Melee Survivability Changes - Some First Steps

[LT218]

Do you realize most can't hit those numbers?

Are you sure about that?

Even cloth armor builds can hit 180+ PRR without too much trouble if they don't dump defensive feats and APs. If they're planning on running reaper, they most definitely shouldn't be dumping defensive stuff.

• 50 - Enhancement bonus - RL gear
• 24 - Insightful bonus - RL gear
• 12 - Quality bonus - RL gear
• 20 - Adherents of the Mist set bonus
• 10 - average from mythic bonuses on various gear
• 6 - 2 tiers of Reaper APs
• 9 - 3 epic/PDK PLs
• 20 - Heroic enhancement trees
• 30 - Master's Blitz

That gives a total of 181 PRR from a pretty reasonable assumption of gear, PLs, and APs on a cloth armor build without any intentional min/maxing for Reaper. Light armor would add 20-30 to that depending on BAB.

Anyone wanting to run a low PL toon in cloth or light armor in high skull reaper should obviously prioritize PRR and bit more and should be able to crack 200 without sacrificing too much in other areas assuming the build is good.

[KingNite]

There are so many fallacies with this math. Let's start with %HP stacking doesn't mean that your 2500 HP melee is going to have 3750 HP unless you happen to not have any sort of defensive stance, racial % HP buff, epic % HP buff or LGS set on. If you have any of these things going and you get a 50% HP buff; you'll end up at less then 3750 HP.

So let's presume for a moment that you actually got to 2,500 HP with no aid from %HP buffs; it's all from items/com/reaper points.

2500 HP at 900 PRR = 25,000 EHP
3750 HP at 400 PRR = 18,750 EHP

So 500 PRR is much more powerful then 50% HP for you.
Let's take this math further

3750/(100/(100+400)) = 18,750 = 2500/(100/(100+650)) = 2500 HP and 650 PRR; so a gain of 250 PRR from what you had before.

As stated; that's for a character with 400 PRR and 2,500 HP with no % bonuses.
Now let's take an example of a different character with 170 PRR and 1,750 HP that includes a 10% HP bonus from aasimar.

(With +250 PRR) 1750 HP and 320 PRR = 7350 EHP
(With +50% HP) 2546 HP and 170 PRR = 6874 EHP

So now with this character; even a +250 PRR buff is worth more then a 50% HP buff. (For this character, a PRR buff of 123 would be much closer to +50% HP).

Of course +100% PRR > +50% HP. But would +50% PRR > 50% HP? Not always. Depends a lot on your base HP and PRR. If you base PRR is low but your HP high your better with the +50% PRR but if your PRR is high and your HP low you are better with more HP, in general.

It is good to keep in mind too that PRR only afects physical damage while HP all types. PRR has diminishing returns HP not.

Considering that dps melees, if well build and geared, have already very good PRR values ( 200+ ), the highest in the game of all playstyles ( except tank ), and considering that over 200 the diminishing retuns of investing further in PRR are already quite considerable, I think most melees would be better served with more HP than with more PRR, as long as we are talking about the same % increase.

[Lauf]

Thanks for the feedback so far, we'll have to ponder it. A few things:

- This is not meant to be on during situations when a spellcasting melee would be casting spells on other players. So if you need to heal other players, you shouldn't be using this. If you are spot healing or buffing, this isn't for you.

Hi,

I welcome the proposed change, however as someone who enjoys playing a melee cleric, this seems like another step into shoe-horning builds into being strictly melee, or strictly not-melee.

I feel that tying the effectiveness of this feat to the amount of melee feats one has was the right direction to go down, rather than negatively impacting your other abilities.

Another less destructive penalty could be longer cooldowns, like the one associated with defensive stance.

[Selvera]

Even cloth armor builds can hit 180+ PRR without too much trouble...

• Best in slot Enhacement/insightful/quality PRR/set bonus
  +10 average mythic bonuses
  Reaper AP spending
  Epic pastlives
  Highest PRR ED
  Heroic enhancements

That gives a total of 181 PRR on a cloth armor build without any intentional min/maxing for Reaper. Light armor would add 20-30 to that depending on BAB.

prioritize PRR and bit more and should be able to crack 200 without sacrificing too much in other areas assuming the build is good.

