Melee Survivability Changes Feedback Thread

[Zretch]

Agreed, on the other hand, i know of only 1 decent reaper warlock tank atm
And i know of a dwarven fighter14, warlock 6 that does ok, maybe we should limit the hp from this buff to medium& heavy armor and link it somehow to the bab? Lets say a 1% hard cap for every point of unbuffed& uncentred bab?

Exactly 0 ES tank warlocks would turn this toggle on. They already have a 20% competency bonus for the capstone which doesn't stack, and not being able to turn on your aura drops your PRR and MRR by 13, as well as taking away brilliance, which provides far more mitigation over time than shining through does. Brilliance provides 2xCon/2 sec or your Con every second in temp hitpoints. Shining through provides 8xCon/30 sec or 0.26xCon every second. Brilliance is 4 times better at damage mitigation over time.

And to me that's fine. ES warlocks would lose more than they gain toggling this feat on.

BTW, ES warlocks wear medium armor (proficiency and 0 ASF granted in tier 4 ES) and have full BaB (via ES capstone).

No warlock playing a META build would ever, ever toggle this buff on, so stop worrying about the impact of this buff on warlocks. They're not building for melee and bursting, they're building for CC and instakills from long range.

[SirValentine]

And another point I would like to mention is add other strength building advantages.

Dexterity gets hit, damage, reflex, AC
Wisdom gets hit, damage, will, AC
Constitution receives damage, Hit points, Fortitude
Intelligence gets Hit, damage, skill points gained each level, Insightful Reflexes
Charisma gets hit, damage, Force of Personality, Divine Might, Divine Grace

Strength is only hit, damage

That is not really true. It's a very misleading comparison.

Strength is melee hit, melee damage, tactics DCs
Dexterity gets ranged hit, Reflex, AC
Constitution receives hit points, Fortitude
Intelligence gets skill points gained each level
Wisdom gets Will
Charisma gets jack.

Well, every ability score has some skills that use it. And, of course, certain class features use certain ability scores, but those don't apply for everyone.

Yes, there are special feats or gear, etc., that let you swap a stat, to get, say, Dex for melee to-hit, but those are the exception, not the baseline. If you want to argue the the devs have made those special exceptions too common and too easy to acquire, I won't disagree, but that's a separate topic.

Str is melee to-hit and damage, automatically, for free, for everyone.

[Nubom70]

Oh boy! Can we have a secondary-skill nerfing toggle please, so multiclass characters can't use it?... said no player ever.

Seriously, get the design teams head out of their collective *****, stop trying to be special snowflakes, and just add a HP +% to weapon AND shield feat lines
if you think people actually need more health, so that anyone with a weapon skill or a shield (including hybrids), can get some love.

Stop riding the shortbus and doing complicated solutions to problems that don't exist. You're starting to look like Congress.

[sjbb87]

That is not really true. It's a very misleading comparison.

Strength is melee hit, melee damage, tactics DCs
Dexterity gets ranged hit, Reflex, AC
Constitution receives hit points, Fortitude
Intelligence gets skill points gained each level
Wisdom gets Will
Charisma gets jack.

Well, every ability score has some skills that use it. And, of course, certain class features use certain ability scores, but those don't apply for everyone.

Yes, there are special feats or gear, etc., that let you swap a stat, to get, say, Dex for melee to-hit, but those are the exception, not the baseline. If you want to argue the the devs have made those special exceptions too common and too easy to acquire, I won't disagree, but that's a separate topic.

Str is melee to-hit and damage, automatically, for free, for everyone.

So answer me, if any player who really understands the game will do a dps-based strg from this list?

Swashbuckler
Assassin
War Soul
Henshin Mystic
Ninja Spy
Shintao
Thief-Acrobat

So I do not think it's par, unless it's level 1 character

and about Tactical feats
Deadly Instinct
Know the Angles
Divine Presence
Divine Will


I want to know if strg build will have other properties like the other attributes,

So give me

"special feats or gear, etc., that lets you swap to stat"

to Strength users


I've said this before and I'll say it again

fvs and clerics with monk splash, invest only in constitution and wisdom and receive from wisdom:
Hit
damage
Will
Armor Class
Spell Difficulty Class



And builds Strength ... has nothing
Only hit and damage

[Thar]

Please preview the melee survivability changes on Lamannia, and get us your feedback based on your actual on-Lamannia experience if you can. Thanks!

