Good old Reliable Figher <3

[Coffey]

I started a fighter bard cleric but didnt feel it was right for me so i switched early on to khopesh SWF fighter cleric strength domain looking at 15/5 split instead. Found a guild early on with no expectations and the ship buffs are a great help.

Should be a solid build with heavy armor, strength to reflex saves, force of personality for charisma to will saves and opening some more room for dodge as well.

Was going to go elf add greater DM of shadow but opted instead for human least DM of passage for 25% run speed and dimension door (if i can spare the AP). I can bail out if the mobs are too heavy. Love the speed so far took it at level 1.

I split at 5 cleric and i think its good this way for all round build both defense and offense. I started with 2 clr 1 ftr and i have now added 3 more clr so the rest of the way is fighter. Its not as good on melee early on but the leveling is easy early on so i wanted to add in clr levels early. With the addition of divine might it has some surprisingly good damage off the hop.

I started split stat 16 str 16 cha because this is a new character 1st life. 2 str from strength domain at level 2 is another nice addition early on. Adding just enough balance for SWF then jump, umd and search.
It had taken me some time to get used to no cleaves but i am getting used to single target fighting now and with haste boost and divine might for the heavy mobs its not bad. Used long sword until level 3 when i found a khopesh to use.

At level 6 there are 8 points in kensai for haste boost and exotic khopesh, and the rest in warpriest for divine might, HP, PRR and 2nd core for 2 AC and DR -5. Pretty solid build so far with the addition of the str to reflex saves 4% dodge so far and with newbie gear with divine might running i have a perfect balance of 12, 12, 12, saving throws.

At level 8 with 3 fighter levels in i will remove all but 4 AP for divine might from warpriest and move the points in to stalwart defender 13 AP for greater stance 20% HP and 25 PRR MRR etc.

At level 12 very significant boost with +1 critical threat range, +20 melee power. I can only get greater weapon focus feat at fighter 12 so that will be pushed back to level 17 good trade off for all that cleric 5 brings to the build.

As the weapon focus/specialization feats are added with the fighter levels i will bring kensai up the same time. Greater SWF will be added by level 13, a big boost for total 30% weapon speed and an additional 50% more strength to damage.

My plan is to add the last heavy armor fighter feat at level 19 as i may run some level 19 content not sure yet.

An alternate build plan i am thinking about adding 4 levels of pally starting at level 15 for divine grace saving throws.
Im thinking it will add more with saving throws than the final heavy armor feat 12 PRR MRR. I think i can make the cap which would be 28. I was looking forward to using Power Surge for the first time at level 17 though... i will wait and see what the changes to it, if any, first before i make up my mind

[Hjarki]

I started a fighter bard cleric but didnt feel it was right for me so i switched early on to khopesh SWF fighter cleric strength domain looking at 15/5 split instead. Found a guild early on with no expectations and the ship buffs are a great help.

From playing around with various such builds, some thoughts:

• Tempest and Shintao are simply better at TWF than Fighter, and both of them encourage pure builds. (I know you're not aiming this way, but I'm just trying to be thorough).
• THF is really terrible. The only benefit of THF is glancing blows. Because glancing blows can neither crit nor doublestrike, even fully tricked out THF will do less damage than SWF against anything short of massive armies of enemies.
• SWF really incentivizes Skirmisher (and thus Bard). This is especially true when you're talking about a class (Fighter) where two of the three trees encourage S&B use. Note: You can still use abilities like Skirmisher (albeit not the +10% dodge bonus), Different Tack and En Pointe in Heavy Armor with a Khopesh since they don't require the Swashbuckling stance.
• Heavy Armor is problematic due to the Silent Avenger set bonus. This effectively restricts 'high melee dps' builds to Light/No Armor or Warforged/Bladeforged.
• Stat choice for SWF builds is a bit difficult. If you're just using SWF (no buckler), then your best bet is probably Intelligence - the benefits from stacking hit/damage/Know the Angles tend to outweigh the benefits of going with pure Strength unless you've absolutely required to use Strength (normally for specific heroic-level combat maneuvers). This is true even with Divine Might, whose bonus doesn't start improving your Strength until you're over ~+9 (due to non-stacking with Insightful Strength gear). If you're trying a complex Swashbuckler/Fighter build, you can get Dex, Int or Cha to damage. However, you can only get Dex or Wis to hit with the buckler and you can only get Int or Wis to hit with a non-Finesse main hand weapon. Similarly, you can only get KtA-style abilities with a level of FvS and Wis/Cha, KtA itself or a deep investment into Falconry for Wis. Getting everything lined up involves compromises all over the place.
• Stat choice (Part 2). Splitting a KtA-style ability and your hit/damage stats can work - but the most likely choice would be Dex/Int, which means a 4 stat build (since Dex and Int are the same save stat).
• Critical Multiplier from Focused Wrath has the benefit of improving all your critical multipliers (including a shield), but the penalty of requiring you dump 30+ points and 5 levels into a class you probably wouldn't otherwise take. Divine Champion from War Soul might also provide this benefit, but that's even more questionable.
• Orbs can Shield Bash... but they're not shields. This creates a fair number of non-obvious interactions (some things work, some don't). Orbs aren't particularly good weapons, but with a relatively minor investment in Vanguard you'll still be getting 15% to 20% more attacks than you'd ordinarily get. As attacks they're not great, but they still carry all those additional benefits (such as Sneak Attack, proc chances, etc.) that any attack would have. So while you're probably not going to purposefully make a "Sword & Orb" build, there's very little reason not to carry an orb in your off-hand with a non-Swashbuckler/non-Artificer SWF build. Unfortunately, this also means that you're probably committing yourself to Thunderforged crafting since that's the only way to get any remotely useful melee stats on an Orb.

[unbongwah]

I think it was mentioned in your other thread, but look at ED37's Kensei Warpriest. You don't get much from ftr 13-17 so a deeper cleric splash and/or a third class makes more sense than ftr 15 / cleric 5, IMO.

[Coffey]

From playing around with various such builds, some thoughts:

• Tempest and Shintao are simply better at TWF than Fighter, and both of them encourage pure builds. (I know you're not aiming this way, but I'm just trying to be thorough).
• THF is really terrible. The only benefit of THF is glancing blows. Because glancing blows can neither crit nor doublestrike, even fully tricked out THF will do less damage than SWF against anything short of massive armies of enemies.
• SWF really incentivizes Skirmisher (and thus Bard). This is especially true when you're talking about a class (Fighter) where two of the three trees encourage S&B use. Note: You can still use abilities like Skirmisher (albeit not the +10% dodge bonus), Different Tack and En Pointe in Heavy Armor with a Khopesh since they don't require the Swashbuckling stance.
• Heavy Armor is problematic due to the Silent Avenger set bonus. This effectively restricts 'high melee dps' builds to Light/No Armor or Warforged/Bladeforged.
• Stat choice for SWF builds is a bit difficult. If you're just using SWF (no buckler), then your best bet is probably Intelligence - the benefits from stacking hit/damage/Know the Angles tend to outweigh the benefits of going with pure Strength unless you've absolutely required to use Strength (normally for specific heroic-level combat maneuvers). This is true even with Divine Might, whose bonus doesn't start improving your Strength until you're over ~+9 (due to non-stacking with Insightful Strength gear). If you're trying a complex Swashbuckler/Fighter build, you can get Dex, Int or Cha to damage. However, you can only get Dex or Wis to hit with the buckler and you can only get Int or Wis to hit with a non-Finesse main hand weapon. Similarly, you can only get KtA-style abilities with a level of FvS and Wis/Cha, KtA itself or a deep investment into Falconry for Wis. Getting everything lined up involves compromises all over the place.
• Stat choice (Part 2). Splitting a KtA-style ability and your hit/damage stats can work - but the most likely choice would be Dex/Int, which means a 4 stat build (since Dex and Int are the same save stat).
• Critical Multiplier from Focused Wrath has the benefit of improving all your critical multipliers (including a shield), but the penalty of requiring you dump 30+ points and 5 levels into a class you probably wouldn't otherwise take. Divine Champion from War Soul might also provide this benefit, but that's even more questionable.
• Orbs can Shield Bash... but they're not shields. This creates a fair number of non-obvious interactions (some things work, some don't). Orbs aren't particularly good weapons, but with a relatively minor investment in Vanguard you'll still be getting 15% to 20% more attacks than you'd ordinarily get. As attacks they're not great, but they still carry all those additional benefits (such as Sneak Attack, proc chances, etc.) that any attack would have. So while you're probably not going to purposefully make a "Sword & Orb" build, there's very little reason not to carry an orb in your off-hand with a non-Swashbuckler/non-Artificer SWF build. Unfortunately, this also means that you're probably committing yourself to Thunderforged crafting since that's the only way to get any remotely useful melee stats on an Orb.