Rogues can't get 20-30 more depending on BAB because they swap out the +20 PRR for iron skin for a maximum of +6 PRR from assassin; if they even go T5's assassin. So they're netting more like +0 to +10 over monks. Rangers could reasonably get as much PRR as monks from enhancement trees; and have +BAB to prr on top. I certainly wouldn't consider +10 mythic to be an "average" for gear until someone's spent some time grinding it out. And pastlives being required is a pretty big no-no for trying to argue that effort isn't required. Some people take 3 days to get a pastlife, some people take a year to get one.

Now that I've said that 180+ PRR on a light armor build isn't exactly easy to achieve, there is merit to saying said builds shouldn't be considered high-reaper ready if they haven't gotten enough prr. Reaper was designed for the vets and having vets have an advantage due to pastlives/grinding gear/reaper points is somewhat expected.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Funnily enough, the more I think about this, the weirder it gets.

I presume this is supposed to be coming down to help those that don't already run r7ish end game content to catch up to those that do.

But a straight % increase is going to give those with more, more. It won't fix in any way the disparity between the different groups.

A standard R7-10 light melee build with 1700-2000 HP will get 850-1000 HP approximately, or 425-500. This will solidly push them into the 2500-3000 HP range. While those with less, will get less. And the gap will further increase as those that got more will need a higher difficulty, and those below will probably stay behind. For comparison, most heavy melee DPS builds are pushing 275-300 prr and 2500-3000 HP right now.

Winners:

Barbarians: With the DR fix, and the % increase design of this buff, Barbarians look to be the ones to solidly pull ahead. The combination of the DR + HP buff will most likely make a well geared Barbarian extremely tough.

Light Melee: Light melee that don't have any % HP increases will heavily benefit from this too. They would get to substantially increase their HP at no cost other than possible cross-healing capabilities. These buffs will close the gap immensely with the heavy melee fighters who are unable to take advantage of this.

Those With More: Obviously, the players with more, will get more benefit from this.

Losers:

Fighters: Fighters will probably be the worst off from these changes. Already they are unable to use Power Surge in conjunction with Prowess, which is a huge hamstring considering that one of the best T5 abilities in the Kensai tree is rendered useless by the all powerful, all encompassing Prowess set. Now they cant gain more benefit in the heavy frontline melee role due to this not stacking with their stance. Its basically a kick in the nuts while they're down.

Hybrid Builds: Support hybrid builds are also going to take a hit from this. Torc alluded to a reaper meta change, presumably an increase in difficulty, which will hit those that have to choose between staying alive and doing DPS over supporting the team. I think this will eventually lead to a homogenization of melee builds and reduce the teamwork that reaper is supposed to inspire.

Tanks: This will probably eliminate the need/usefulness of tanks in party settings for the most part. Barbarians will probably take over that role and be able to handle and encounter up to R10 with varying degrees of success. Tanks will most likely only be needed for reaper raids, at least until reaper potentially gets changed.

This just appears to be a badly thought out and arbitrary power jump that nobody really needs. It will further blur the lines between the classes, and honestly, hurts those that need it most.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Rogues can't get 20-30 more depending on BAB because they swap out the +20 PRR for iron skin for a maximum of +6 PRR from assassin; if they even go T5's assassin. So they're netting more like +0 to +10 over monks. Rangers could reasonably get as much PRR as monks from enhancement trees; and have +BAB to prr on top. I certainly wouldn't consider +10 mythic to be an "average" for gear until someone's spent some time grinding it out. And pastlives being required is a pretty big no-no for trying to argue that effort isn't required. Some people take 3 days to get a pastlife, some people take a year to get one.

A rogue with T5 assassin could expect to get roughly +11 to +18 depending on how much they wanted to take from VKF (Mist Stalker gives +3 for 4 enhancements)

A rogue that speccs for T5 VKF would be getting +12 passive from Mist Stalker, and have Mist Stalker V for a +30 PRR boost with a 1/3 uptime/downtime ratio.

[Selvera]

A rogue with T5 assassin could expect to get roughly +11 to +18 depending on how much they wanted to take from VKF (Mist Stalker gives +3 for 4 enhancements)

A rogue that speccs for T5 VKF would be getting +12 passive from Mist Stalker, and have Mist Stalker V for a +30 PRR boost with a 1/3 uptime/downtime ratio.