Is something else in the works for shield feat users/tanks? Tanks take the agro from melee and have the same issues in reaper. hence the invention of the cleric tanks that just ball up and heal/intim as that's really all you can do as a tank for end game tanking. too many mobs and your AC isn't enough of a miss chance, prr only takes away so much and dodge while limited due to armor only negates a random attack. Not saying tanks should be invincible but there is no good reason unless something else is in the works to not include shield users in any upgrade. shield users are far from op compared to any melee and still in back of the pack dps wise.

[Niminae]

The 50 MRR is quite a disadvantage, and comes into play quite often: EVERY SINGLE REAPER quest has spells that Monk Evasion doesn't work on because Reapers themselves have such spells, making MRR matter.

If you are aware that you have only light defenses against spells and still aren't using spell absorption, you're doing something wrong. I know there are a few broken spells and boss effects which ignore spell absorption, but those are the exceptions rather than the rule.

[noobodyfool]

I'm not denying that Monks are the tankier of the light/no armor classes, but the defenses are no grand miracle box. Anyone can go for respectable defenses - it's just that I never needed to on my ranged/caster classes. I can solo reapers on my first life mechanic, and Reapers get constantly easier on my casters due to spell pen and DCs being given to me.

The CCs on a Monk are indeed pretty good, and I'd argue an Ice build Bard or a Vanguard is even better -- but a Monk's CC is definitely not good enough to handle the mob density of modern quests unless they all come perfectly clumped for Dire Charges.

What Im getting from what your saying hear is anyone can do A B C D and your right anyone can do a-d But Monk does it better than any other toon PERIOD its the combination of a-d and the level at which monk gets it done PERIOD

This is mainly because much of the meta DPS light armor classes either have disqualifiers in their enhancements for wearing Medium/Heavy armor, and they don't have the enhancements or feats that give Medium/Heavy armor the MRR advantage that would outweigh having Evasion.

What your saying is a lesser truth to the fact of the point being raised, in the question (Is there a reason why no meta dps wear heavy armor ?) the answer is whether building a monk,tempest,rog,kensi the advantages of Cloth or Light Armor far out way the disadvantages of Heavy Armor.

Indeed there used to be some rock > paper > scissors logic to heavy and light armors, especially in the introduction of PRR. But that has since changed with the cap of 50 MRR on Monks and giving Reapers unevadable spells. Though I'm not asking that they give light or unarmored classes PRR and MRR that can rival heavy armor users - just that they should not be excluded from the survivability issues high Reaper has as ALL melees are struggling without a caster to carry them.

They already rival heavy armor DPS builds in substantive DEFENSE between the combinations PRR,MRR,IMPROVED EVASION,DODGE,AC,CC's and DPS.
I agree with not excluding cloth,light armors and as they are not excluded this is a nonissue but Heavy Armor has Been excluded from all but TANKING.

To repeat this (why the hatchery think its a good idea to tank in light armor to avoid magic damage!) In Baba Raid and other Raids some tanks chose light armor to have evasion rather than mrr because it a better choice again showing the inferior quality of Heavy Armor.

I don't think heavy armor is broken at all. It's more that TWF and SWF is favored by classes that are better in light/no armor, and those are the superior DPS styles. THF is favored by the heavier armor classes, but currently needs a pass. Once THF is buffed, I expect the heavy armor classes to explode.

I disagree Im seeing event THF using Light Armor for DPS Builds.

As to the fact that Heavy Armor is inferior to light Armor for all builds but Uber Tanks it is broken.

S&B is a tougher beast. Vanguard did a lot to make S&B builds viable, and were for a time even top DPS...

I never saw them be top DPS.

but trying to balance the lower risk vs DPS reward can be tough.

What ever they did with monk and warlock is the wrong model to fallow but we are here now so BUFF or NERF but fix it.

