Fortification. You also gain +2 Damage when attacking Favored Enemies.
Passive: +10 Positive Spell Power

o Shadow Arrows: Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: +5% Doubleshot chance with bows. Activation Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
Passive: Equipped bows gains a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier.

Both of which are pretty painful, but it is what it is*. On the plus side, you get +2 AP to spend. Yay?

(* unless you were to, say, do a Heroic Reincarnation?... ) 0

So, all told, maybe something like...

Strimton's Acid Arrow w Pali
15/4/1 Ranger/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Elf

Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .9. . . .+2. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 19. . . .+3. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .+3. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . .+2. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+2. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 14. . . .+2. . .

Enhancements (76 of 80 AP)
Deepwood Stalker (38 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Favored Defense III, Increased Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot, Dexterity
  5. Extra Favored Enemy: Human, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (32 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
  2. Dispelling Shot III, Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
  3. Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
  4. Elemental Damage, Dexterity

Knight of the Chalice (6 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
  1. Extra Turning III, Divine Light I

I left out

o AA Awareness 3 - +3 Search/Spot/to Hit.
o AA Smiting & Banishing (2 pts each)

Some people might suggest Terror -> Paralyzing Arrows instead of the Smite/Banish pair - more generally applicable (inc. vs. Reapers!), but ymmv. (Most say not to use Terror - it only makes mobs run away, and then you have to chase them and find them to kill them - annoying.)

[BoBoDaClown]

With apologies for starting OT re your actual question, I would ask her to strongly reconsider going in to Epic w/ this character as-is.

No choice. Essentially part of a static group that only eTR. The group could carry someone, so gives an opportunity to learn the ropes.

1st, I, personally, do not believe (m)any new players should go into Epic w/ a first-life build. 32 points is better than 28, but still - maybe she'll be the exception, but there are SO many benefits from just 1 Heroic Reincarnation (at 20). And if she loves ranged, a Ranger Past Life is exactly what she wants.

She has 32pt. No past life. Favour earned.

2nd, currently, the bow is probably the weakest of all weapon styles. Bow is the red-headed stepchild of ranged. It can work, and many make it work fine, but it's noticeably weaker than crossbows atm.

Yah. I will reincarnate her (iconic to skip most of heroic) asap to go with one of the repeater builds you showed me. This is a stop gap for now.

3rd, this is not a great class mix - so many things you could do better. ranger 18 would make more sense, Fighter 2, 3 or 4 would make more sense, stopping at Pali 2... it is what it is, and it's not terrible, but nor is it particularly inviting.

Consider the Level 20 Reincarnation, and going w/ a past-life and a build that sings. Epic is a long march, only tougher if you're going "only R1-R3", and you want to be prepared for it.

Yah. Class mix sucks. Unfortunately she doesn't have the LR20 I thought she has, so got to level to 30.

Okay, that's off my chest, I've done my due diligence, my conscience is clear. Now...
Very diligent. Thank you

I would say NOT the last. Ranger gets Evasion, and that requires Light armor, and, esp on what will (almost?) certainly be a Dex build, Evasion is just too good to throw away.

Reason for the heavy armour was for Sacred Defence. +20% hp, +25prr mrr, bit higher base per due to armour.
Basically was weighing up those bonuses, with a high dex save vs the evasion of light armour. You think evasion is better?

Between AA and DWS - why choose? Most builds use both, so do that. Especially if in a group (w/ even just 1 other), the DWS Sneak Attack damage starts coming into play.
Can't quite afford both, so just thinking about which should be more dominant?

I would suggest taking a look at this build: Strimton's Acid Arrow - and it has a great write up, give you some answers to questions you haven't thought to ask.

With a 39/41 split on AP between DWS/AA (w/ Tier V DWS), it claims to have everything you want. I've yet to try it, but it has good reviews.
Thank you. Had a read. Just figuring out how to adjust it.

With your class mix, the biggest diffs would be:

1) 1 level of Fighter, and so 1 extra Feat. You need to find out WHEN that level of Fighter was taken, what level it came into the mix. Visit Fred, and go thru the Feats one by one - on the right-hand side, it lists what level each Feat appeared, and what class mix the character was at that time. At some point, "Fighter" will first appear. This will tell you what other Feats are available at that level.

For the Feat itself, since the build does not take Concentration, swap one of the listed Feats to this Fighter slot and take Quicken (for 100% success heals in combat) in that open slot.

Yah, I know how to Fred it, cheers
2) The 4(!) Levels of Pali open some tempting enhancement trees, specifically Knight of the Chalice.

6 AP gets you:

• +1d8 Light on all attacks
• Turn undead does 18d6 Light damage -an anti-undead panic button, handy to soften up groups in certain quests, and in Mabar.
• An additional +2 to saves, just by accident. Boom.
• Some other bells and whistles

The Divine Grace thing already adds your Charisma modifier to saves, capped at +14 for Pali 4 (= {2+(3*paladin level)}). (I don't see her having a +14 Cha bonus, but who knows?)

(Sacred Defender may seem tempting - for 6 AP, you get +25 PRR/MRR (& 1 AP of something - +1 extra Lay on Hands?) - but it comes w/ "+50% bonus to threat generation", which means mobs are more likely to pick on her - and I don't ~think~ she wants that, am I right?)
I don't think she will pull agro from who she is playing with

3) The 5 total Fighter and Pali levels, with only a base 2 Skill Points each, will mess w/ your final skill totals a bit. Suck it up, prioritize, but the +2 Int tome helps - you should be able to get most/all the core suggested skills. (If you give me a level-by-level guesstimate of the class progression (from Fred), I can take a swing at optimizing skills. If you want.)
I'll chuck up the build once I have made some decisions, if you could take a look?

4) Paladin's Divine Grace feeds off of Charisma, as does Lay on Hands and # of Turn Undead (that last is only important IF you go w/ the KotC enhancements). And you'll start at Lvl 20, so gear is better - esp Str gear, for encumbrance (and she has those Tomes). So stats should get changed from what is given. We could have an entire separate thread on that discussion (my suggested mix below).