And a rogue with T5 thief acrobat falls solidly outside of the high reaper endgame meta it appears. (For more reasons then just prr)

Either way; all options for rogue PRR is less then ranger/monk and rogue would only have slightly higher PRR then monk after you take the PRR from light armor into account.

And any way you look at it; PRR is the wrong way to add bonus surviability to melees, and I agree with Torc's reasons for using HP instead. I just disagree with him as to how much; when (well; he said he's in no rush so we might agree there) and what tradeoffs to make while getting that extra HP.

[LT218]

And any way you look at it; PRR is the wrong way to add bonus surviability to melees, and I agree with Torc's reasons for using HP instead. I just disagree with him as to how much; when (well; he said he's in no rush so we might agree there) and what tradeoffs to make while getting that extra HP.

Really disagree with some of your analysis on the ease or difficulty of getting 180+ PRR on any toon built for high skull reapers, but not enough to debate it.

This however, is incorrect. Giving more HPs to melee as a %/scaling bonuses will only serve to widen the gulf between the end-gamers and the newer and casual players. End-gamer DPS melee are already running with 2k+ HPs while new players have 1k or so. That means end-gamers will gain twice as many HPs as the new players, which means the gap between new and end-game gets larger. Really bad idea that will just further segment the reaper crowd from the casuals.

In this regard, a flat +400 HP feat would be more effective than a scaling %.

[Paladin_of_Power]

I don't like this idea at all. The sheer number of provisos and exclusions involved should be a flashing neon sign that this is the wrong direction.


Ultimately the problem with balance is due to kiting - melee characters get hit 10x more than ranged ones do, and in effort to make mobs non-trivial to those ranged characters in the rare case they actually *do* manage to hit them, they are designed to do lethal (1 or 2-shot) damage. This creates a bad situation of spiky survivability for just about everyone.


The desired fix here is not a clunky buff to melee hp, but to provide mobs with more (or any whatsoever) tools to combat kiting.

Give them Charge abilities. Maybe even Dire Charge in Legendary. Give them long jump abilities, like Shadar-kai have. Give them teleport/blinkstep abilities like Bearded Devils have (those guys are pretty effective at dealing damage to would-be kiters).

Give them "get over here!" abilities. Chain/rope lassos for physical types. Bigby's Hands spells for caster-types. This would largely solve the issue of perch spots as well, which seems to be a high priority for you guys.

Give them root abilities. We have thrown nets in the game, let mobs have some of them.

Or if all of that is too complicated, just give melee mobs a +50% movement speed action boost clickie.


After you get melee mobs to a place where they can actually hit ranged characters more than 1x per minute, then you can scale back their damage to non-1-shot levels. And they will be dangerous to everyone.

I do like these suggestions...a lot..... but my first idea to fixing kiting, seeing that you are running backwards, was to trip and fall. Then get swarmed. But that doesn't aid the melee character. Perhaps add to the reaper tree an enhancement to increase PRR, AC and HP based on # of melee levels.

[Shadow_Jumper]

Either way; all options for rogue PRR is less then ranger/monk and rogue would only have slightly higher PRR then monk after you take the PRR from light armor into account.

Considering rogue is one of the highest dps classes, that’s the trade off. Massive single target dps, low survivability.

However, one of the key facets of rogue survivability, stealth, has been broken every since reaper came out, and even before then too. And instead of looking into various mechanics that enable skill when playing in reaper (stealth, tactical feats, tactical enhancements), SSG will just throw HP at it.

This buff gives the massive DPS builds too much survivability, and further leaves the face tankers too far behind.

[Chacka_DDO]

Don't get me wrong if we get this change as it is announced now I have to deal with it and it is for sure not the doom of DDO but I'm skeptical that this is the right way to achieve the announced goals.

- One of the reasons we are considering this change is to address the community's concern that melee are not able to compete in more difficult content with their spellcasting and ranged-using friends. If there is a larger belief that this is not the case, we'd love to hear that.

I just took this quote because it says quite clearly the developer team wants to address a general problem melee characters have because they have to stay close to the enemy most times and therefore they can not avoid the damage like a caster/archer can when he kites or stand on a safe spot.

