Update 40 Preview 1: Raid Loot Feedback Thread

[legendkilleroll]

So for alacrity, most archers use the epic feat for haste.

Do they? Maybe for you but I thought sapphire sting was the go-to bow after pinion and that has 25% alacrity.

That bow is now over 2 years old and nothing has really surpassed it

[janave]

Do they? Maybe for you but I thought sapphire sting was the go-to bow after pinion and that has 25% alacrity.

That bow is now over 2 years old and nothing has really surpassed it

He is right, it is very common to take the perma haste feat. I personally swap 4-5 different bows (would have more if i wasnt lazy to run more shrouds), and 2-3 sets for shuriken throwing with different offhands.

[barecm]

Do they? Maybe for you but I thought sapphire sting was the go-to bow after pinion and that has 25% alacrity.

That bow is now over 2 years old and nothing has really surpassed it

Sapphire Sting is a good bow, and somewhat easily obtained, but I am not sure I would say it is the end game bow currently. If you build accordingly, you will get much more damage off Void with the vulnerability and extra cold damage, it has become my main weapon. Additionally, I would go with something like LGS salt for cold immune mobs or paralyze immune mobs over anything else as well since the slow proc is extraordinarily good. In reaper, I go exclusively with LGS salt in fact. I usually don't even carry ESS bow anymore once I can equip LGS salt. Don't get me wrong. Epic Sapphire Sting is a great bow to have and does nicely. I just find that with my current build, Void and LGS salt fit better. Unfortunately, being an archer is now more about crowd control than damage.

[Captain_Wizbang]

Is the nullcloth armor the only heavy armor for U40?

[Selvera]

Sapphire Sting is a good bow, and somewhat easily obtained, but I am not sure I would say it is the end game bow currently. If you build accordingly, you will get much more damage off Void with the vulnerability and extra cold damage, it has become my main weapon. Additionally, I would go with something like LGS salt for cold immune mobs or paralyze immune mobs over anything else as well since the slow proc is extraordinarily good. In reaper, I go exclusively with LGS salt in fact. I usually don't even carry ESS bow anymore once I can equip LGS salt. Don't get me wrong. Epic Sapphire Sting is a great bow to have and does nicely. I just find that with my current build, Void and LGS salt fit better. Unfortunately, being an archer is now more about crowd control than damage.

ESS is currently the highest damage bow for well developed characters on dps builds; void (and morninglord) can surpass it for damage on less developed characters or non dps builds. But the fact does remain that LGS salt (or LGS ice) can be more useful then dps in mid-to-high reaper.

[Vivanto]

Lynnabel, I hope you're still reading the suggestions here after the sh..storm you received..

I do agree that the flat damage increase is sufficient, I had to realize that already when Ravenloft was released and did the numbers for Gulthias. It already outperforms Sireth and Bloom so you don't need to worry about those.

My suggestion for the new staff would be instead add at least 1 or 2 interesting effects.

I'd love to have an Impact V on it - it does give it a +2W increase and you seem to be comfortable giving that out for Duality and Blackrazor. That's what makes those weapons so awesome, and the main reason that Blackrazor already deprecated your current best Raid GreatSword, Sanctity.

Another idea would be to add 1 more augment slot, similar to the Adamantine Knuckles. Red, Orange and Purple would keep it fully in the spirit of the SoS but it's still a nice extra to have.

[GramercyRiff]

Also still no worthwhile dagger. Vistani is fast becoming the least supported universal line I’ve seen. “Here use daggers! It’s great!” “There are no daggers.” “Shut up and do what we say!”

Pain is an incredible dagger. I can't use it because it's a raid item and I don't raid. But I'd love to (use Pain not raid).

There's tons of great leveling daggers as well.

That said, I want more great daggers.

[Lynnabel]

Lynnabel, I hope you're still reading the suggestions here

Yep, still am. I'm tinkering with the longbow right now - replaced Improved Destruction with Vorpal and Elasticity with Fetters of Unreality.