5) No Ranger 18 = no Core 18 enhancements. You lose...

o Mark of the Hunted: Activate: Expend a use of Wild Empathy. Your currently selected enemy receives -25% Fortification, -10 Armor Class, -10 Spell Resistance, and suffers a -4 penalty to all ability scores for 3 minutes. This effect also works on bosses and Raid bosses.
Passive: Your attacks bypass an additional 10% Fortification. You also gain +2 Damage when attacking Favored Enemies.
Passive: +10 Positive Spell Power

o Shadow Arrows: Arcane Archer Secondary Imbue Toggle: +5% Doubleshot chance with bows. Activation Cost: 20 spell points. Cooldown: 10 seconds.
Passive: Equipped bows gains a +1 Competence bonus to Critical Damage Multiplier.

I can get her Shadow Arrows with the first build choice I listed by going the Elven Arcane Archer route.
Basically more expensive.
Both of which are pretty painful, but it is what it is*. On the plus side, you get +2 AP to spend. Yay?

(* unless you were to, say, do a Heroic Reincarnation?... ) 0

Just say no to TR
So, all told, maybe something like...

Strimton's Acid Arrow w Pali
15/4/1 Ranger/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Elf

Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 11. . . .+2. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 19. . . .+3. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .+3. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . .+2. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+2. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .+2. . .

Enhancements (76 of 80 AP)
Deepwood Stalker (38 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Favored Defense III, Increased Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot, Dexterity
  5. Extra Favored Enemy: Human, Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (32 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
  2. Dispelling Shot III, Force Arrows III, Elemental Damage
  3. Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
  4. Elemental Damage, Dexterity

Knight of the Chalice (6 AP)

• Slayer of Evil, Courage of Heaven
  1. Extra Turning III, Divine Light I

I left out
o Awareness 3 - +3 Search/Spot/to Hit.
o Smiting & Banishing
Thank you for the enhancements. So you wouldn't go to Shadow Arrows or 41 in Arcane Archers, through the Elf route, costs 11AP

Some people might suggest Paralyzing Arrows over the Smite/Banish pair - ymmv. (Most say not to use Terror - it only makes mobs run away, and then you have to chase them and find them to kill them - annoying.)Yes. Was thinking para arrows as makes her contribute straight away.

Sorry about the stumpy replies- on phone. I suck at phone typing.

Again, thank you for the assistance and discussion. Once I have read some more, I will post a build for feedback.
Cheers

[cru121]

How bad would be an Int-based repeater user Harper, T5 in Deepwood Stalker?
Can still swap to bow for an occasional Manyshot.
It should have enough free feats and AP to pick up extended displacement.
Maybe also Maximize (and Quicken?) for spot healing overzealous party members.

It also makes gearing lot of easier, if you don't have to worry about paralyzing DC, wisdom, spell power for AA, etc.

[Enoach]

Because Ranger is already at 15 her character already has all the necessary feats, just needs to switch enhancements to DWS and AA.

Because of this a simple Lesser Reincarnate (no need for class switches) can put her in a decent position as you switch out any TWF feats not granted by the Ranger levels.

The Paladin levels will give her LoH for some spot healing as well as SP to help with buffs like Ram's might that helps power Bow Strength etc.

---
Now I actually disagree with C-Dog on the first life in Epics. An epic past life (or 3) before you return to heroic leveling can put your character in a better position.

[C-Dog]

Now I actually disagree with C-Dog on the first life in Epics. An epic past life (or 3) before you return to heroic leveling can put your character in a better position.

You're right, I should be more specific. My kneejerk is w/ new players pushing their 1st character to 30, someone who's never been there before - I keep thinking "one alt".

But for a veteran players, or w/ good guildmates - or, in this case, a static group to guide - shouldn't be (as much of) a problem.

How bad would be an Int-based repeater user Harper, T5 in Deepwood Stalker?

That might(?) be workable (or not, see comments below), and b/c she's already Lvl 20, she might(?) have the UMD to scroll Conjure Bolts, which imo is the dealbreaker for using a Repeater.

No-fail UMD is 29. Any form of this build can get 11 ranks, which gives 25% (I just checked). Then, here, 14 Cha + 2 ship buff = base 16 Cha = +3 UMD, plus a cheap +4 Cha item = +2 more, plus a +UMD item* = 55% - frustratingly low, but those scrolls are cheap (2+ pp/). So, doable.

(* +1's are common, more is less common, unless you have a something like a Golden Cartouche or more rare droploot bonus.)

However, the big problem is that Ranger feeds bow, and many(?) of the AA imbues are only for bows/arrows, not crossbows/bolts. (And, yes, they fixed that exploit a while ago.)

So - not sure how much of AA becomes useless when wieldng a crossbow. Certainly the "Acid" part, and that's a big part indeed. :/

No choice. Essentially part of a static group that only eTR. The group could carry someone, so gives an opportunity to learn the ropes

Ah, k - then not as over-reaching as I had feared. Go forth and adventure, my children.

Reason for the heavy armour was for Sacred Defence. +20% hp, +25prr mrr, bit higher base per due to armour.
Basically was weighing up those bonuses, with a high dex save vs the evasion of light armour. You think evasion is better?

That's Tier 3, 13 AP. I'm thinking just Tier 1 + Core 3 for 6 AP, = +25 PRR/MRR, +4% Fort, +1x LoH, call it good.

As an archer, she shouldn't(?) be in melee very often, so mostly worried about only counter-arrows and magic blasts. Evasion + her crazy saves boosts will cover the first, and hopefully her DPS will beat the 2nd at their own game, w/ Lay on Hands to clean up the diff.

(In today's game, DPS is king. Kill them before they can kill you, and you don't need to worry ~too~ much about defense.)