I think once they have the melee surivability and all the other melee DPS stances balanced more fairly, they can see where S&B should sit. As it stands, they're not tanky enough for R10 content short of 0 DPS builds, and if you are just tagging along with a caster, you might as well be a meta DPS class as there is no reason to give up DPS for survival when nothing can attack you.

(Quote Originally Posted by noobodyfool View Post

Finally this is why heavy armor is broken and we need armor up 2.

Heavy Armor 25% AC and MRR)

ACCORDING TO LORE, SCIENCE AND COMMON SENSE HEAVY ARMOR SHOULD BE WAY BETTER THAN IT IS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Chacka_DDO]

Now after you have already done all the implementation work, it is even more unlikely that you are open to other ideas or drop big parts of the work you have already done.

nevertheless, here what I think:

The restriction to spell casting, in general, is in my opinion bad because basically every melee in epic levels cast at least cocoon, just only barbarians are most likely not affected by this restriction at all.
With your change, you either cripple a lot builds like druid melee and warpriests and many more or they can not use this hp boost.
I would expect that you drop this restriction at least for heal spells, raises, and buffs.

Because this is a general balancing problem in DDO I don't see the logic that this should only affect epic and legendary levels.
And even if seemingly not many players do it, it is currently harder to play quests on reaper difficulty at heroic levels in general than at level 30, while it is much less rewarding (with unknown reason).
DDO should be balanced as a whole and not only from level 20-30.

And even if this is clearly harder to do than a simple % HP boost, I think it should rather be a fixed amount per level.
e.g. 10 HP/level from 1-20 and 30 HP/level from 21-30 for a total of 500 HP at level 30.

Fighters and paladin should not be excluded from this changes and if you give a fixed amount of 500 HP it would mean an additional 650 HP boost for them, which is in level 30 still not totally out of line for a medium or heavy armored tank build.
Feats for shields should be included but the total amount of hp gain should not be extended by this.

I have the opinion you don't need restrictions, you only need requirements to get such an hp boost.
And if the benefit is not too big, nobody would meet the requirements, who would not do it anyway.
And therefore it is enough to make more hp an additional benefit to the different combat styles we have.
e.g. a ranger at level 30 would get the hp boost if he has two weapons equipped because he is in the right combat style.
But if this ranger equips a bow, he automatically loses this boost because the wrong weapon is equipped, no loss of ranged power and the double shot is needed because the requirement for the HP boost is not met anyway.
And even if I'm afraid you don't do it any way I'm personally quite convinced this is the simpler and more logical way to do it.
Only pure casters could get this benefit then, even if they don't plan to be in the melee range of monsters, but only if they take up to four feats for this, who have no other benefit for them than more HP.
Personally, I'm not afraid that many casters will do that and if one does it it is more or less "balanced" by the loss of four useful caster feats for him.

Maybe it would make sense to introduce a separate combat style for casters.
And maybe a new kind of one and two-handed weapons you only equip when your plan is to cast ONLY spells, maybe even with new casting animations that only work with this weapons.
Pure casters need some help anyway in my opinion.

[Silverleafeon]

Please preview the melee survivability changes on Lamannia, and get us your feedback based on your actual on-Lamannia experience if you can. Thanks!

There is a lot to changing healing to touch range only, more than one might think based upon past experience with the unveiling of Pale Masters long ago.

Hopefully, reduction to touch ranged does not affect facing properties otherwise the situation is far worse.

Most players do not take the Mobile Spellcasting feat:

"Mobile Spellcasting
Passive
A character, when casting, will normally move at half speed. This feat allows a character to move at normal speed while casting.
Combat Casting, Dexterity 13,
Ability to cast 2nd level spells
Level 3: Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Wizard
Level 4: Bard, Favored Soul, Sorcerer
Level 7: Paladin, Ranger "

simply because it cost too many feats for most builds to consider.

Quicken often replaces said feat, however Quicken does not remove the movement penalty.


Add to that, that a large portion of the population simply moves significantly faster than the typical cleric via class feats, boosts, and enhancements, making it difficult to chase down allies intent on their own agendas.


Also add to that, that if a spell is begun while the target is within range, but completed while the target is out of range, said spell will cost spell points and go on cooldown.


Perhaps the Devs are simply seeking to prevent any spell caster from activating this feat?

