Hyrbid Favored Soul Builds: Thoguhts Apreciated

[Haphazarduk]

Well, that will teach me to be more careful when writing thread titles...

Anyway, I have been playing around with various builds recently; Vistani melee focused, AoV DPS and a War Soul. I've come to the conclusion that, with the AoV capstone, a hybrid melee/caster should be possible, at least for most content.

Here are my thoughts. Be interested in other people's ideas. I know some of you have been thinking the same kind of thing...

Pure FvS. With the Aov Capstone of +4 stat and +2 DCs I think the most viable way of making a hybrid work is to stay pure. I played around with a few 18/2 and 14/6 ideas but you just lose too much DC and can't make it up easily enough through other trees (maybe Warlock?).

Probably DC rather than DPS. Although AoV gives some really good DPS through Sunbolt DPS should be coming from melee primarily and there won't be enough feats to cover everything. Slow cooldown Instas mix better with relatively fast cooldown melee abilities (more on that later).

Given the DC focus its' probably wis based. Saves a feat as well which is critical.

Probably human. Although wis races offer the extra DC there won't be points to spare for racial tree (unless you have Racial PLs in which case its worth doing Aasimar or Deep Gnome). That extra feat is crucial.

Melee ability is tough. For a while the only real option I could see was Vistani as its a pretty self contained tree and has great single target DPS which is what you'll need against bosses. Vol as deity gives some extra base damage and an ok level 6 ability for vampirism and extra con. However I think Silvanus might work for a 2H option but that means investing in War Soul for melee abilities which isn't quite so good. Trash clearing should be better though.

One other option is the Qstaff and go Aureon but I just don't think it will deliver on the damage front.

So I'm currently think 20 FvS, 41 Aov (Capstone), 39 Vistani (Tier 5s) Wis based with Implosion, Destruction, Mass Frog etc. Feats; Necro DC, Spell Pen, SWF, IC:P, PA if room.

What do you think?

Hap

[Brightheart245]

So, delayed response here but figured I would respond since no one else appears to have.

I've actually seen a couple players play a pure Vistani hybrid DC FVS very well, even into epics / low to mid reaper. So, this sounds totally viable and fun! However, the two guys I knew of playing this sort of build were pretty well geared, with a sufficient amount of past lives and reaper points so that was also helping them achieve an effective gameplay.

One thing I wanna clarify is that you can actually use CHA or WIS for both SP and spell DC, in response to the WIS comment you made. However, as you've mentioned, WIS is superior IMO because of Mass Frog and natural bonus to Will saves, saving you a potential feat.

Human sounds solid, especially for reasons you've mentioned about having no Racial AP to spend/invest into other racial trees. I'm sure for another iteration of this with Racial AP to spend and juggle points around, would Aasimar be just as competent. Healing Hands are just too good, and addicting.

Not sure if you're planning to go to 30 and stay at cap for endgame content either, but otherwise from what I've seen, the hybrid build can rival pure DC builds from general content leveling from 1-30. The FVS life I was running prior to the pass (which has been sitting at cap as a DC Caster / Healer) leveled occasionally with a Vistani hybrid, and the main downfall in comparison was that the other player was able to DPS bosses down more effectively. I tend to stray away from hybrid type builds (namely DPS and casting specifically) for the most part at cap so I'm not sure if it's any effective for high skull reaper quests and raids.

Anyhow just some thoughts on your thoughts, hope it's enjoyable if you're already running one!

[Haphazarduk]

...seems difficult to get it these days!

On the Cha v's Wis point yes, in fact I'm running a Chr version at the moment. In fact I've now run about 4 different FvS builds into the mid/late teens to try different things out. Currently though I'm finishing another wiz life on my main to get the spell pen as I've found it an issue in mid skull reaper even in heroics so want the extra PL bonus.

I think when I TR though I'll try a DPS FvS life on that toon. I tried a Helf AoV up to about 13 and it was a blast (literally!) with Crits above 2k even at that level. I did find the other SLAs/blast options limited though so might try a FvS/Cleric (DD) for double Sun Bolt fun next life. We'll see.

The other ones I tried were FvS/Pal Vistani which was rock solid and could hold its own in mid skull reaper even on a first life, a Chr based Dragonborn Aov War Soul hybrid which didn't come together that well a Aasimar Monk Hybrid which was fun but not as effective in Reaper as the Paladin splash.

I'm not a big fan of Reaper buts it where the group action is these days and there's only so much soloing you can put up with.