Note that Armor PRR is based on the player's BAB, so increases w/ level etc. At 20, hers start w +20, so heavy armor PRR = +20 PRR over Light (MRR = +0 for either) plus the enhancements. Tempting at first glance, I'll admit...

...but then there's the Spell Failure for any/all Ranger spells, +25% for Heavy. No, I think it's just not a good fit (and see next...)

o http://ddowiki.com/page/PRR#Items

I don't think she will pull agro from who she is playing with

Then maybe Sacred Defender is the better way to go, if only 6 AP worth.

Problem then is that takes even more from the already tight AP spread. But in my build above, she could dump the KotC for SD, straight across, +/- 6 AP, done. +25 PRR/MRR is a good thing, no doubt, and the more I think about it, the less useful Tier 1 KotC will be in Epic. In Heroic, an 18d6 AoE is money, but in Epic, it's only likely to just pyss off that mob of skellies and ghouls - oops. And while +1d8 Light damage is nice, it becomes less significant as you level up past 20.

So maybe take 6 points in SD for the +25 PRR/MRR etc., + stick to Light armor for the Evasion vs. magic blasts and traps, and don't look back.

I can get her Shadow Arrows with the first build choice I listed by going the Elven Arcane Archer route.
Basically more expensive.
...
So you wouldn't go to Shadow Arrows or 41 in Arcane Archers, through the Elf route, costs 11AP

The answer is simple - where is that +11 AP supposed to come from? It's just not there, and taking from DWS Tier IV & V is just too painful for what you get in return, imo. :/ So spending more because you're already tight makes no sense. You get AA free, go w/ that.


However, now that you mention that and now that I think about it, one thing I would strongly recommend, if(?!) we could fit it in somehow, is the Elven Dragonmark of Shadow, for a free Displacement clickie (and also Invis and Shadow-walk, neither insignificant). Of all the tricksy options mentioned above, a flat 50% to avoid physical damage is HUGE.


So, you'd have something that looked more like this, which keeps most(?) of what's important anyway...

Strimton's Acid Arrow w Pali & DM
15/4/1 Ranger/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Elf

Stats i](open to some variation, but this is my suggested mix)[/i]
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . 11. . . .+2. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 19. . . .+3. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .+3. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . .+2. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . 10. . . .+2. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 12. . . .+2. . .

Skills
(in rough order of priority - Spot 23, Spellcraft 11, Heal 23, Balance 11, UMD 11, Jump total = 40 (w/ +30 from spell)- and you should be able to get most (if not all) of that. Any slop into Swim.)

Feats
(Move Dodge into Fighter slot, which can happen at any level. That allows us to put DM of Shadow into that now-open regular Feat slot. Dumped Mobility - "To Hit" is not based on a d20 in DDO, so +/-4 is actually negligible in most situations.)

.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.3. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Quicken Spell
13 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Mobility

.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct

.4 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame (+1 to hit w/ Longbows)

Enhancements (80 AP)
Deepwood Stalker (36 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Favored Defense III, Increased Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot, Dexterity
  5. Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (26 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
  2. Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
  3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
  4. Paralyzing Arrows, Elemental Damage

Elf (12 AP)

• Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  1. Extra Lay On Hands I, Durable Defense III

This is a MUCH more durable version, esp w/ the DM, atlho' at an obvious cost to DPS and versatility vs. unusual opponents. I'm liking this (more, ahem).

[Pilgrim1]

Got falconer?

If so go wisdom for attack + dmg and use paralizing arrows. This allows strong CC opitons on a first life toon. Bows have **** for damage but if you go in expecting to play a CC toon and open up a Furry + manyshot on bosses you can live with poor DPS.

Eather way make sure to pick up extend and dragonmark of shadows. Having 4 charges of extended displacment is really really strong for a new toon in epic.

[Pilgrim1]

When you TR her into an iconic i strongly sugest running this build i put together: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nding-Fusilade

It can be done with eather the fighter or rogue iconic. Is very first life friendly, does great with just CC gear, and is a very strong ranged DPS build. She will be carring your party.

[Jetrule]

C-dog's second build is very nice. I might want to ad to int a bit to pick up spellcraft and listen. General spellpower will be critical to this build spellcraft helps some probably the build needs a pansopic circlet perhaps even a CC bow or two one with acid and insightful acid power the other with force? you would need a high level crafter and lots of ingredients for unbound versions though.

Pick up some candy from night revels it will allow her to ad her listen score to dodge half the time. and ad some fesrtrive ranged and festive spell powers. Mrr and prr too. The candies last for all or most of the year the last 3 years. A high dex bonus light armor like drow scout armor from the gnome works quest in evening star.

The best gear options are realy cannith craft at that level. There are a few nice items in the new quests in the 12 that came out with white plume mountain. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Shadowstrike is a decent bow that you can get sentience on or just wait for pinion if you have a raiders box.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Steelweave_Shinguards is a fairly easy drop boots till she can get orc privater at 24.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Platinum_Prayer_Beads is a decent easy to get necklace the memories of the unseen is a good dex hat and the http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Me...of_Immortality is a good hitpoint choice.

[BoBoDaClown]

How bad would be an Int-based repeater user Harper, T5 in Deepwood Stalker?
Can still swap to bow for an occasional Manyshot.
It should have enough free feats and AP to pick up extended displacement.
Maybe also Maximize (and Quicken?) for spot healing overzealous party members.

Thank you - I think we will stick to bow for now.
Will probably pick up displacement, extend, empower healing, maximise if we can fit it

Because Ranger is already at 15 her character already has all the necessary feats, just needs to switch enhancements to DWS and AA.

Yah, basically this is about picking the right enhancements. Feats/stats I'm fine with. I'm trying to decide on which enhanement route to take.

That's Tier 3, 13 AP. I'm thinking just Tier 1 + Core 3 for 6 AP, = +25 PRR/MRR, +4% Fort, +1x LoH, call it good.