If so, there is a very simple way to do thus:

"One cannot activate said new Epic Fighting HP feat if one has acquired the Magical Training feat."

"Magical Training

Jump to: navigation, search

Magical Training
Usage: Passive
Prerequisite: none
Description
Magical training increases maximum spell points by 80. It also applies Echoes of Power if the caster drops below 12 spell points. Characters with this feat are considered proficient with orbs.
As of Update 17, this feat is now a trainable feat.
As of Update 19, this feat also grants +5% chance to Spell Critical.
Magical Training is automatically granted the first time that a character gains a level in any of the following classes: Artificer, Cleric, Druid, Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Warlock or Wizard. It can only be taken once however, so it is not advisable to take this feat if you plan to add any levels of these classes at a later time.
Few classes can access this feat via enhancements:
Bard - third rank of Magical Studies from Spellsinger enhancements
Ranger - third rank of Energy of the Wild from Arcane Archer enhancements
Aasimar - tier four Celestial Tutelage from Aasimar enhancements
BUG: Currently Magical Training does not list Warlocks although they are auto-granted this feat at 1st level."


This locks out spellcasters entirely from using said feat including hybrid melee caster types, if that is the Devs true intention, without harming the ability for melee toons to employ TEAMWORK which is a traditional part of D&D lore.




Also it is very curious that the Devs are counting feats (with a limit of five) for this HP bonus, although I could understand thus.

A typical melee interested in DPS will automatically purchase a melee feat line up along with one or more Perfect Weapon feats.

Since this activates in Epic Levels, it actually encourages players to take certain unnecessary feats (thereby gimping their build) in order to bypass an effective level gate.

For example, a typical melee player will obtain three combat feats by level 21, perhaps SWF, ISWF, GSWF which gains three fifths of the hp tiers. A smart player might actually take two more fighting feats such as THF & ITHF simply to gain the other two fifths of the HP bonus. Said dummy feats would be swapped out at level 26 and 28 when one gains PSWF and PTWF.


So, there is a flaw in this format which is easily exploited.
It might be much better to simply level gate the HP bonuses instead of making feat requirements.

I have brought up earlier that excluding tanks from this bonus is decreasing role/class distinction which is a important lore aspect of D&D. If said bonuses help tanks too much, suggest reducing the entire bonus.


Suggest changing to thus:


Epic Defensive Fighting

Your hero has learned to enter a reactive state, protecting themselves in the chaos of battle by rolling with the punches, but this hampers their ability to engage ranged threats.

• New Epic Feat
• Auto granted at level 21
• Toggled Ability
• While Toggle is active:
  
  • 15% Untyped Bonus to max hit points, with an additional 5% gained at both level 26 and 28
  • Reduces your Doubleshot and Ranged Power to 0 while active.
  • Exclusive from Range stances (Improved Precise Shot, Archers Focus, Shiradi stances, Warlock Blast stances.)
  • Remains active while dead
  • Can be used with other defensive/offensive stances & Rage
  • Cannot be activated if one has the Magical Training feat

[Silverleafeon]

Personal preference would be:


Epic Defensive Fighting

Your hero has learned to enter a reactive state, protecting themselves in the chaos of battle by rolling with the punches, but this hampers their ability to engage ranged threats.

• New Epic Feat
• Auto granted at level 21
• Toggled Ability
• While Toggle is active:
  
  • 2% Untyped Bonus to max hit points per Epic level gained.
  • Reduces your Doubleshot and Ranged Power to 0 while active.
  • Exclusive from Range stances (Improved Precise Shot, Archers Focus, Shiradi stances, Warlock Blast stances.)
  • Remains active while dead
  • Can be used with other defensive/offensive stances & Rage
  • Cannot be activated if one has the Magical Training feat

Prefer that Epic Destinies are level gated by Epic Levels and other bonuses do the same.

If you are truly concerned about Melee in Epics, surely one should consider raising Epic Destiny levels from six minus 1 xp to ten while level gating thus. It would make Epic Leveling more interesting.

This also reduces total HP bonus to 20% which is much more reasonable bonus.

[Silverleafeon]

Practical gaming experience has shown that healers do benefit from teamwork healing due to the large self healing penalties in reaper.