From my understanding, this change is something supposed by the development team to help melee in general.
But let's see for whom this change seems to be made...
It is quite clear that you don't want to help archers or casters who kill monsters with there spells.
And you also don't want to help healers.
But you want to help melee who stand most of the time in melee range of monsters, no?
But you lock out any build that is able to cast spells because touch range for every spell is a quite harsh restriction, so it is not for the build like war priests or similar.
And to make it even shorter since in reaper everyone is basically expected to heal each other it is also not made for any melee who plays in reaper difficulty.
Some say you can heal others, you have just only to stand close to them but this is clearly not very practicable, this comes most likely from persons who don't have really much experience in aiding others in combat on reaper difficulty.
And also a bit thought food for those who think it is no problem, do you expect anyone (including yourself) now to start to run after someone who demands a heal especially when he maybe runs already away from a monster to avoid the damage because he is almost dead?
Maybe a quite hilarious imagination if you would not be serious at this...
It is even now already sometimes a mess to heal others when they suddenly are blocked by an object after you start your cure/heal/raise etc.
And even if you a player who don't heal others even in reaper difficulty (for reasons only they know) it is nothing for you if you are a fighter or paladin who uses another stance for an HP buff.

So who is left out of my sight, for whom is this change beneficial?
Basically only builds who have lay on hands or healing hands available or players who don't want to aid their fellows anyway.
And of course, Barbarians because they cannot use any spells while raging.

So what is the point to do such a change at all?

I just hope you are at least open for other ideas that not including your radical limitations.

My suggestion was to see that we have basically already something like this Epic Defensive Fighting, it just only needs to work it out.
If you take feats for your melee fighting styles they only activate if you use the right weapons and the right feats.
Therefore you just only need to enhance the already existing combat styles.
This is a lot less work and most likely with better effects.
And it is also not that far from your annonced idea.
But sometimes less is more!
There is only one case that is not covered by this idea out of my understanding and this is a caster who takes these feats and don't plan to go in melee combat anyhow.
A caster who would invest in 4 feats that are not useful for his casting would get the full hp bonus.
But such a caster would lose 4 useful feats with this and therefore this HP win would be at least partially balanced.
So the question is, is such a player who build such a caster really a problem?
And to cover this relatively small problem it would maybe make sense to introduce a combat style for casters without an HP boost but with another attractive boost for them maybe a % spell points pool buff.

Just as an example how it would work for a ranger (some asked for it in this thread).
A ranger gets almost all two weapon fighter feats automatically, therefore if he equips two weapons the combat style Greater Two Weapon Fighting would activate and with it e.g. a 15% hp boost and if he takes the Perfect Two Weapon Fighting feat he gets 20% hp boost for his fighting in melee.
If he now changes to a bow, the combat style buff for melee power is instantly removed and with it the 20% hp boost.
No additional restrictions need and with a lot less work to implement...
And it would work automatically without additional annoying clicking and as the developers say, this new feature for melee is not supposed to turned of and on manually and frequently.

[Kilgrave]

As Torc said "first steps", It's all preliminary info, and staff knows the caster vs melee factions are going to come out swinging.

Lol

[whoolsey]

I no longer understand this game.
I used to run melees but switched to ranged half a year ago.
My rog mechanic is doing great in reaper, monsters are dumb as bricks.
Buff or no buff, i'm safe on top far away or d-door
I'm ok with changes, tanks are rare but loads of monks and barbs die a lot.
They live, i do more sneak attack damage.

Funnily enough, the more I think about this, the weirder it gets.

I presume this is supposed to be coming down to help those that don't already run r7ish end game content to catch up to those that do.

But a straight % increase is going to give those with more, more. It won't fix in any way the disparity between the different groups.

A standard R7-10 light melee build with 1700-2000 HP will get 850-1000 HP approximately, or 425-500. This will solidly push them into the 2500-3000 HP range. While those with less, will get less. And the gap will further increase as those that got more will need a higher difficulty, and those below will probably stay behind. For comparison, most heavy melee DPS builds are pushing 275-300 prr and 2500-3000 HP right now.

Winners:

Barbarians: With the DR fix, and the % increase design of this buff, Barbarians look to be the ones to solidly pull ahead. The combination of the DR + HP buff will most likely make a well geared Barbarian extremely tough.

Light Melee: Light melee that don't have any % HP increases will heavily benefit from this too. They would get to substantially increase their HP at no cost other than possible cross-healing capabilities. These buffs will close the gap immensely with the heavy melee fighters who are unable to take advantage of this.