As an archer, she shouldn't(?) be in melee very often, so mostly worried about only counter-arrows and magic blasts. Evasion + her crazy saves boosts will cover the first, and hopefully her DPS will beat the 2nd at their own game, w/ Lay on Hands to clean up the diff.

Note that Armor PRR is based on the player's BAB, so increases w/ level etc. At 20, hers start w +20, so heavy armor PRR = +20 PRR over Light (MRR = +0 for either) plus the enhancements. Tempting at first glance, I'll admit...

I thought you have to be in medium/heavy armour or be using a shield to benefit from the pally stance?

...but then there's the Spell Failure for any/all Ranger spells, +25% for Heavy. No, I think it's just not a good fit (and see next...)

I could cover that with Elven enhancements and augment?



However, now that you mention that and now that I think about it, one thing I would strongly recommend, if(?!) we could fit it in somehow, is the Elven Dragonmark of Shadow, for a free Displacement clickie (and also Invis and Shadow-walk, neither insignificant). Of all the tricksy options mentioned above, a flat 50% to avoid physical damage is HUGE.

Yes - and by going to displacement, you can spend one more point and can now level up entire arcane archer tree, or to the +1 crit multi if it is worth it


Feats


.1. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.3. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Quicken Spell
13 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
18. . . . : Mobility - empower heal here?

.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
.7 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct

.4 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame (+1 to hit w/ Longbows)

Enhancements (80 AP)
Deepwood Stalker (36 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Favored Defense III, Increased Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Dexterity
  4. Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot, Dexterity
  5. Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (26 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows
  2. Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
  3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
  4. Paralyzing Arrows, Elemental Damage

Elf (12 AP)

• Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  1. Extra Lay On Hands I, Durable Defense III

[/INDENT]

This is a MUCH more durable version, esp w/ the DM, atlho' at an obvious cost to DPS and versatility vs. unusual opponents. I'm liking this (more, ahem).

Thank you - some more thoughts and questions in red

Got falconer?

If so go wisdom for attack + dmg and use paralizing arrows. This allows strong CC opitons on a first life toon. Bows have **** for damage but if you go in expecting to play a CC toon and open up a Furry + manyshot on bosses you can live with poor DPS.

Eather way make sure to pick up extend and dragonmark of shadows. Having 4 charges of extended displacment is really really strong for a new toon in epic.

Yes, will displace. No to falconer, until it is out for favour

When you TR her into an iconic i strongly sugest running this build i put together: https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...nding-Fusilade

It can be done with eather the fighter or rogue iconic. Is very first life friendly, does great with just CC gear, and is a very strong ranged DPS build. She will be carring your party.

Yes, I think C-Dog recommended that one; it is probably the one we will go with once she is 30 and ready to ITR. Thank you.

C-dog's second build is very nice. I might want to ad to int a bit to pick up spellcraft and listen. General spellpower will be critical to this build spellcraft helps some probably the build needs a pansopic circlet perhaps even a CC bow or two one with acid and insightful acid power the other with force? you would need a high level crafter and lots of ingredients for unbound versions though.

Pick up some candy from night revels it will allow her to ad her listen score to dodge half the time. and ad some fesrtrive ranged and festive spell powers. Mrr and prr too. The candies last for all or most of the year the last 3 years. A high dex bonus light armor like drow scout armor from the gnome works quest in evening star.

The best gear options are realy cannith craft at that level. There are a few nice items in the new quests in the 12 that came out with white plume mountain. http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Shadowstrike is a decent bow that you can get sentience on or just wait for pinion if you have a raiders box.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Steelweave_Shinguards is a fairly easy drop boots till she can get orc privater at 24.

http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Platinum_Prayer_Beads is a decent easy to get necklace the memories of the unseen is a good dex hat and the http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Epic_Me...of_Immortality is a good hitpoint choice.Thank you for the egar ideas - we'll work at those.

[

Thank you all for the advice.

The first big question.

Do you get sacred bonuses from Pally stance if you are only in light armour- my understanding was 'no'. I will text when I get home, but if anybody already knows?

[BoBoDaClown]

WOW

I consider my mind blown.

I was always under the idea that the defensive Pally/Fighter stances required medium/heavy or a shield...only the hp component does

They don't.

So that means Heavy Armour =

Only +9 PRR (since you can mitigate the heavy armour PRR loss through deepwood sniper light armour PRR enhancements)
+20% - obviously really useful

Light Armour
Evasion
Saves some AP
Higher Dodge

I think I will go with the light armour version, 6AP Sacred Defender version, unless I notice the strong need for more hp (simple respec).

I will sketch out a build and post later.

[BoBoDaClown]

OK, tinkering - modifying the build that C-Dog has given me:

15/4/1 Ranger
15/4/1 Ranger/Paladin/Fighter
Lawful Good Elf


Level Order

1. Ranger . . . . .6. Paladin . . . .11. Ranger. . . . .16. Ranger
2. Ranger . . . . .7. Paladin . . . .12. Ranger. . . . .17. Ranger
3. Ranger . . . . .8. Ranger . . . . 13. Fighter . . . .18. Ranger
4. Paladin . . . . 9. Ranger. . . . .14. Ranger. . . . .19. Ranger
5. Paladin . . . .10. Ranger. . . . .15. Ranger. . . . .20. Ranger


Stats
. . . . . . . .32pt . . Tome . . Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .--------
Strength. . . . .8. . . .+1. . . .4: DEX
Dexterity . . . 20. . . .+3. . . .8: DEX
Constitution. . 14. . . .+3. . . 12: DEX
Intelligence. . .8. . . .+2. . . 16: DEX
Wisdom. . . . . .8. . . .+2. . . 20: DEX
Charisma. . . . 14. . . . . . . .24: DEX
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .28: DEX

