Melee Survivability Changes - Some First Steps

[Silverleafeon]

The more I think about it, the more it is obvious that some sort of epic shield fighting feat is or should be under development.

The questions are:

"What should it bonus and what type of bonus?"

"AC?"

"Shield AC?"

"PPR?"

"MMR?"

some combination of the above?



Also, we do need Metamagic Feats to scale somehow in Epic and the current Epic fighting feat toggle format lends itself fairly well.


Main questions in my mind is the math and application.
How much bonus universal spellpower will be needed to bring caster to a level where it is comfortable close to other forms of combat?


We will probably see Consecration as the new cocoon. Cocoon gets wipe out pretty quick for anything on the front lines.




Likely the whole charmed situation will be changed to:
"Charmed mobs take the same damage reduction as Allies."
Which leaves the question if Suggested Mobs take the same route.



If we are balancing power groups, then it would be nice to adjust the whole damage scaling in Reaper or at least consider thus.


Currently:

Melee damage is reduced the least by reaper reduction
Ranged damage is reduced more
Caster damage is reduced the most

I realize the whole running away from mobs is factored into thus, but it is not exactly fair and definitely should be examined.

My opinion is that the whole perching thing is a factor in this and technically perching is against the rules of conduct, although Devs keep designing boss fights with places to perch thereby encouraging players to create ranged toons and perch thus thereby defeating the whole "we want to help melee dialog".

[noobodyfool]

Include shield feats but make it excludsive from shield deflection please don't leave vanguard out of the fun.

[noobodyfool]

What next epic dc caster fighting 50% more SP reduces all aasamar and fv self healing to touch range but includes shields?

[wolffboy]

So we're the first steps the last step epic defensive fighting and done?

[Teargiver]

The most obvious way to help melee survive, and I betcha without reading this its been said many times, is to REMOVE THE STUPID SELF HEALING PENALTY. That was stupid to begin with and is the 1st step. DO THIS MOST OBVIOUS OF THINGS AND SEE HOW IT GOES FROM THERE...

But its SSG, so maybe a whole new system of more HP and stuff with the goal of making DDO more and like WoW.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

I don't like this melee buff at ALL. It's just too far away from 3.5 even in its concept.

Instead, boost ALREADY ACCEPTED game mechanics. Healing Amp, Cocoon (and other heal based epic destinies), Epic version of Wand and Scroll Mastery. Give an OPTION for melee to choose these healing abilities. No across the board boosts that give EVERY fighter/barb the same bonus. This is just a BAD idea and kills build options for melees and make that cookie cutter feel more obvious.


This brings melees too close to paladins and rangers and bards that should be able to have a CLEAR ADVANTAGE to their self healing ability.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Isn't that what Unyielding Sentinel --> Tier Five --> Strength of Vitality is for?

Strength of Vitality: Passive Bonus: +10/15/20% Insight bonus to maximum hit points. (Note: the bonus is calculated from hit points ignoring those in the "HP Adjustment" category.)

Move it down to Tier Four and let folks twist it - problem solved. (there is even an open slot for it!)

This is a very very great idea. Make this melee boost A BUILD OPTION.

ANY CHANGE should be optional, not an across the board buff that will take more fun out of the building process and lessen build variety. Building options and class differences are a strong suite of DDO.

[Psiandron]

Having lived with this a while, I still really don't like it.

• It's not enough hp to be meaningful in reaper and in non-reaper conent it's completely unnecssary
• Tanks, even though they have the most hp already are really the ones who need this sort of buff most (again, in reaper content)
• DPS melees would be better served by better ability to buff AC and Dodge(which are damage avoidance. This is mainly about being able to increase dodge cap of the armor, which is fairly low in end-game.) Prr(Damage mitigation) is really of limited helpfulness in the face of the incoming damage and at some point requires divergence from DPS. Hence the reason that monks, even split class ones are generally more successful.
• The reduction of range to touch(about the same as the radius of a consecration circle) for healing spells, which includes rez scrolls btw, hampers the player and the party.
• I also dislike and disagree with SSG's stance on sneaking and mob awareness, but I understand that you guys are pretty adamant on that and why and that you are unlikely to change your views after all this time.

Just my opinion.

Laterz,
Psi

[Nubom70]

It was easy to improve my melee survivability. I stopped playing a monk. Losing 71.4% base "class" damage in heroics, making it "only" 20-25% DPS loss in heroics with BIS wraps (at L19), Yay.
Swopped to a barbarian. My damage, healing, taunt, and HPs went through the roof. Already critting groups for over 30K. My average hit is QUiNTUPLE my monks damage.

Monk's totally useless now for DPS. Maybe if you need 1 damage past life for an actual melee class, it's OK for a joke.

Join Team Barbarian!... At least until they make the monk "sort of" viable again. Because, you know, nerfing an original core class skill is how you fix an epic 29+ issue with one item... with one build.