My suggestion for the new staff would be instead add at least 1 or 2 interesting effects.

I worry that adding effects would break the spirit of the item.

I'd love to have an Impact V on it - it does give it a +2W increase and you seem to be comfortable giving that out for Duality and Blackrazor. That's what makes those weapons so awesome, and the main reason that Blackrazor already deprecated your current best Raid GreatSword, Sanctity.

Adding 2W to the staff would make me want to drop the bonus multiplier. Mathematically, loaded dice are a replacement for an increased critical profile, and adding extra bonus dice on top of loaded dice on top of an innate critical bonus will be way too much.

Another idea would be to add 1 more augment slot, similar to the Adamantine Knuckles. Red, Orange and Purple would keep it fully in the spirit of the SoS but it's still a nice extra to have.

This is a good suggestion.

[J-mann]

Yep, still am. I'm tinkering with the longbow right now - replaced Improved Destruction with Vorpal and Elasticity with Fetters of Unreality.



I worry that adding effects would break the spirit of the item.



Adding 2W to the staff would make me want to drop the bonus multiplier. Mathematically, loaded dice are a replacement for an increased critical profile, and adding extra bonus dice on top of loaded dice on top of an innate critical bonus will be way too much.



This is a good suggestion.

No lynn, it wouldnt be. Not even remotely. Compare the q staff to the great ax from rl. Its still behind. You seem to be falling into the trap of comparing vs other qstaffs and the rl one is just plain bad. Unless you have major qstaff buffs we dont know about in the works you would have to try really, really, really, really hard to op this staff vs other weapons.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

If I could just get the Blackrazor in bastard sword form, I could be completely content with this update!

[AnTOIne3131]

Now introducing, Divine Spell Failure!



Close enough, I'll take it! :P

Back on non-staff topics, though, what should the rage armor do instead? Gimme suggestions!

Also, what's something cool the Chaosbow could do? I want it to be thematically chaos-aligned due to its look and origin story, but if you guys want more pizzazz I gotchu - just give me ideas

Because of the raven loft set bonus system, those armor need to be very good for ppl to actually go for them because by taking those armor they will loose on those set (crypt rider, silent avenger etc...) witch is a big drop in DPS (also RL armor are way easier to get than a raid armor so raid armor should be better imo). so the bonuses have to be very good, you can go with similar DPS ability, or go with better survivability. this is a few of my ideas; some are maybe too powerful but you said to give you suggestions :P

1- Fury rage: while raged, if you get hit or miss gain +2 con and str (stack 5-10 times?) last 30 sec per stack
2- rage of the ancient: while raged, you recall more of your barbaric ancestors, therefore you gain +5% stacking damage reduction
3- rage of speed: while raged, you become a beast that hit faster as it goes. each time you get hit you gain 2% stacking movement speed and 1% stacking attack speed (stack 5-10 times?)
4- rage of the protector: while raged, for 30 sec you gain a force field that block 50% of all incoming damage (inner cool down of 2 min so ppl don't just dismiss and rage again to get this bonus)
5- anti magic rage: while raged, you become an anti magic beacon. each time you hit someone there is a 33% chance that they gain a stack of anti magic that prevent them for casting any spell. max 3 stack, fade await every 5 sec (doesn't affect bosses)
6- bloody cleave rage: while rage, each time you use a cleave attack you gain 10 temporary hit points (scale with 100% of melee power)
7- rage of fire: while raged you become so angry that you are on fire! you gain the fire shield spell for the duration of your rage and you gain fire resist 75. your weapon also become on fire an deal devastating fire damage on each hit. you are immune to burning blood (cause you are on fire :P )
8- barbaric rage: while raged, you gain your barbarian or druid lvl (witch ever is higher) to your str and con. you loose one stack of str and con every 10 sec until you reach +5 str and +5 con
9- BIG BIG rage: while raged you gain 100 times your barbarian or druid lvl in temporary hit points (stack with the blood rage filigree set) (inner cool down of 2 mins to prevent the dismiss rage trick) barbarian are suppose to be this big guy with crazy hit points compared to other classes