You're right about healing hands on Aasimar - it really is nice although I think BoH makes it somewhat redundant. That close wounds sla is great for spot healing in groups.

Ultimately I'm wondering whether, whilst a FvS hybrid will work, its not better done with another class. To expedite levelling I refocused my AM wiz as a Vistani Pale Trapper and it is working out much better than I had imagined. The only real issue is healing in Reaper but they otherwise have great defences and more feats to pull off a hybrid build. I wonder whether a toaster vistani wiz would work....

Hap

[Vish]

One other option is the Qstaff and go Aureon but I just don't think it will deliver on the damage front.

Hap

I did 12/6/2 henshin staff build
In early part of theory craftin the celestial monk
It was the hardest hitting staff build I came up with
But that's because it had wisdom conversion
You can get it now in falconry, so pure is still the way to go
But worked great for a heroic tr build
I wanted to take it to cap,
But had better options at the time

I wouldn't suggest anything less than 18 fvs
For the implosion
And wis is prob best, to get frog
Never played a vistani tho
So good luck

[xenon211]

The best use of vistani would be before lv 12 when fvs caster gets its full set of wheels and just goes to town. You could stop AoV investment at 14 AP for 3 cores and sunbolt, but then without any fighting style feats, swashbuckler, kensei enh, or w/e else, it might be workable to use vistani but not better than just casting by any amount. It would simply be an alternative to sp-based dps which means you take more damage in melee, not a good trade imo. At lv12 you get BB, comet sla, and flamestrike, which is all you need to clean up GROUPS of mobs. I don't see the point of melee alongside a fvs caster build at all, esp dagger which is a one mob at a time kind of playstyle and weaker than casting at virtually every level. It's handy for raiyum at lv11 (but not 12) or mephit portals but I am failing to find any other real use for melee other than slowing a caster build down.

You don't have the feats available to excel at both, nor the enhancements. If you abandon the evocation spells (other than implosion) then you can trim out some caster feats, but then dagger will not, in any way, shape, or form, exceed the damage you could be doing with an evo rota. So I guess you could build a "hybrid" and continue the tradition of hybrids, that is being sub-par at everything they try to do.

[JDCrowell]

So I spent some time pondering this. Having a Hybrid Melee / Caster FvS. This is my favorite class, and Aasimar has become one of my favorite races.

So....this is what I came up with. Someone give me some feed back on how this would work. This is a theory craft build I might try for my next life once I hit 30.

Angel of Destruction
18/2 Favored Soul/Fighter
Lawful Good Aasimar


Level Order

1. Favored Soul . .6. Fighter . . . .11. Favored Soul. .16. Favored Soul
2. Favored Soul . .7. Favored Soul . 12. Favored Soul . 17. Favored Soul
3. Fighter . . . . 8. Favored Soul. .13. Favored Soul. .18. Favored Soul
4. Favored Soul . .9. Favored Soul . 14. Favored Soul . 19. Favored Soul
5. Favored Soul . 10. Favored Soul . 15. Favored Soul . 20. Favored Soul


Stats
. . . . . . . .28pt . . 32pt. . .34pt . . 36pt. . .Tome. . .Level Up
. . . . . . . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . ----. . .---- . . --------
Strength. . . . 10. . . .10 . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +6 . . . 4: WIS
Dexterity . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . .8. . . . 8 . . . +6 . . . 8: WIS
Constitution. . 15. . . .16 . . . 16. . . .16 . . . +6 . . .12: WIS
Intelligence. . .8. . . .10 . . . 12. . . .14 . . . +6 . . .16: WIS
Wisdom. . . . . 20. . . .20 . . . 20. . . .20 . . . +6 . . .20: WIS
Charisma. . . . 10. . . .10 . . . 10. . . .10 . . . +6 . . .24: WIS
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28: WIS

Skills
. . . . .Fv Fv Fi Fv Fv Fi Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv Fv
. . . . . 1. 2. 3 .4 .5 .6. 7. 8. 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
Concent . 2. 2. . .1 .3 . . 2. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Heal. . . 4. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 23
Jump. . . . . . 1 . . . . . . .2 .1 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .2 .3 .1 .1 .1 .1 .23
Spellcr . 4. 1. 1 .1 .1 .1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. 1. . .22
Balance . 2. ½. . .1 . . . .1 .½ .1 .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ .½ . . 11
Diplo . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2. 2. 2. 4. 10
Tumble. . 1. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1
. . . . .------------------------------------------------------------
. . . . .16. 5. 5 .5 .5 .4. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7
Max . . .16. 5. 5 .5 .5 .5. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 6. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7. 7