Practical gaming experience has shown that it is already rare for healers to receive such benefits.

Practical gaming experience has shown that making teamwork healing even more difficult due to touch range will discourage most players from bothering to heal anyone, including the healer.

Practical gaming experience has shown that it is not always practical to wait for ideal party composition before starting a new dungeon.

[Shadow_Jumper]

What your saying is a lesser truth to the fact of the point being raised, in the question (Is there a reason why no meta dps wear heavy armor ?) the answer is whether building a monk,tempest,rog,kensi the advantages of Cloth or Light Armor far out way the disadvantages of Heavy Armor.

They already rival heavy armor DPS builds in substantive DEFENSE between the combinations PRR,MRR,IMPROVED EVASION,DODGE,AC,CC's and DPS.
I agree with not excluding cloth,light armors and as they are not excluded this is a nonissue but Heavy Armor has Been excluded from all but TANKING.

To repeat this (why the hatchery think its a good idea to tank in light armor to avoid magic damage!) In Baba Raid and other Raids some tanks chose light armor to have evasion rather than mrr because it a better choice again showing the inferior quality of Heavy Armor.

Its actually not really much better to tank Baba in light armor. The amount of MRR/energy resistance buildup available can reduce even R5+ Baba DoTs to less than 100 per tick.

I agree that we don't see as many heavy armor builds as we probably should, but they do exist, and this buff is another perfect reason why. There are absolutely 0 reasons that the big "melee rebalance" buff should purposefully exclude tanks/tank-lite builds. I would feel much better about this buff if it stacked with the defense stances. If it does not, then light melee make up way too much ground for this to be considered a viable rebalance.

As to the fact that Heavy Armor is inferior to light Armor for all builds but Uber Tanks it is broken.

I never saw them be top DPS.

What ever they did with monk and warlock is the wrong model to fallow but we are here now so BUFF or NERF but fix it.

I have ran with several players who play heavy melee builds. And while of course their single target DPS is less than a light melee (as it should be), the survivability and tankiness that they gain is massive, and a huge boon to any high skull group. I consider it a major shame that SSG seems to want to purposefully remove these builds from accessing this buff, and is one of the major reasons I am opposed to it. If it will not benefit all melee, then it should not be released. As it is this will allow top light melee to close the gap between heavy armor builds even more, and it should not be so.

If SSG actually cared about balancing melees then this would stack with the stances. As it is they only want to help the players who want to be useful on a light melee that doesn't put points/gear to any defense, and believes that they are entitled to be useful in high skulls. If you fail to build properly, fail to gear properly, and fail to play smart, then you are entitled to nothing in high skull reaper.

People also need to play heavy armor melee fighters more. They are amazing builds that are some of the most useful additions to a group in high skull reaper. Wish SSG would show them some love rather than nerfing Power Surge and not letting this stack with their defense stances. Its pretty sad.

Don't think we need "Armor up 2" though. The PRR ratio is fine. The well built, well geared heavy armor melee I've ran with can hit in excess of 300 PRR.

[elvesunited]

Issue: Shield Mastery and Improved shield Mastery do not get the hp bonus.

Solution: Shield Mastery, two handed weapons, two weapon fighting, natural fighting, single weapon fighting lines all provide the bonus but like combat style melee power bonus most of them provide, they do not stack with each other.


Issue: Spell casting reduced to touch range only preventing spot healing and buffing support from many characters.

Solution: Limit this to offensive spells. Or if this isn't feasible then reduce spellpower ( except for positive and repair ) to 0 and give all enemies a +200 to saves and spell resistance to spells cast by a spell caster with this feat active.


Issue: Hybrid melee/caster are made even less attractive by this feat.

Solution: Making the eldritch knight less attractive might be impossible. But anyway for eldritch knight, warpriest and warsoul. Make it as part of their higher up core enhancements or Tier 5 enhancements that they get to ignore the spell casting penalty of the new feat. It's not really possible to make these characters over-powered.


Issue: Not applying benefits to pure tanks who take the hp bonus from their enhancement tree.