A +10 str could be achieved earlier with 18 str starting stat and cleric +2 str from strength domain? So i cant stack strength and or charisma through gears? I was just looking forward to getting strength 8 from stalwart defender at this point haha! I always thought i would be able to add appropriate gear set and i could tailor it to my build. Adding at stat levels is +2 by level 8 Have +1 str now).

If it gets this redonkulous then i guess i wont even bother with a bard swashbuckler build until i have taken the time collect/craft/purchase every thing i will need to make it great.

When i removed bard from my build plans i felt like i could breathe again

I think it was mentioned in your other thread, but look at ED37's Kensei Warpriest. You don't get much from ftr 13-17 so a deeper cleric splash and/or a third class makes more sense than ftr 15 / cleric 5, IMO.

Nope, no mention of EllisDee's build on the other thread. Im not partial to warpriest and i wouldnt waste any more than the 4 AP for divine might. If i had access to the very best long sword or scimatar i might consider it, might, not likely though. Khopesh or dwarven waraxe are so much better and the only weapons i will look at for my current build. khopesh is king for a heavy armor SWF build as far as i can see for now. I will always use fighter kensai and stalwart defender with a melee cleric to carry the builds dps and defense at least at this point.

Edit: cleric 5 was a splash to make the fighter better balanced defensibly and protect from str damage.

This character will change in to a fighter bard composite with a lil splash of something else perhaps favored soul or 5 cleric again in the future when i have the gears/weapons/equipment to make it more viable for me.

Fighter 15 gets me more PRR MRR and power surge at level 17 on a TR build. I dont care about self healing so much and i can use hirelings effectively if i require that. Level 9 cleric strength domain immunity to knockdowns is nice though

I am planning to try a cleric 14/fighter 6 build for heroics to fully use the strength domain in the future.
I would go with a 1 fighter (for haste boost)\19 paladin SWF build before i would use the warpriest tree.

Edit: or Fighter 1 pally 14 and cleric 5 epic build.

[Hjarki]

A +10 str could be achieved earlier with 18 str starting stat and cleric +2 str from strength domain? So i cant stack strength and or charisma through gears? I was just looking forward to getting strength 8 from stalwart defender at this point haha! I always thought i would be able to add appropriate gear set and i could tailor it to my build. Adding at stat levels is +2 by level 8 Have +1 str now).

I tend to automatically think in terms of the late game, where a lot of the early disparities even out. At 30, you will normally deal more damage with an effective 200% stat-to-damage than 150% stat (plus some small additive buffs)-to-damage. The value of focusing on a limited number of stats is also far greater. At 30, you want enhancement/insightful/quality for each stat of concern. At 10? You probably only care about enhancement and your gearing is normally a lot more flexible.

However, I'm not sure 5 Cleric really pays off even in heroic levels. The value in Strength-to-Reflex is really when you're talking about late game, not early game - especially on a non-Evasion build. Not getting Strength drained is more of a QoL issue since it's a relatively rare effect. +2 Strength is nice, but not overwhelmingly powerful. In early game, all those +1 hit/damage with weapon/style/whatever abilities are actually quite a bit more powerful than trying to get the same benefit by boosting stats. As I mentioned above, Divine Might-style abilities are incredibly potent in endgame, where you're repurposing all that effort you put into pushing your main stat to the limits to add to damage. In early game? Much of the time, you'd be better off with Righteous Weapons.

If it gets this redonkulous then i guess i wont even bother with a bard swashbuckler build until i have taken the time collect/craft/purchase every thing i will need to make it great.

It's less a matter of needing every piece of legendary raid gear imaginable than it is you need to put it together carefully and it doesn't necessarily come together until later levels.