Skills
. . . . . R. R. R. P .P. P .P. R. R. R. R. R. F .R .R .R .R .R .R .R
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4 .5. 6 .7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 2. . .2 .2. 2 .1. 1 . . . .2 .2 .1 . . 1. 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . . . 1. 1. 2. . . . 1. 2. 2. 2. 2. 4. 23
Spellcr . 2. ½. ½. . . . . . . 2. 1. ½. ½. ½. . .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. . . . . . . 1. 2. ½. ½. ½. . .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. . . . ½ .½. . . . ½. ½. ½. . .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . 9
Jump. . . 2. 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .6
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 6. 6. 2 .2. 2 .2. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 2 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6


Feats

.1. . . . : Point Blank Shot
.3. . . . : Least Dragonmark: Shadow
.6. . . . : Precision
.9. . . . : Improved Critical: Ranged
12. . . . : Extend Spell
13 Fighter: Dodge
15. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
18. . . . : Quicken Spell
21 Epic . : Combat Archery
24 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
26 Destiny: Epic Spell Power: Acid
27 Epic . : Epic Damage Reduction
28 Destiny: Doubleshot
29 Destiny: Deific Warding
30 Epic . : Weapon Focus: Ranged
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

.1 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Evil Outsider
.9 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Construct
15 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Undead
20 Ranger : Favored Enemy: Giant

.4 Deity. : Follower of: Silver Flame


Spells

Ranger

1. Merfolk's Blessing (8), Ram's Might (10), Resist Energy (19)
2. Protection from Energy (12), Barkskin (15)
3. Wild Instincts (16), Neutralize Poison (17)
4. Freedom of Movement (19), Cure Serious Wounds (20)

Paladin

1. Divine Favour

Enhancements (79 of 80 AP) Errors

Arcane Archer (31 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows, Shadow Arrows, Error
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows, Awareness II
  2. Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
  3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage, Dexterity
  4. Paralyzing Arrows, Elemental Damage, Dexterity

Deepwood Stalker (26 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter II
  4. Survivalist, Killer III

Elf (16 AP)

• Elven Accuracy
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcanum I
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcane Archer

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  1. Extra Lay On Hands I, Durable Defense III

The character planner doesn't seem to be able register Elven Arcane Archer as well as Ranger Arcane Archer, therefore the error.

I went the Arcane Archer route since I had already spent 12 points in the Elven Tree to get displacement and Arcane Archer cost another 4 points on top.

This build has to sacrifice merciful shot to gain Shadow Arrows. Shadow Arrows seemed more worth it.


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Alternate enhancements
with a Deepwood flavour would be:



Enhancements (79 of 80 AP)

Deepwood Stalker (38 AP)

• Far Shot, Sneak Attack, Sniper Shot, Advanced Sneak Attack
  1. Increased Empathy III, Versatile Empathy I
  2. Survivalist, Improved Weapon Finesse, Melee/Range Power Boost III
  3. Survivalist, Thrill of the Hunt III, Favored Hunter II, Aimed Shot
  4. Survivalist, Killer III, Merciful Shot
  5. Heavy Draw, Strikes Like Lightning, Head Shot, Improved Archer's Focus

Arcane Archer (23 AP)

• Arcane Archer, Morphic Arrows, Metalline Arrows, Aligned Arrows
  1. Conjure Arrows, Energy of the Wild III, Corrosive Arrows, Awareness I
  2. Force Arrows I, Elemental Damage
  3. Terror Arrows, Soul Magic, Elemental Damage
  4. Paralyzing Arrows

Elf (12 AP)

• Elven Accuracy
  1. Phiarlan Dragonmark Focus III, Aerenal Weapon Training
  2. Lesser Dragonmark of Shadow, Arcanum I
  3. Greater Dragonmark of Shadow

Sacred Defender (6 AP)

• Holy Bastion, Sacred Defense
  1. Extra Lay On Hands I, Durable Defense III

-------------------------------------------------------------------
This second build:

LOSES

-a tier of elemental damage (5usp I think)
-+1 crit multi

GAINS
-merciful shot - buggy?
-heavy draw - +5 dam seems useful? Can have this and precision on?
-strike like lightening +20% double strike
-head shot- crit hit every 12 seconds
-improved archers focus - seems useful for boss fights when manyshot is on cool down




This seems like the better options.

Could people please review the builds?
1) Skills and spells look ok?
2) Epic feats look ok?

Other enhancement layouts be more optimal?

Thank you in advance

[barecm]

If you want to do ranged attacks only, I would go pure ranger. There are a few on the ranger forums worth looking into. If you have the Ravenloft pack, you can gear up pretty quickly. I would do a balance of dex, wis, and con. Not sure if she is a past life, but if a 36 point build you can go like 16 dex and 14 wis and still have a decent con. Dump int for skills and boost to kta. I have a build listed in the ranger forums as well, but it is a bit gear heavy. My suggestion is to invest towards ranged power and you will naturally have around 60-75% doubleshot and well over 200 RP (or even 400 depending on gear and such). You can grind out non-raids easily enough in Ravenloft to get pretty nice gear set up at level 29-30.

[C-Dog]

C-dog's second build is very nice. I might want to ad to int a bit to pick up spellcraft and listen...

Thx - it kinda fell together by itself, just made sense, given what we had to work with.

But I (well, Strimton) included Spellcraft in the recommended skills, #2 priority in fact.

(The Listen + Night Revels Candy (Dodge bonus based on Listen skiil) is an interesting twist - Def something to look in to!)

The character planner doesn't seem to be able register Elven Arcane Archer as well as Ranger Arcane Archer, therefore the error.
...
This build has to sacrifice merciful shot to gain Shadow Arrows. Shadow Arrows seemed more worth it.

It would be worth it, but... no, actually. In fact, might be 2 errors...

The lesser (and uncertain re an actual error) is that Arcane Archer and Elven Arcane Archer are mutually exclusive - you can't take both. Not sure if taking AA in the Elven Tree triggers this, as you didn't actually take the EAA tree itself, but that could be a problem.