Solution: I think this is being done to handle an issue which doesn't really exist. Super tanks. Aside from being extremely rare, it doesn't really effect them. Tanks of that power are all about the grind. If the enemy is doing more damage than the tank than the tank can recover from then the tank dies and at best the extra hp requires a few more hits for the enemy to do it. If the tank can recover from and avoid damage better than the enemy can dish it out then the enemy dies and the new hp doesn't make the slightest difference as it was never that close. What this does effect are those tanks who are not maxed out walls of impenetrable hp. So make the hp bonus different type then the enhancement bonuses.

[Grace_ana]

If SSG actually cared about balancing melees then this would stack with the stances. As it is they only want to help the players who want to be useful on a light melee that doesn't put points/gear to any defense, and believes that they are entitled to be useful in high skulls.

The part that's really nonsensical is that most of the light melee builds are either hybrids or high UMD that depend on being able to help heal the entire party. I'm just picturing the trainwreck that is this feat in, say, a high-skull Baba.

[Shadow_Jumper]

The part that's really nonsensical is that most of the light melee builds are either hybrids or high UMD that depend on being able to help heal the entire party. I'm just picturing the trainwreck that is this feat in, say, a high-skull Baba.

Honestly it’s a major attempt at cash grab. The fact that aasimar healing hands was not affected by the range debuff just makes an already ridiculous race even more so. SSG wants all the melee players to buy aasimar.

I doubt they care about true balance. They would have made this work with all melee builds if they seriously did.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Issue: Spell casting reduced to touch range only preventing spot healing and buffing support from many characters.

Solution: Limit this to offensive spells. Or if this isn't feasible then reduce spellpower ( except for positive and repair ) to 0 and give all enemies a +200 to saves and spell resistance to spells cast by a spell caster with this feat active.


Issue: Hybrid melee/caster are made even less attractive by this feat.
.

This solution would still hurt some melee hybrid builds. Druids especially would be particularly affected.

If SSG really thinks melee need more survivability then they should just increase the toughness feat to give something like a stacking +4% HP each time taken. Unless a build seriously wants to hamstring themselves by taking 8-10 of them it would give melee a slight boost and not affect much of anything besides them. Most casters still wouldn’t take toughness due to DC/Spell Pen needs, and they would get less benefit due to lower hit die. The overall effect would probably be the same as what this feat does for melee. Maybe make epic toughness 8-10% or something.

[noobodyfool]

Its actually not really much better to tank Baba in light armor. The amount of MRR/energy resistance buildup available can reduce even R5+ Baba DoTs to less than 100 per tick.

I agree that we don't see as many heavy armor builds as we probably should, but they do exist, and this buff is another perfect reason why. There are absolutely 0 reasons that the big "melee rebalance" buff should purposefully exclude tanks/tank-lite builds. I would feel much better about this buff if it stacked with the defense stances. If it does not, then light melee make up way too much ground for this to be considered a viable rebalance..

Kool Man

I consider it a major shame that SSG seems to want to purposefully remove these builds from accessing this buff, and is one of the major reasons I am opposed to it. If it will not benefit all melee, then it should not be released. As it is this will allow top light melee to close the gap between heavy armor builds even more, and it should not be so..

I agree with this part

If SSG actually cared about balancing melees then this would stack with the stances. As it is they only want to help the players who want to be useful on a light melee that doesn't put points/gear to any defense, and believes that they are entitled to be useful in high skulls. If you fail to build properly, fail to gear properly, and fail to play smart, then you are entitled to nothing in high skull reaper..

Wow we agree again

People also need to play heavy armor melee fighters more. Wish SSG would show them some love rather than nerfing Power Surge and not letting this stack with their defense stances. Its pretty sad.. They are amazing builds that are some of the most useful additions to a group in high skull reaper.

I agreed again ***

Don't think we need "Armor up 2" though. The PRR ratio is fine. The well built, well geared heavy armor melee I've ran with can hit in excess of 300 PRR.

Ok for a second there I thought I was in a parallel universe where we agree on every thing

Ok lets get back to normal At 200PRR you have 66.6% absorption = 3 shot; this equates to 3000 EHP if you had 0PRR
Here is your toon and most monks cloth and light armor guys 200-250 range

At 300PRR you have 75% absorption = 4 shot; this equates to 4000 EHP if you had 0PRR
Here is my toon when I go Vanguard and many others as you have pointed out 275-325 range

There are 9% points between the 2 Armor types and 1 shot in Monkey's example.