[scipiojedi]

Because of the raven loft set bonus system, those armor need to be very good for ppl to actually go for them because by taking those armor they will loose on those set (crypt rider, silent avenger etc...) witch is a big drop in DPS (also RL armor are way easier to get than a raid armor so raid armor should be better imo). so the bonuses have to be very good, you can go with similar DPS ability, or go with better survivability. this is a few of my ideas; some are maybe too powerful but you said to give you suggestions :P

1- Fury rage: while raged, if you get hit or miss gain +2 con and str (stack 5-10 times?) last 30 sec per stack
2- rage of the ancient: while raged, you recall more of your barbaric ancestors, therefore you gain +5% stacking damage reduction
3- rage of speed: while raged, you become a beast that hit faster as it goes. each time you get hit you gain 2% stacking movement speed and 1% stacking attack speed (stack 5-10 times?)
4- rage of the protector: while raged, for 30 sec you gain a force field that block 50% of all incoming damage (inner cool down of 2 min so ppl don't just dismiss and rage again to get this bonus)
5- anti magic rage: while raged, you become an anti magic beacon. each time you hit someone there is a 33% chance that they gain a stack of anti magic that prevent them for casting any spell. max 3 stack, fade await every 5 sec (doesn't affect bosses)
6- bloody cleave rage: while rage, each time you use a cleave attack you gain 10 temporary hit points (scale with 100% of melee power)
7- rage of fire: while raged you become so angry that you are on fire! you gain the fire shield spell for the duration of your rage and you gain fire resist 75. your weapon also become on fire an deal devastating fire damage on each hit. you are immune to burning blood (cause you are on fire :P )
8- barbaric rage: while raged, you gain your barbarian or druid lvl (witch ever is higher) to your str and con. you loose one stack of str and con every 10 sec until you reach +5 str and +5 con
9- BIG BIG rage: while raged you gain 100 times your barbarian or druid lvl in temporary hit points (stack with the blood rage filigree set) (inner cool down of 2 mins to prevent the dismiss rage trick) barbarian are suppose to be this big guy with crazy hit points compared to other classes

Me likey likey

[Lynnabel]

You seem to be falling into the trap of comparing vs other qstaffs

That's the right way to balance items. If quarterstaves are behind other weapon styles, that is a problem with quarterstaves as a whole, not THIS quarterstaff. If, in the future, we buff TA or Henshin, and this quarterstaff was balanced to compensate for class balance, this quarterstaff will be drastically overpowered. We don't want to push class balance into item balance, it just makes it harder to do future designs. DDO has too bright of a future to kick this can down this particular road.

[Chacka_DDO]

No lynn, it wouldnt be. Not even remotely. Compare the q staff to the great ax from rl. Its still behind. You seem to be falling into the trap of comparing vs other qstaffs and the rl one is just plain bad. Unless you have major qstaff buffs we dont know about in the works you would have to try really, really, really, really hard to op this staff vs other weapons.

Nope, Lynnabel is not wrong here you have to compare quarterstaffs to quarterstaffs if you don't do so you basically create a new kind of weapon.
You cannot say a quarterstaff has to have the same dices as a Great Axe.
Some developers did it in the past but this was not really well thought out and I see it even as a mistake.
If quarterstaffs are too weak in general this is another problem that maybe needs to be addressed.
If you ask me, basically the whole weapon system in DDO needs an overhaul and then I would personally not allow any weapon that breaks the rules.
But you could make properties like improved critical profiles a part of the rules if you want.
And then you could also craft them or find them as random drops.

