Melee Survivability Changes - Some First Steps

[KingNite]

I'm sure the person who came up with the idea of ten different reaper settings thought it was a stroke of brilliance because there would be a setting for everyone. But had that person spent two minutes thinking about how fourteen difficulty settings might have the undesirable effect of spreading out an already small population we wouldn't be in this stupid mess,

Their level of disconection from the reality of the game is indeed amusing. It was so easy to see it coming.

[Wipey]

This is probably the worst thought out "fix" for a problem that doesn't exist ( well played, well geared melees in medium or high reaper ).

It will affect crowd control, tanking, hjealing others, class differences and higher reaper - the very difficulty you designed to be "unbeatable".

Get rid of cleaving bosses or dodge bypassing champs if you have to. Update tactical feats maybe.
More hp will only make everything more boring.

[KingNite]

More hp will only make everything more boring.

Honestly I can't think of anything more boring than the current meta of the end game (r8+) if you play a dps . All you have to do is stack your bonuses via PL, gear , reaper trees and whatnot, and then spend all the quest beating helpless mobs who can't even hit back cause if they did they would 1 shot you more often then not. On the hardest dificulties you can't even go toe to toe with 1! single melee mob unless you have a way to CC or instakill it, we not even talking about a group of mobs, it's just ridiculous. All turns to be a matter of numbers and how stacked on power you are; no really much skill required, you just wait for the CC to kick in and then dps helpless mobs, over and over and over. I understand that some people may find it fun, good for them, they can not use the feat, it's a toggle.

[Grace_ana]

I play a lot of different toons, including melee, so:

Rogue assassin and rogue acrobat: won't use this feat, because her spot heals and rezzes are always too important in group. I can't risk wiping the group.
Monk: will probably use, since she doesn't normally throw heals, but will have to jump out and toggle off to rez if necessary. That will suck if she has aggro, which is often.
Bards (swash and warchanter): won't use, because heals and rezzes are too important.
Tempest: probably won't use due to spot healing and rezzing.
Wolf druid: probably won't use due to spot healing and rezzing.
Tank: will probably use for the 5% I guess, depending on whether it is usable or not, because all she cares about is defenses.

Looking at my list, it tells me how often I throw heals and rezzes from various melees, and how few of my melees can benefit from this feat. The only ones that might use it are the ones that don't need it. That's a bad implementation.

[KingNite]

They should get rid of the healing range penalty, makes no sense at all and badly hurts cooperation.

[Kaboom2112]

They should get rid of the healing range penalty, makes no sense at all and badly hurts cooperation.

They really want dedicated healers to make a comeback. Won't happen in a game this unfriendly to alts.

[blerkington]

This is probably the worst thought out "fix" for a problem that doesn't exist ( well played, well geared melees in medium or high reaper ).

It will affect crowd control, tanking, hjealing others, class differences and higher reaper - the very difficulty you designed to be "unbeatable".

Get rid of cleaving bosses or dodge bypassing champs if you have to. Update tactical feats maybe.
More hp will only make everything more boring.

Exactly. All this buff will do is encourage people who aren't properly prepared into higher difficulties. The solution to this imaginary problem is already in the game; gear up, improve your build and practice so you get better.

Even worse, it will mean people using the stance don't even think about looking after their teammates anymore. Put these two things together, and what you have is a liability, not someone you would want to encourage into your group.

It's much like people who play DPS builds running in Unyielding Sentinel. Their survivability gain is the rest of the group's DPS loss. But at least right now those people do actually have the ability to heal other party members. What we are getting doesn't even allow that.

Thanks.

[noobodyfool]

Exactly. All this buff will do is encourage people who aren't properly prepared into higher difficulties. The solution to this imaginary problem is already in the game; gear up, improve your build and practice so you get better.

Even worse, it will mean people using the stance don't even think about looking after their teammates anymore. Put these two things together, and what you have is a liability, not someone you would want to encourage into your group.

It's much like people who play DPS builds running in Unyielding Sentinel. Their survivability gain is the rest of the group's DPS loss. But at least right now those people do actually have the ability to heal other party members. What we are getting doesn't even allow that.

Thanks.

Yea hoping to play with a few more healers and less cc/casters maybe I will get to intim a few more mobs now outside out raids yaaaaaaa tanks are back in style

[LT218]

181 isn't 200.