Of course there are other types of damage and defense MMR vs Dodge mmr Improved Evasion.

Last and most important DPS Where Cloth and Light Armor builds Reign Supreme by a factor of 20-40% and more

Considering all factors this is The 5 step program For Extraordinary Success for all Melee in Reaper and DDO!!!

1. Barbarian improvements Dr ect. X Good Job

2. Melee HP X Although watered down and not going to Shield users giving Fighters and Pallys the finger.

3. Make Heavy Armor Great Again 25% Ac and or MRR _ needs a check here

4. Tactics 50% improvement _ needs a check here

5. Stealth in reaper _ needs a check here

[Silverleafeon]

Due to previous experience on live server dealing with healing using touch range spells, giving feedback here.

Epic Defensive Fighting

Your hero has learned to enter a reactive state, protecting themselves in the chaos of battle by rolling with the punches, but this hampers their ability to engage ranged threats.

• New Epic Feat
• Auto granted at level 21
• Toggled Ability
• While Toggle is active:
  
  • 4% Bonus to max hit points, with an additional % for every combat "fighting" style feat you have, to a max of 30%. (Exact list below)
  • Reduces your Doubleshot and Ranged Power to 0 while active.
  • Exclusive from Range stances (Improved Precise Shot, Archers Focus, Shiradi stances, Warlock Blast stances.)
  • Remains active while dead
  • Can be used with other defensive/offensive stances & Rage

• The Complete list of "Fighting Feats" that apply:
  
  • +5% combat style feat tier one type for only one of the following feats
    
    • Single Weapon Fighting
    • Two Handed Weapon Fighting
    • Two Weapon Fighting
    • Natural Fighting (first taken)
    
    
  • +6% combat style feat tier two type for only one of the following feats
    
    • Improved Single Weapon Fighting
    • Improved Two Handed Weapon Fighting
    • Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    • Natural Fighting (second taken)
    
    
  • +7% combat style feat tier three type for only one of the following feats
    
    • Greater Single Weapon Fighting
    • Greater Two Handed Weapon Fighting
    • Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    • Natural Fighting (third taken)
    
    
  • +8% combat style feat tier four type for only one of the following feats
    
    • Perfect Single Weapon Fighting
    • Perfect Two Handed Weapon Fighting
    • Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
    • Perfect Natural Fighting (needs to be created)
    
    
  • Additional:
    
    • Paladin Defensive Stance HP buff bonus will be changed to competency (which it appears it always was, but the text was incorrect)
    • Aasimar racial hp bonus will be changed to Sacred (should now stack)

Barbarian stuff has always been good.


This gets rid of spellcasting penalties due to the feat tax that will force quality built spellcasters away from spending four feats when they don't have enough feats anyway. No, I don't think even a Wizard can afford to blow four feats just for hit points, after all, how many take multiple toughness feats? But if one did, the build would be giving up a great deal of power from CC and Instant Kills, making them considered undesirable for high reaper grouping anyway.

With the spellcasting penalties gone, there is no concern for lack of teamwork, which was my main concern, otherwise it becomes a poison pill feat similar to Improved Fortification (which is why I made earlier suggestions to also avoid spellcasting penalties).

Yes, I am granting all nonwarlock spellcasters a 4% hp bonus, they likely could use it anyway...

+1s for all the posts above this one that made this clear
Pure Credit for ideas goes to them not me.

[Silverleafeon]

4. Tactics 50% improvement _ needs a check here

+1s

Without locking down foes in reaper, no amount of hp will help the situation.

The lock down could be any combination of tactical feats/abilities, spells, and intimidating tanking, etc...

[noobodyfool]

+1s

Without locking down foes in reaper, no amount of hp will help the situation.

The lock down could be any combination of tactical feats/abilities, no spells and intimidating tanking is fine but we need 50% longer trip, stunning blow, and some new tatical feats for melee

Don't forget to +1 Armor Up 2.0 =25% AC and MRR you know deep down in your black heart its not right to deny hard working Heavy Armor Wearers!