Melee Survivability Changes Feedback Thread

[Cordovan]

Please preview the melee survivability changes on Lamannia, and get us your feedback based on your actual on-Lamannia experience if you can. Thanks!

[gemineye]

after activating the epic defensive stance, it puts everything on cooldown.. I can't even talk to a quest giver until the cooldown expires. Is this WAI?

[Cordovan]

after activating the epic defensive stance, it puts everything on cooldown.. I can't even talk to a quest giver until the cooldown expires. Is this WAI?

Yup. This is a bug, and will be fixed before live. Additionally, we are aware that the character sheet continues to display your regular Ranged Power even when the stance is active.

[gemineye]

now that Barbarian DR has been changed, will the rest of the non-barbarian DR system get changed also?

[Rathic]

Is the intent for the new melee stance to work with Warlock melee abilities (Eldritch aura, burst, and spirit blast)? I am not sure if those abilities count as "touch range" already or if the aura toggle is too close to the blast stances and gets roped in with their mutual exclusivity. I am definitely actively being "touched" before I can use them effectively

[JP457]

So its a giant screw you to S&B tanks who could actually use the HP?

[thomascoolone64]

So its a giant screw you to S&B tanks who could actually use the HP?

Do forumites ever quit whinning about changes? "Why isnt this happening? Why isnt that happening?"

[CaptainPurge]

So its a giant screw you to S&B tanks who could actually use the HP?

No

TLDR: Taking shield feats will not reduce your HP. But if you take THF it is +5% HP/feat. Same with SWF and TWF. You don't lose HP going S&B with this new stance.

[SirValentine]

Epic Defensive Fighting - Your hero has learned to enter a reactive state, protecting themselves in the chaos of battle by rolling with the punches, but this hampers their ability to engage ranged threats.
This is a new Epic Feat automatically granted at level 21. This is a toggled ability that when active:
Adds a 5% Competence Bonus to maximum Hit Points, with an additional 5% for every combat fighting style feat you have, to a maximum of 25%.

The Paladin Defensive Stance Hit Point buff has been changed to Competency, which it always was, but the text was incorrect.

Are "Competence" and "Competency" meant to be two different things, or the same thing? The similar-but-not-identical naming makes this unclear.

The feat can be used with other defensive and offensive stances

This seems extremely and deliberately misleading, since it doesn't stack with, and is actually bigger than, things like Stalwart Defense stance HP bonus. So why would anyone spend 13+ AP for a 20% stance that doesn't stack when you're going to give them a 25% stance for free?

All Spell or spell-like abilities that are affected by Metamagics have their range reduced to touch range.

So my melees now have an excuse to not bother with teamwork anymore.

[Thar]

Please preview the melee survivability changes on Lamannia, and get us your feedback based on your actual on-Lamannia experience if you can. Thanks!

Is something else in the works for shield feat users/tanks? Tanks take the agro from melee and have the same issues in reaper. hence the invention of the cleric tanks that just ball up and heal/intim as that's really all you can do as a tank for end game tanking. too many mobs and your AC isn't enough of a miss chance, prr only takes away so much and dodge while limited due to armor only negates a random attack. Not saying tanks should be invincible but there is no good reason unless something else is in the works to not include shield users in any upgrade. shield users are far from op compared to any melee and still in back of the pack dps wise.

[Silverleafeon]

Please preview the melee survivability changes on Lamannia, and get us your feedback based on your actual on-Lamannia experience if you can. Thanks!

There is a lot to changing healing to touch range only, more than one might think based upon past experience with the unveiling of Pale Masters long ago.

Hopefully, reduction to touch ranged does not affect facing properties otherwise the situation is far worse.

Most players do not take the Mobile Spellcasting feat:

"Mobile Spellcasting
Passive
A character, when casting, will normally move at half speed. This feat allows a character to move at normal speed while casting.
Combat Casting, Dexterity 13,
Ability to cast 2nd level spells
Level 3: Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard
Level 4: Bard, Favored Soul, Sorcerer
Level 7: Paladin, Ranger "

simply because it cost too many feats for most builds to consider.

Quicken often replaces said feat, however Quicken does not remove the movement penalty.


Add to that, that a large portion of the population simply moves significantly faster than the typical cleric via class feats, boosts, and enhancements, making it difficult to chase down allies intent on their own agendas.


Also add to that, that if a spell is begun while the target is within range, but completed while the target is out of range, said spell will cost spell points and go on cooldown.


Perhaps the Devs are simply seeking to prevent any spell caster from activating this feat?

If so, there is a very simple way to do thus:

"One cannot activate said new Epic Fighting HP feat if one has acquired the Magical Training feat."

"Magical Training

Jump to: navigation, search

Magical Training
Usage: Passive
Prerequisite: none
Description
Magical training increases maximum spell points by 80. It also applies Echoes of Power if the caster drops below 12 spell points. Characters with this feat are considered proficient with orbs.
As of Update 17, this feat is now a trainable feat.
As of Update 19, this feat also grants +5% chance to Spell Critical.
Magical Training is automatically granted the first time that a character gains a level in any of the following classes: Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard. It can only be taken once however, so it is not advisable to take this feat if you plan to add any levels of these classes at a later time.
Few classes can access this feat via enhancements:
Bard - third rank of Magical Studies from Spellsinger enhancements
Ranger - third rank of Energy of the Wild from Arcane Archer enhancements
Aasimar - tier four Celestial Tutelage from Aasimar enhancements
BUG: Currently Magical Training does not list Warlocks although they are auto-granted this feat at 1st level."


This locks out spellcasters entirely from using said feat including hybrid melee caster types, if that is the Devs true intention, without harming the ability for melee toons to employ TEAMWORK which is a traditional part of D&D lore.




Also it is very curious that the Devs are counting feats (with a limit of five) for this HP bonus, although I could understand thus.

A typical melee interested in DPS will automatically purchase a melee feat line up along with one or more Perfect Weapon feats.

Since this activates in Epic Levels, it actually encourages players to take certain unnecessary feats (thereby gimping their build) in order to bypass an effective level gate.

For example, a typical melee player will obtain three combat feats by level 21, perhaps SWF, ISWF, GSWF which gains three fifths of the hp tiers. A smart player might actually take two more fighting feats such as THF & ITHF simply to gain the other two fifths of the HP bonus. Said dummy feats would be swapped out at level 26 and 28 when one gains PSWF and PTWF.


So, there is a flaw in this format which is easily exploited.
It might be much better to simply level gate the HP bonuses instead of making feat requirements.

I have brought up earlier that excluding tanks from this bonus is decreasing role/class distinction which is a important lore aspect of D&D. If said bonuses help tanks too much, suggest reducing the entire bonus.


Suggest changing to thus:


Epic Defensive Fighting

Your hero has learned to enter a reactive state, protecting themselves in the chaos of battle by rolling with the punches, but this hampers their ability to engage ranged threats.

• New Epic Feat
• Auto granted at level 21
• Toggled Ability
• While Toggle is active:
  
  • 15% Untyped Bonus to max hit points, with an additional 5% gained at both level 26 and 28
  • Reduces your Doubleshot and Ranged Power to 0 while active.
  • Exclusive from Range stances (Improved Precise Shot, Archers Focus, Shiradi stances, Warlock Blast stances.)
  • Remains active while dead
  • Can be used with other defensive/offensive stances & Rage
  • Cannot be activated if one has the Magical Training feat