[barecm]

ESS is currently the highest damage bow for well developed characters on dps builds; void (and morninglord) can surpass it for damage on less developed characters or non dps builds. But the fact does remain that LGS salt (or LGS ice) can be more useful then dps in mid-to-high reaper.

I disagree as I can easily get 300-400 of extra cold damage with Void and elemental arrows that is not on ESS as well as stay frosty and the arrow clickie from Void also hitting harder due to cold vulnerability from Void.

[Vivanto]

Adding 2W to the staff would make me want to drop the bonus multiplier. Mathematically, loaded dice are a replacement for an increased critical profile, and adding extra bonus dice on top of loaded dice on top of an innate critical bonus will be way too much.

Makes sense. It does reason that Blackrazor does have a reduced dice increase (+4 instead of +6), while Duality was also patched to have it reduced. I think most of us would rather keep the +6 on the Staff and get +W from other sources (Imp Martial Arts, Imp Power Attack..)

Thanks for the response!

[Captain_Wizbang]

That's the right way to balance items. If quarterstaves are behind other weapon styles, that is a problem with quarterstaves as a whole, not THIS quarterstaff. If, in the future, we buff TA or Henshin, and this quarterstaff was balanced to compensate for class balance, this quarterstaff will be drastically overpowered. We don't want to push class balance into item balance, it just makes it harder to do future designs. DDO has too bright of a future to kick this can down this particular road.

Agreed, Q-Staffs are situational lately because of nerfs over the years.

Our beloved woo-woo stick, Dreamspitter is a classic example. From hero to zero.

No answers, my idea is a better crit profile so... Im out

My concern is only one type of mediocre heavy armor with a proc that favors only 2 classes.

[NarutoArgo]

That's the right way to balance items. If quarterstaves are behind other weapon styles, that is a problem with quarterstaves as a whole, not THIS quarterstaff. If, in the future, we buff TA or Henshin, and this quarterstaff was balanced to compensate for class balance, this quarterstaff will be drastically overpowered. We don't want to push class balance into item balance, it just makes it harder to do future designs. DDO has too bright of a future to kick this can down this particular road.

Adding another augment slot will hardly co pebsate because augs aren't holding up to item scaling. As well not adding effect so there can he a cheap rip off of the class is SoS is not necessarily the best idea. There are plenty of effects that can be put in place that mimic shadow. such as con drain, slay living, 2d4 level drain on crit. etc.

And on the topic of the above quote, it would be more useful to go ahead and compensate for staff builds by making this staff strong and reworking it and the builds later. If you don't the way you propose and for those reasons then basically you're adding a useless staff and by the time y'all get around to actually touching staff builds that staff will be old news. you can always just go back andrework. I am aware this is more work but with the state that staff builds are in working on the staff and not compensating is wasted work because it won't be used anyways. It'll be as useless as the sickle.

Speaking of the sickle, why not make that a mama with like 18-20×2 for some ninja spy love.

[Thar]

Yep, still am. I'm tinkering with the longbow right now - replaced Improved Destruction with Vorpal and Elasticity with Fetters of Unreality.



I worry that adding effects would break the spirit of the item.



Adding 2W to the staff would make me want to drop the bonus multiplier. Mathematically, loaded dice are a replacement for an increased critical profile, and adding extra bonus dice on top of loaded dice on top of an innate critical bonus will be way too much.



This is a good suggestion.

if you remove elasticty, it probably won't have the dps to compete with the age of rage bow. it already is 2w short of that non raid bow which has the increased multiplier from elasticity to do higher crits.

not that everything needs to be the same but if it isn't competitive somewhat in base damage the extra effects won't matter too much.

[Thar]

I disagree as I can easily get 300-400 of extra cold damage with Void and elemental arrows that is not on ESS as well as stay frosty and the arrow clickie from Void also hitting harder due to cold vulnerability from Void.

the arrow can be used with any bow once you have the raid bow.

The cold damage is situational as a lot is immune to is. the age of rage bow by far exceeds the damage void can do.