[Zites]

It was easy to improve my melee survivability. I stopped playing a monk. Losing 71.4% base "class" damage in heroics, making it "only" 20-25% DPS loss in heroics with BIS wraps (at L19), Yay.
Swopped to a barbarian. My damage, healing, taunt, and HPs went through the roof. Already critting groups for over 30K. My average hit is QUiNTUPLE my monks damage.

Monk's totally useless now for DPS. Maybe if you need 1 damage past life for an actual melee class, it's OK for a joke.

Join Team Barbarian!... At least until they make the monk "sort of" viable again. Because, you know, nerfing an original core class skill is how you fix an epic 29+ issue with one item... with one build.

Just so you know Tempest and Assassin are the new META BRA!

GO Macro!

[Nubom70]

Just so you know Tempest and Assassin are the new META BRA!

GO Macro!

Don't forget double-V ranger builds with SA. we're already critting for 142k. I forsee another year of bad decisions, and SSG is going to plow this game into the ground like the Hindenburg.
Been keeping tab, I originally had 97 regular players on my guild/grouping list. It's down to SIX, since they started doing their "class balance tweaks". Lost 17 just from the monk change.

[Zites]

Don't forget double-V ranger builds with SA. we're already critting for 142k. I forsee another year of bad decisions, and SSG is going to plow this game into the ground like the Hindenburg.
Been keeping tab, I originally had 97 regular players on my guild/grouping list. It's down to SIX, since they started doing their "class balance tweaks". Lost 17 just from the monk change.

I lost many more when you got your reaper mechanics, by the way the last few weeks have been vary good to DDO there are over 400 people active on Gland today with 18 LMS

[Robbenklopper]

It was easy to improve my melee survivability. I stopped playing a monk. Losing 71.4% base "class" damage in heroics, making it "only" 20-25% DPS loss in heroics with BIS wraps (at L19), Yay.
Swopped to a barbarian. My damage, healing, taunt, and HPs went through the roof. Already critting groups for over 30K. My average hit is QUiNTUPLE my monks damage.

Monk's totally useless now for DPS. Maybe if you need 1 damage past life for an actual melee class, it's OK for a joke.

Join Team Barbarian!... At least until they make the monk "sort of" viable again. Because, you know, nerfing an original core class skill is how you fix an epic 29+ issue with one item... with one build.

I´m not barb pro, but one Epic is in my stable i actually Play, and probably I play him wrong and his damage-output is not that amazing so i would like to know how to feat- and gear-specc him like you did. My just 3rd life monk alt-toon, who wears my main monks´ gear (who is on a TR), is still better perfoming than my barb. And my main-Monk, doing heroics, does perform Pretty well with no issues like you said. Whatsoever, i really would make my barb a better blaster. HP are 2,6k, HAMP is 340, PRR 200 in LD blitzing, but DPS-wise i feel weak. Just having raged STR 80, just morninglords greataxe and few RL-items (crism, pendant, fallen hero etc) no set Bonus and just 100MP. Improvements and recommendations for a two-handed greataxe barb are very welcome!

[hp1055cm]

So I picked up a Golem's Heart augment in a loot chest and thought I'd go ahead and slot it...
Apparently it is limited to touch range when it procs while in EDF stance.

Lame.

Glad I didn't spend anything to get it.

[Robbenklopper]

So: in the upcoming patch we'll be introducing a few changes …

-lots of stuff


… P.S. We recognize that the general hp boost will be not be sufficient for many builds on the more extreme difficulties, and it's a wheee bit more complicated, hence this is a first step. Once we see how the current meta adjusts to these changes we'll be doing some follow up.

Just out of curiosity, now that it has been 4 months since and the toddler is up on his feet, having done his some first steps, is he in balance and go on for the next some steps or does he stay stunned? I would be happy to read something About coming up next ….

[Sho-sa]

Given the nerf to Monk handwrap cores rather than just dealing with the one epic item at fault...


Given the puke-fest EDF is...


Given that they shoved EDF down our throats in EK tree revamp...


Given that they yanked Reaper mode away from Hound...


I am genuinely afraid of what they might think is a good idea next...

[count_spicoli]

Considering they keep nerfing fighters for no apperant reasons 5hey must think melee are OP. Not sure

[Hawkwier]

Given the nerf to Monk handwrap cores rather than just dealing with the one epic item at fault...


Given the puke-fest EDF is...


Given that they shoved EDF down our throats in EK tree revamp...


Given that they yanked Reaper mode away from Hound...


I am genuinely afraid of what they might think is a good idea next...

Well, EDF has been good for my barb! Not as good as it might have been thanks to the forum whining and lack of Dev backbone in response, but still good.

And it's not shoved down anyone's throat. Don't like it? Switch it off.

The rest of your points I agree with.

[Sho-sa]

3 out of 5 ain't bad! :-)

[Kaboom2112]

What's the next step?

This stance sucks. The HP gained is nice but not enough to be worth the healing range getting nuked from orbit. People used to heal each other in reaper pugs, this stance killed that.

It's beyond stupid.