And light armor users should probably go with Silent Avenger Set, not Adherents.

And my guy doesn't have room on his gear for Quality or Insight bonuses to PRR.

Some people look for any and every excuse as to why they can't do something. The rest just figure out how to do it.

Just because you didn't build for enough PRR doesn't mean it can't be done. Assuming you intended to run that toon in mid and high skull reapers, it just means you built poorly

180 was a conservative case scenario. 200 is easy to hit. I have standing 172 PRR and 44 dodge without Blitz on a 3rd life cloth armor melee DPS toon with exactly 1 epic PRR PL and 0 PDK PLs. 202 PRR with Blitz. 217 in Earth stance instead of Water/Air. 226 w/ 9 PRR from Reaper points. That toon also has around 1.6k HPs in Reaper with a grand total of 14 Reaper AP. Could have added a few more PRR with a few enhancement swaps, but 200ish seems to be good enough for up to R6/7. Am I soloing R6 with it? No way. Am I running in R6-10 groups and "contributing"? Most definitely.

So as a person that really does run mid to high skull reapers successfully on a low PL, non-meta DPS melee build, I still say the HP buff is a bad idea.

Also, DPS melee users should go for BOTH Silent Avenger AND Adherents set bonuses. At least that's what I've done on all my cloth and light armor toons. The fact that you don't is quite telling.

[noobodyfool]

200 is easy to hit. I have standing 172 PRR and 44 dodge without Blitz on a cloth armor DPS melee toon with exactly 1 epic PRR PL and 0 PDK PLs. 202 PRR with Blitz. 217 in Earth stance instead of Water/Air. 226 w/ 9 PRR from Reaper points. That toon also has around 1.6k HPs in Reaper with a grand total of 14 Reaper AP. Could have added a few more PRR with a few enhancement swaps, but 200ish seems to be good enough for up to R6/7. Am I soloing R6 with it

Also, DPS melee users should go for BOTH Silent Avenger AND Adherents set bonuses. At least that's what I've done on all my cloth and light armor toons. The fact that you don't is quite telling.

It is quite telling to the fact that monk is completely OVER POWER and HEAVY ARMOR is completely BROKEN.

Please look at these numbers 226prr 44dodge 1600 HP with EVASION soloing R6 with few reaper points!

This is why we need Armor Up 2,=Heavy Armor +25% AC and MRR

Paid for by the Campaign for
Make HEAVY ARMOR GREAT AGAIN

[KingNite]

They really want dedicated healers to make a comeback. Won't happen in a game this unfriendly to alts.

Yeah it looks like. With so many healing tools available to other classes there is not much point in having a dedicated healer if you run with a decent group ( unless he bring something else to the table like CC or instakills ), except for high skull raids.

[KingNite]

Exactly. All this buff will do is encourage people who aren't properly prepared into higher difficulties. The solution to this imaginary problem is already in the game; gear up, improve your build and practice so you get better.

Even worse, it will mean people using the stance don't even think about looking after their teammates anymore. Put these two things together, and what you have is a liability, not someone you would want to encourage into your group.

I know of many people who are prepared for and run high skulls often and succesfully who welcome this change because they find the current meta boring as hell, not because they can't already beat it.

Also don't you worry much about the newbs not healing you and being dead weigh on high skulls. As it is right now on lama no one will be using it much in high skulls ( unless going solo ); the ammount of hp given ( around 500 at cap ) is not enough to really matter on the highest skulls and the healing range penalty is too punishing.

[LT218]

It is quite telling to the fact that monk is completely OVER POWER and HEAVY ARMOR is completely BROKEN.

Please look at these numbers 226prr 44dodge 1600 HP with EVASION soloing R6 with few reaper points!

This is why we need Armor Up 2,=Heavy Armor +25% AC and MRR

Paid for by the Campaign for
Make HEAVY ARMOR GREAT AGAIN

Any comparable medium and heavy armor build will have more PRR and MRR than that.

Please go troll somewhere else. Seriously, you're being ridiculous at this point.

[noobodyfool]

Any comparable medium and heavy armor build will have more PRR and MRR than that.

Please go troll somewhere else. Seriously, you're being ridiculous at this point.