A good rule of thumb is that additive bonuses rule the early game and multiplicative bonuses rule the endgame. Swashbuckler heavily emphasizes the multiplicative bonuses over the additive ones.

[Coffey]

However, I'm not sure 5 Cleric really pays off even in heroic levels. The value in Strength-to-Reflex is really when you're talking about late game, not early game - especially on a non-Evasion build. Not getting Strength drained is more of a QoL issue since it's a relatively rare effect. +2 Strength is nice, but not overwhelmingly powerful. In early game, all those +1 hit/damage with weapon/style/whatever abilities are actually quite a bit more powerful than trying to get the same benefit by boosting stats. As I mentioned above, Divine Might-style abilities are incredibly potent in endgame, where you're repurposing all that effort you put into pushing your main stat to the limits to add to damage. In early game? Much of the time, you'd be better off with Righteous Weapons.

To me its to gain any relative bit of damage or defense early on and be happy with what you have accumulated especially on a first life character where part of the fun is finding something that will help your cause. So i like what i have built so far because its the best i could make it with what knowledge i have and the items i have to work with. Most righteous weapons suck, although i used a nice vorpal longsword at level 2, but i am doing well with the khopesh i found seeing some nice crit damage. Although i havent found many so far, funny how that happens. I will always take weapon damage or melee power over a single stat increase except when there is nothing else in an enhancement tree available. +6 str is well worth it for the 3 AP in stalwart defender for example. My current endgame is level 20 so i dont concern myself with level 30 perfection yet.

A good rule of thumb is that additive bonuses rule the early game and multiplicative bonuses rule the endgame. Swashbuckler heavily emphasizes the multiplicative bonuses over the additive ones.

Yes or its an early splash to get some crazy crit bonuses for some otherwise crappy weapons. The more i look at this game the more i like a pure builds for their simplicity.

[Propane]

https://www.ddo.com/forums/showthrea...=1#post6024874


A build I am running on an alt- food for thought....
If the HP stance goes through as is - could drop the PA/Cleave/Great Cleave to go THF / Axe if you wanted to shift more AP around

[unbongwah]

Im not partial to warpriest and i wouldnt waste any more than the 4 AP for divine might.

His build uses 2H weapons and spends zero APs on the Righteous Weapons line. It's all secondary stuff like Wall of Steel, Inflame, and Ameliorating Strike. Or ditch the WP APs and spend them all in Stalwart D. It's a flexible design.

Edit: cleric 5 was a splash to make the fighter better balanced defensibly and protect from str damage.

Ftr 13 & 15 get you nothing apart from BAB; ftr 14 gets you an extra feat and access to Heavy Armor Champion (+12 PRR/MRR). Cleric 6 gets you lvl 6 deity ability like Unyielding Sovereignty; cleric 7/8 gets you 3/4 lvl 4 spell slots (Death Ward, FoM, etc.). So either cleric 6 / ftr 14 or cleric 7-8 / ftr 12 / <splash> 0-1 is superior to cleric 5 / ftr 15.

[Coffey]

A build I am running on an alt- food for thought....
If the HP stance goes through as is - could drop the PA/Cleave/Great Cleave to go THF / Axe if you wanted to shift more AP around

Thanks it looks like a great support character build

I would probably go with out the radiant servant and go with tier 5 kensai instead.

His build uses 2H weapons and spends zero APs on the Righteous Weapons line. It's all secondary stuff like Wall of Steel, Inflame, and Ameliorating Strike. Or ditch the WP APs and spend them all in Stalwart D. It's a flexible design.

Very true. Could change it to SWF or a vanguard for that matter.

Ftr 13 & 15 get you nothing apart from BAB; ftr 14 gets you an extra feat and access to Heavy Armor Champion (+12 PRR/MRR). Cleric 6 gets you lvl 6 deity ability like Unyielding Sovereignty; cleric 7/8 gets you 3/4 lvl 4 spell slots (Death Ward, FoM, etc.). So either cleric 6 / ftr 14 or cleric 7-8 / ftr 12 / <splash> 0-1 is superior to cleric 5 / ftr 15.

Yes level 4 cleric spells are available at cleric level 7 and i like death ward, panacea and cure serious wounds. They are all pretty good.