Feats

.1. . . . : Maximize Spell
.3. . . . : Empower Spell
.3 Fighter: Single Weapon Fighting
.6. . . . : Spell Focus: Evocation
.6 Fighter: Power Attack
.9. . . . : Improved Single Weapon Fighting
12. . . . : Empower Healing Spell
15. . . . : Quicken Spell
18. . . . : Improved Critical: Slashing
21 Epic . : Overwhelming Critical
24 Epic . : Greater Spell Focus: Evocation
26 Destiny: Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
27 Epic . : Greater Single Weapon Fighting
28 Destiny: Mass Frog
29 Destiny: Dire Charge
30 Epic . : Intensify Spell
30 Legend : Scion of: Arborea

.1 Aasimar: Bond of the Protector

.2 FavSoul: Knowledge of Battle
.9 FavSoul: Stout of Heart

.7 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Electricity
12 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Fire
17 FavSoul: Energy Absorption: Cold

.1 Deity. : Follower of: Sovereign Host
.8 Deity. : Unyielding Sovereignty


Spells

1. Cure Light Wounds (1), Nightshield (1), Divine Favor (2), Protection from Evil (4)
2. Cure Moderate Wounds (5), Lesser Restoration (7), Soundburst (9), Hold Person (11)
3. Cure Serious Wounds (8), Magic Circle Against Evil (9), Prayer (11), Searing Light (13)
4. Cure Critical Wounds (10), Holy Smite (11), Death Ward (13), Freedom of Movement (15)
5. Divine Punishment (12), Raise Dead (13), Greater Command (15), Flame Strike (17)
6. Blade Barrier (14), Heal (15), Cometfall (17)
7. Destruction (16), Greater Restoration (17), Mass Cure Serious Wounds (19)
8. Fire Storm (18), Mass Death Ward (19)
9. Implosion (20)

Enhancements (80 AP)

War Soul (39 AP)

• Smite Foe: Melee, Resilience of Battle, Sanctuary, Blur, Haste
  1. Divine Will III, Toughness III, Righteous Weapons
  2. Wall of Steel III, Righteous Weapons, Haste Boost III
  3. Radiant Flourish: Melee III, Righteous Weapons, Wisdom
  4. Ameliorating Strike, Righteous Weapons, Holy Striker: Doublestrike III, Wisdom
  5. Divine Champion

Aasimar (28 AP)

• Stronger Bonds, Wisdom, Stronger Bonds II, Wisdom, Stronger Bonds III
  1. Fight the Wicked, Improved Recovery
  2. Fight the Wicked, Arcanum III, Divine Purpose
  3. Fight the Wicked, Divine Charge III, Blessings III, Improved Recovery
  4. Divine Form

Beacon of Hope (13 AP)

• Pleasant Disposition, Beacon of Grace, Shining Light
  1. Good Hope III, Spell Critical, Spell Points I
  2. Spell Critical
  3. Spell Critical

[JDCrowell]

These threads tend to garner no interest from the masses these days, so this will probably sit for months without a reply.

I do plan on play testing this build soon, and I will publish my results/experience; probably in another thread.

[Haphazarduk]

You don't have the feats available to excel at both, nor the enhancements. If you abandon the evocation spells (other than implosion) then you can trim out some caster feats, but then dagger will not, in any way, shape, or form, exceed the damage you could be doing with an evo rota. So I guess you could build a "hybrid" and continue the tradition of hybrids, that is being sub-par at everything they try to do.

You may well be right but I think the TR build opens up some things that a cap build doesn't. For a start the level 18 and 20 enhancements come into play less, especially if you intend to TR at, or close to, 20 like I do. That gives some more flexibility on multiclassing and enhancement spread. Secondly, you're not going to be *that* far behind the curve in either at 20 and even less at the bulk of your heroic levels (say 10-18) so the odd one or two on a dc doesn't matter as much.

My experience with daggers is very different from what you describe. In heroics (especially the low to mid teens) the evo rota isn't that well established. Sunbolt is great but there aren't that many other AoE options so you're using nimbus and searing light more than you'd like. They're powerful still but seem to wane faster in reaper than melee. I also find Cometfall a bit glitchy. It often targets incorrectly or doesn't affect secondary targets. It's still good but not a fail safe. Finally I found myself having to juggle lots of spell items to maintain light, necro, positive and force. To be fair that would be made easier if I was using my weapon slots as well rather than damage-based weapons but its still an issue. Weapon damage is a good go-to default.