But the larger and obvious error is that Shadow Arrows is Core 18 - and this build doesn't have 18 Levels of Ranger (I mentioned that early on, in my 1st post).

5) No Ranger 18 = no Core 18 enhancements. You lose...

...
o Shadow Arrows:

So, sorry, I agree you want it (and will forego any TR comment)(beyond that), but you simply can't get there as is. Grats on Merciful Shot.

...and Arcane Archer cost another 4 points on top.

No it doesn't!

Do we have to have an intervention here? Why are you determined to pay for something you already have for free? Why are you spending 4 AP so you can take EAA, when you could just take AA itself? EAA is a work-around for ranged Elves who are not rangers - this build is a ranger, it has AA laid out and waiting.

Save the 4 AP, take AA from the start.

Strength. . . . .8 (+1 Tome)
Dexterity . . . 20 (+3)
Constitution. . 14 (+3)
Intelligence. . .8 (+2)
Wisdom. . . . . .8 (+2)
Charisma. . . . 14 (-)

I find it interesting that you are willing to spend +3, ~9% of your build points, to scrape up +1 Dex, but are not willing to spend 2% of your AP. (See below.) Just an observation.

The original had a starting Dex of 18 - I bumped that to 19 by dropping the 16(!) build-point expenditure for a starting 16 Con. Dropping Dex back to the original 18 would allow all Wis related values to jump by +3 modifier. (I split the diff in my build.)

Ultimately, unless you 100% know your final gear, there is no reason to take "even" starting stats (except Int). A starting odd stat + a random piece of gear has the same chance to end up even as a starting even stat. I won't say which is "right", as the variables are too subjective - your character, your call. This should work fine.

I like the 14 Cha btw - def stick w/ that. Feeds into so much in Pali. (Almost a shame you don't have room for Force of Personality, as Will Saves are a Ranger's weak spot - but the Cha bonus feeds back in anyway, so it should work out fine as is.)

Alternate enhancements
with a Deepwood flavour would be...

...Far better, and on several levels. You want (at least) one set of Tier V enhancements, simple as that. The combo of Tier V + Tier III generally is much stronger than 2 Tier IV's. (Plus, normally, you can't get to the Core 18's w/o spending 30 points, and that gets you there anyway.)

Jump. . . 2. 2. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . .6 (Total)

The Jump spell adds +30, aiming for a max of 40. To this you'll add

• Strength modifier
• any Jump item
• probably(?) a +3 Guild buff (from the Otto's amenity)
• & the Jump Skill
• penalty from chain armor = (typically) -1

So work backwards from the gear you expect her to have at Level 20 (or so), and see how much (if any) Jump Skill you actually need - pro'ly not +6. Might be able to squeeze another Balance or two out of that, maybe even a splash of Swim.

18. . . . : Mobility - empower heal here?

That's another option, certainly. Mobility adds +2% Dodge bonus, which is a nice little boost, but not the only way to make a character "more survivable".

If you want to go there, you might just go Maximize, which is far bigger at a greater expense - Rangers typically have stupid amounts of Spell Pts for the spells they cast.

• +150 power for +25 pts: Maximize:
• +_75 power for +10 pts: Empower Healing
• +_75 power for +15 pts: Empower (for comparison)

Empower Healing is for a healer who casts a LOT of healing spells. But for the occasional emergency self-heal, Maximize is the way to go. (She'll have 2 hotbar slots for her best heal spell, one on the main bar w/ Maximize, and one off on a secondary bar w/ an un-modified healing spell for out-of-combat healing.)

...but then there's the Spell Failure for any/all Ranger spells, +25% for Heavy. No, I think it's just not a good fit (and see next...)

I could cover that with Elven enhancements and augment?

Just fyi, yes, but that would cost even more AP that we don't have.

-merciful shot - buggy?

Not that I've heard - where you get that?


So, I like some of your mix of Enhancements, but not others. Here are the comparisons...

C-D:
Elf (12 AP)
Elven Accuracy, Elven Dexterity

BBdC:
Elf (12 AP)
Elven Accuracy
Arcanum I

Unless you know your final gear mix and don't need the +1 Dex, I'd rather have that than +25 spell points. 50% chance for that extra Dex to hit a cutpoint, for +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 AC, +1 Ref ST, etc. etc.

BBdC:
Deepwood Stalker (38 AP)
Versatile Empathy I
Favored Hunter II, Aimed Shot
Head Shot

C-D:
Deepwood Stalker (36 AP)
Increased Empathy I
Dexterity
Dexterity

--------------------------


BBdC:
Arcane Archer (23(24) AP)
Awareness I

C-D
Arcane Archer (26 AP)
Dexterity
Elemental Damage

I like the Head Shot, powerful Tier V choice, and def better than Tier IV Elemental Damage - good swap.

The Aimed shot... less so, imo. +1 Crit multiplier is nice, but... I chose to skip it b/c you said you wanted it "simple" - less buttons in the rotation.

I see a pattern that you are skipping the +Dex enhancements. I like to pump the To Hit/Damage stat, here that = Dex. I'd rather spend 4 points to have +1/+1 vs. everything (plus everything else that higher Dex gives) rather than +2/+2 damage vs. only favored enemies. Ymmv.

As a minor point, can't take Versatile Emp w/o first taking Increased Emp. It's a filler, but at least Inc. Emp I gives +4 positive spellpower for healing. (And another source of the Enhancement errors.)

But in the end, it's going to be minor either way. If your friend can handle another button, keep Aimed. But I'd try to squeeze in as much Dex as possible - that's why you took high starting Dex in the first place.