You can tell lies call me names but I and many others know the truth, do the math heavy armor is obsolete there are no META melee DPS builds using heavy armor that I know of!!!

Armor Up 2 Heavy Armor +25%AC and MRR

[blerkington]

I know of many people who are prepared for and run high skulls often and succesfully who welcome this change because they find the current meta boring as hell, not because they can't already beat it.

Also don't you worry much about the newbs not healing you and being dead weigh on high skulls. As it is right now on lama no one will be using it much in high skulls ( unless going solo ); the ammount of hp given ( around 500 at cap ) is not enough to really matter on the highest skulls and the healing range penalty is too punishing.

Not really seeing your point about why your friends think the current meta will be improved by these changes for high skull players. If they think the HP buff is insignificant and they won't be using the new stance because of the cost of losing the ability to heal at range, how exactly is this an improvement for them?

It's also very disappointing to see how badly the stance seems to be set up for melee/caster builds, and how little acknowledgement there is of that by SSG. How many seconds long is the cooldown for toggling the stance?

Thanks.

[LT218]

You can tell lies call me names but I and many others know the truth, do the math heavy armor is obsolete there are no META melee DPS builds using heavy armor that I know of!!!

Armor Up 2 Heavy Armor +25%AC and MRR

I'd ask you to provide the math to back your statements up but your previous comments on PRR have proven you don't understand how it works, so there's no point in asking.

[noobodyfool]

I'd ask you to provide the math to back your statements up but your previous comments on PRR have proven you don't understand how it works, so there's no point in it.

Your acusations have no merit and futhermore I believe they are driven by denial and deceit.

[LT218]

Your acusations have no merit and futhermore I believe they are driven by denial and deceit.

SMH - you wouldn't know merit if you fell on your head. You lost all credibility on anything you say about PRR with this:

This is why HP is perfect as Torc pointed out prr would have to be crazy high like 500 more prr to have the same effect as 50%HP

But then you doubled down on the failure and got wrecked here with actual math instead of incorrect, unsupported statements like you make:

This is an in incomplete answer as usual your trying to hide the truth.

Lets try this again my toon has 2500 hp and 400 prr 50% make him 3750 with 400 prr with give him __ HP to death at 400 prr

If we replace 50% HP with prr how much would it take to give me the same hp till death I will give you a hint the answer will be a prr number

There are so many fallacies with this math. Let's start with %HP stacking doesn't mean that your 2500 HP melee is going to have 3750 HP unless you happen to not have any sort of defensive stance, racial % HP buff, epic % HP buff or LGS set on. If you have any of these things going and you get a 50% HP buff; you'll end up at less then 3750 HP.

So let's presume for a moment that you actually got to 2,500 HP with no aid from %HP buffs; it's all from items/com/reaper points.

2500 HP at 900 PRR = 25,000 EHP
3750 HP at 400 PRR = 18,750 EHP

So 500 PRR is much more powerful then 50% HP for you.
Let's take this math further

3750/(100/(100+400)) = 18,750 = 2500/(100/(100+650)) = 2500 HP and 650 PRR; so a gain of 250 PRR from what you had before.

As stated; that's for a character with 400 PRR and 2,500 HP with no % bonuses.
Now let's take an example of a different character with 170 PRR and 1,750 HP that includes a 10% HP bonus from aasimar.

(With +250 PRR) 1750 HP and 320 PRR = 7350 EHP
(With +50% HP) 2546 HP and 170 PRR = 6874 EHP

So now with this character; even a +250 PRR buff is worth more then a 50% HP buff. (For this character, a PRR buff of 123 would be much closer to +50% HP).

[noobodyfool]

SMH - you wouldn't know merit if you fell on your head. You lost all credibility on anything you say about PRR with this: :

Overstatement is an act of stating something more profoundly than it actually is, in order to make the point more serious or important or beautiful. In literature, writers use overstatement as a literary technique for the sake of humor, and for laying emphasis on a certain point.

That's all for today

[redoubt]

They really want dedicated healers to make a comeback. Won't happen in a game this unfriendly to alts.

I quit playing my healer when it became obvious that being on the TR train and building a super character was the thing to do. Now my healer is so far back there is no point in trying to get him up to speed....