Vistani really packs a punch with daggers. I've found it still effective in mid skull reaper where I begin to get let down by other factors other than damage output.

Anyway, just about to TR my wiz into the first of 3 FvS lives so will give some feedback as I go.

Hap

[xenon211]

I started mixing in melee attacks in early levels cause nimbus really kinda blows and found staff attacks work well till about lv8, maybe 9. At 10, with flamestrike, I basically don't swing a weapon ever again. Even with a SINGLE aoe spell, I kill groups so much faster that it isn't worth bothering with weapon attacks on single targets. At the 10-12 range, one aoe spell on a short cd is more than enough to handle groups as large as you can gather. Also, the mobs health is very close to what FS hits for at that point. Lv 12 Blade barrier and comet fall sla just make it ridiculous easy compared to melee. Past lv12 there is just no comparison. Can melee get it done, sure, but not nearly so well as a well geared and well built caster. Sunbolt can one-shot most things throughout the entirety of heroics. And your other aoe's are no slouch either. Your experience of better melee is because you aren't fully gearing or speccing for casting. Try casting out, in a whole-hog manner with good gear and then tell me that melee is as good as caster in heroics, I dare you. You can say you prefer melee, but you wont be able to say it kills faster or even to say that it kills close to the same speed. Literally, run through dungeon, gather as many as you can, nuke em dead in 3 or 4 seconds. Can melee do that to 20 mobs ... not in heroics, and especially not with 5 champs and half a dozen reapers in tow as well.

I do use my weapon slots for dual wielding caster sticks (Celestial Beacon, ML9 and a crafted ML10 combustion, Ins. Radiance). I also went to the trouble of crafting full sets of gear for my caster since my melee sets just weren't getting it done in caster mode with a couple caster pcs thrown in. Made em for lv5, 13, and 18 and a couple ML10's to supplement my slavers set I made for it as well. It handles force, ins force, force lore, radiance, ins radiance, light lore, combustion, devotion, evo dc, ins evo, ins spell pen, and enchantment dc (prolly shoulda done necro dc instead on that one *shrug*). Gets me stats I want, defenses, saves, skills, etc. I also tried to make it so I could swap the set to int/cha based casting as well if desired for other future lives. A couple crafted weapons and/or items and I can swap spell powers as well. It is very easy to swap sets at the appropriate levels and has made my last 4 or 5 lives very easy in fvs evoker beast-mode.

Yes, cometfall can be buggy, if you are targeting a mob and it dies before your cast goes off, it glitches and doesn't cast (but still eats your sp). If the mob passes you and goes behind you, it glitches. Solution: get close and don't bother to target them. If someone else is killing them, let em, target something else. If it casts, I have never seen it not damage surrounding mobs UNLESS they are on a different level than was targeted. Sometimes a ledge will vastly mess up splash damage for aoe's. One other annoying glitch is sometimes it will say target not in range when it is right next to you, at that point, actively targeting them fixes it. If you mean it doesn't knock em down ... that's a DC issue. If it's doing too little damage because of saves, again DCs.

I am not going to post about fvs evokers any more. The inevitable result will just be a nerf at some point and then I'd have to find another build for the rTR train. Ofc, given the preponderance of nerfs directed at capped performance, maybe a build over-powered in heroics and under-powered at cap is safe for now. Regardless, I will shut my yap, at least until I arrive at the end station of Racial Completionist. No nerfs plz *knock on wood*.

Edit: For your FvS lives I very much recommend aasimar, it's very synergistic and 20 points into it are not wasted pts at all. 60% Hamp, SP and spell pen, healing hands, +2 wisdom, and 10% health toggle.

[Haphazarduk]

Oh, I'm not saying melee is better than casting in heroics, merely that a hybrid with decent capability should be possible (and fun). Having said that I like a dare! My experience (and I'm sure it is different to yours) is that, on mid-skull reaper, where I find myself more often than I'd like these days, I have to be careful with my aoes. Sometimes its fine but sometimes I don't kill all the mobs, get loads of aggro and take a beating. Daggers seem to hold up better for me and allow me to take a more measured approach and use aoes selectively.

My caster gear is probably a little off the curve but not much. I have decent crafted, slaver and lootgen gear and most decent at level rares. The only gear I don't have is RL as I don't have the expansion and I don't have multiple level sets for a perfect max.

Aasimars are great for caster FvS, probably all types in fact, but the extra feat from humans and the extra damage from Helfs is also nice.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts and, whatever your preferred play style, I think they are good fun to play at the moment.

Hap