[C-Dog]

If you think the alt can scrape up +9 (Str + Jump Item +3 Guild Buff -1 chain armor... or whatever), this is optimized Skills:


Skills
. . . . . R. R. R. P .P. P .P. R. R. R. R. R. F .R .R .R .R .R .R .R
. . . . . 1. 2. 3. 4 .5. 6 .7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1. 1 .1. 1 .1. . . . 2. 2. 1. . .1 .2 .1 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spot. . . 4. 1. 1. . . . . . . . .1 .1 .1 .2 . . . .1 .2 .2 .2 .2 .3 .23
Spellcr . 2. ½. ½. . . . . . . 1½ ½ .½ .½ .½ . . 1. ½. ½. ½. ½. 1. ½. 11
Balance . 2. ½. ½. ½ .½. ½ .½. ½. . .½ .½ .½ .1. ½. ½. ½. ½. ½. . .½ .11
UMD . . . 2. ½. ½. . . . . . . 1. 2. ½. ½. ½. . .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
Jump. . . . .1 .1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .2
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .20. 6. 6. 2 .2. 2 .2. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 2 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6 .6

If you need more Jump, take points from Balance or Spellcraft (recommended in roughly that order, but ymmv).


And consider +2 to Int for Listen, for this little gem: http://ddowiki.com/page/Item:Sweet_Cinnamon_Cloud

Just one should(?) last most of the next year.

[barecm]

There is a lot of bad advice going on here. First of all, empower healing is the ONLY metamagic that affects cocoon, which is a cheap way to keep yourself healed and is more effective than cure serious spell (which empower healing also helps). Secondly, if you plan on running anything solo or Elite / reaper, you will need all the crowd control you can get; so that means maxing out your DC with a higher wisdom and maxing enchantment focus with items and enhancements etc... There are a few bonuses in the AA tree. Also, despite fear arrows annoying everyone, they will work on some mobs that paralyze will not. Then there are mobs that are immune to both. Leg shot works there to slow and works on red named as well. For stats, I never go beyond 16 (or 18 if a dex bonus race) for dex and make sure I get at least 14 into wisdom. 14-16 con depending on if the race has a -2 penalty. Then dump int for Know the Angles. Maxing a stat means taking away some potential damage (int with KtA) or ability to paralyze (wis). You simply do not need a maxed dex score to do well. You will never be able to dps like other classes (shuriken, caster, xbow, most melee) so don't try to compete. You will be able to solo where others cannot if you can crowd control and when running reaper / grouped, folks will appreciate it as well. My other advice is to get into Legendary Shroud and make a LGS Salt bow. The slow motion effect is well worth the grind and stacks with leg shot and pin (the slow part of pin).

Again, don't get hung up with min / max details or trying to do the most dps possible and realize how ranged combat is being funneled in this game. You can solo (albeit slowly with lesser dps) or run as a support character paralyzing and slowing mobs on high end content. For everything else (normal and hard), you will do just fine with a tier lower in damage and, if you learn the subtleties of IPS, you can certain impress on the kill count..... if that makes folks feel good inside.

Also, all the gear to make you more than competitive is easily farmed from Ravenloft and/or Hunter of the Wilds from Age of Rage series. You can get slight upgrades in a few pieces of raid gear, but honestly it won't be that noticeable. This game is ridiculously easy outside of higher level reaper, so you really don't need to stress that much. It won't slow you down if you don't have the latest and greatest raid gear.

[Jetrule]

There is a lot of bad advice going on here. First of all, empower healing is the ONLY metamagic that affects cocoon, which is a cheap way to keep yourself healed and is more effective than cure serious spell (which empower healing also helps). Secondly, if you plan on running anything solo or Elite / reaper, you will need all the crowd control you can get; so that means maxing out your DC with a higher wisdom and maxing enchantment focus with items and enhancements etc... There are a few bonuses in the AA tree. Also, despite fear arrows annoying everyone, they will work on some mobs that paralyze will not. Then there are mobs that are immune to both. Leg shot works there to slow and works on red named as well. For stats, I never go beyond 16 (or 18 if a dex bonus race) for dex and make sure I get at least 14 into wisdom. 14-16 con depending on if the race has a -2 penalty. Then dump int for Know the Angles. Maxing a stat means taking away some potential damage (int with KtA) or ability to paralyze (wis). You simply do not need a maxed dex score to do well. You will never be able to dps like other classes (shuriken, caster, xbow, most melee) so don't try to compete. You will be able to solo where others cannot if you can crowd control and when running reaper / grouped, folks will appreciate it as well. My other advice is to get into Legendary Shroud and make a LGS Salt bow. The slow motion effect is well worth the grind and stacks with leg shot and pin (the slow part of pin).

Again, don't get hung up with min / max details or trying to do the most dps possible and realize how ranged combat is being funneled in this game. You can solo (albeit slowly with lesser dps) or run as a support character paralyzing and slowing mobs on high end content. For everything else (normal and hard), you will do just fine with a tier lower in damage and, if you learn the subtleties of IPS, you can certain impress on the kill count..... if that makes folks feel good inside.

Also, all the gear to make you more than competitive is easily farmed from Ravenloft and/or Hunter of the Wilds from Age of Rage series. You can get slight upgrades in a few pieces of raid gear, but honestly it won't be that noticeable. This game is ridiculously easy outside of higher level reaper, so you really don't need to stress that much. It won't slow you down if you don't have the latest and greatest raid gear.

A few points about the build gleaned from the thread. It is a newish returning players character with no destiny or past life accumulation. It is a long way from running in Exalted Angel and magister twist, the gear tomes and pastlives to make for a decent CC archer in reaper. I fear it would end up as a weak cc weak dps combo on the first lifer. She will be playing with a static group that can carry her through low reaper epic questing. No soloing. So since it is currently a jacked up melee build last played a few years ago she wants lesser tr and play archer and level to 30 with the group and pick up some epic destinies along the way. In general headshot works pretty well as reaper cc and going for dps and nerve venom, pin, rainbows and whistler in shiradi with a elemental or force imbue with a high spell power score makes decent sense followed by building Fury of the wild for Burst dps which once learned can be quite good burst dps even in reaper. Probably more viable than making a 1st life cc ranger for reapers stuck with 15 ranger 4 pali 1 fighter split.

I didn't see anyone recommending raid gear the gear recommendations were all easier to get than a tier 3 lgs weapon. They were targeted more for her current level of 22 to be playable immediately than for level 28+ gear.

[BoBoDaClown]

If you want to do ranged attacks only, I would go pure ranger. There are a few on the ranger forums worth looking into. If you have the Ravenloft pack, you can gear up pretty quickly. I would do a balance of dex, wis, and con. Not sure if she is a past life, but if a 36 point build you can go like 16 dex and 14 wis and still have a decent con. Dump int for skills and boost to kta. I have a build listed in the ranger forums as well, but it is a bit gear heavy. My suggestion is to invest towards ranged power and you will naturally have around 60-75% doubleshot and well over 200 RP (or even 400 depending on gear and such). You can grind out non-raids easily enough in Ravenloft to get pretty nice gear set up at level 29-30.

Yah - not possible - the character is already level 22, 15/4/1 split - just looking to optimise that for ranged as much as I can. Thanks though

[BoBoDaClown]

But the larger and obvious error is that Shadow Arrows is Core 18 - and this build doesn't have 18 Levels of Ranger (I mentioned that early on, in my 1st post).

I do read your stuff I thought I could qualify it through the Elven Arcane Archer route - that's why I was spending those extra 4 points in the Elven tree - to qualify as an arcane archer as an Elf, rather than a ranger, and thus bypassing the 18 level restriction. Or do I misunderstand how it works?

Using this tree: here

Interestingly, just learnt - in that tree you have to be level 22 Elf, (not 18), before you can use Shadow Arrows




Why are you determined to pay for something you already have for free? Why are you spending 4 AP so you can take EAA, when you could just take AA itself? To access the level 18/20 abilites, through the Elven Arcane Archer tree - I don't know if it is worth the AP cost, but that is why



The original had a starting Dex of 18 - I bumped that to 19 by dropping the 16(!) build-point expenditure for a starting 16 Con. Dropping Dex back to the original 18 would allow all Wis related values to jump by +3 modifier. (I split the diff in my build.)

Definitely some value to be had by dropping dex


The Jump spell adds +30, aiming for a max of 40. To this you'll add

• Strength modifier
• any Jump item
• probably(?) a +3 Guild buff (from the Otto's amenity)
• & the Jump Skill
• penalty from chain armor = (typically) -1

So work backwards from the gear you expect her to have at Level 20 (or so), and see how much (if any) Jump Skill you actually need - pro'ly not +6. Might be able to squeeze another Balance or two out of that, maybe even a splash of Swim.

Yes, thanks - and thank you for the skill split below. I'll drop follow that


If you want to go there, you might just go Maximize, which is far bigger at a greater expense -
Personal choice - I prefer emp heal for cacoons




Not that I've heard - where you get that?
think it is the first page of Strim's build and then there's a thread a few threads down about it. Something about merciful strike onl working 30% of the time - I know nothing about it - just secondhand info


Unless you know your final gear mix and don't need the +1 Dex, I'd rather have that than +25 spell points. 50% chance for that extra Dex to hit a cutpoint, for +1 to hit, +1 damage, +1 AC, +1 Ref ST, etc. etc.

Yes, tbh some of those enhancements are kinda placeholdery depending on gear

I like the Head Shot, powerful Tier V choice, and def better than Tier IV Elemental Damage - good swap.

The Aimed shot... less so, imo. +1 Crit multiplier is nice, but... I chose to skip it b/c you said you wanted it "simple" - less buttons in the rotation.
Yes - that's a good point. Less buttons is better - I wasn't sure how 'essential' this is. I probably replace it for now -something that could be brought in at a later date

I see a pattern that you are skipping the +Dex enhancements. I like to pump the To Hit/Damage stat, here that = Dex. I'd rather spend 4 points to have +1/+1 vs. everything (plus everything else that higher Dex gives) rather than +2/+2 damage vs. only favored enemies. Ymmv.

Yes, good point


But in the end, it's going to be minor either way. If your friend can handle another button, keep Aimed. But I'd try to squeeze in as much Dex as possible - that's why you took high starting Dex in the first place.

will do

Thanks for the feedback - will take most of that on board.

Leaves me with one final question.

Sorry if I am being dense here:

In that first build, I used the 4 points to buy Arcane Archer, so I could access that Shadow Arrows +1 multi through the Elven Archer Tree (to combine with the +1 range through the deepwood tree) - so it ends up being an expensive way of bypassing the fact she only has 15 levels. She can potentially level up the Elven Arcane Archer tree as much as she wants. So that 1st build should work (unless you can't take any Elven Arcane Archer once you already have access to the ranger Arcane archer)- I just don't know if that route is worth the AP expenditure vs that second, more deepwood orientated, option.

[BoBoDaClown]

A few points about the build gleaned from the thread. It is a newish returning players character with no destiny or past life accumulation. It is a long way from running in Exalted Angel and magister twist, the gear tomes and pastlives to make for a decent CC archer in reaper. I fear it would end up as a weak cc weak dps combo on the first lifer. She will be playing with a static group that can carry her through low reaper epic questing. No soloing. So since it is currently a jacked up melee build last played a few years ago she wants lesser tr and play archer and level to 30 with the group and pick up some epic destinies along the way. In general headshot works pretty well as reaper cc and going for dps and nerve venom, pin, rainbows and whistler in shiradi with a elemental or force imbue with a high spell power score makes decent sense followed by building Fury of the wild for Burst dps which once learned can be quite good burst dps even in reaper. Probably more viable than making a 1st life cc ranger for reapers stuck with 15 ranger 4 pali 1 fighter split.

I didn't see anyone recommending raid gear the gear recommendations were all easier to get than a tier 3 lgs weapon. They were targeted more for her current level of 22 to be playable immediately than for level 28+ gear.

Yes - you've got it