Those With More: Obviously, the players with more, will get more benefit from this.

Losers:

Fighters: Fighters will probably be the worst off from these changes. Already they are unable to use Power Surge in conjunction with Prowess, which is a huge hamstring considering that one of the best T5 abilities in the Kensai tree is rendered useless by the all powerful, all encompassing Prowess set. Now they cant gain more benefit in the heavy frontline melee role due to this not stacking with their stance. Its basically a kick in the nuts while they're down.

Hybrid Builds: Support hybrid builds are also going to take a hit from this. Torc alluded to a reaper meta change, presumably an increase in difficulty, which will hit those that have to choose between staying alive and doing DPS over supporting the team. I think this will eventually lead to a homogenization of melee builds and reduce the teamwork that reaper is supposed to inspire.

Tanks: This will probably eliminate the need/usefulness of tanks in party settings for the most part. Barbarians will probably take over that role and be able to handle and encounter up to R10 with varying degrees of success. Tanks will most likely only be needed for reaper raids, at least until reaper potentially gets changed.

This just appears to be a badly thought out and arbitrary power jump that nobody really needs. It will further blur the lines between the classes, and honestly, hurts those that need it most.

Except for 1 barb on server that is always a barb and only dies in r5+ raids, the rest die all the time, they welcome to get hp, i think they die anyway. Even with new DR
What is light melee? Rog assasin? Swash build? Good, never see them in reaper

Fighter get cheap 25prr, +3save and 20%hp for 13 points, has no impact on dps and at lv 30 gives more hp then barb with 2 lines of maxed cores. They can drop 13 enh points and have hp buff too.
If is true that r6+ gets harder, grab 50% hp and thank torc on bare knees, gift horse is free, much better then complain later
Hybrid, want best of 2worlds in hardest setting, speciallyse of go home is message i get from reaper .
Tank get almast 2times prr and big mrr, also triple the ac due to pally/fighter dip, why tank not take both stances and switch?
I liked 2hf feats on dwarf tank long ago.

Really disagree with some of your analysis on the ease or difficulty of getting 180+ PRR on any toon built for high skull reapers, but not enough to debate it.

This however, is incorrect. Giving more HPs to melee as a %/scaling bonuses will only serve to widen the gulf between the end-gamers and the newer and casual players. End-gamer DPS melee are already running with 2k+ HPs while new players have 1k or so. That means end-gamers will gain twice as many HPs as the new players, which means the gap between new and end-game gets larger. Really bad idea that will just further segment the reaper crowd from the casuals.

In this regard, a flat +400 HP feat would be more effective than a scaling %.

What hp get 50%buff? Only base hp, or 50% on max hp? So;
Fighter ( 1000 base hpX10%asmar raceX epic 20%X32%greensteal+68 false life+ 15 enh 1000 leg aform) X50%hp buff
Fighter (1000 base hpX50%hp buff) X10%asmar raceX epic 20% X32%greensteal+68 false life+ 15 enh 1000 leg aform

I don't understand from torc post.

Edit, power surge is tier 5 kensai?? No lv 12 kensai core?

[korgzz_bloodaxe]

Really disagree with some of your analysis on the ease or difficulty of getting 180+ PRR on any toon built for high skull reapers, but not enough to debate it.

I like your idea about the fixed amount i.e. 400HP.

I'm not sure the point of debating about achieving 180PRR though when talking about r10 content. It is pretty standard to be hit for 2k-7k damage (depending on quest) on r10 with significantly more PRR. It might give you the ability to survive a glancing blow and that is about it.

On r10 White Plume a normal mob hits for 2-3k and the crab does far more! This is on a light melee (my barbarian with over 250PRR). I've had a double tap from the lobsters in excess of 6k.

i.e. the below are non-champs:
(Combat): Ogre Brute hit you for a total of 2,049 points of bludgeon damage after 30 were blocked by damage reduction.
(Combat): Ogre Brute hit you for a total of 2,130 points of bludgeon damage after 30 were blocked by damage reduction.

400 extra hits (though I would prefer +25% HP) would mean I would have a much better chance of being able to survive for long enough to dart out of melee range.

What hp get 50%buff? Only base hp, or 50% on max hp?

The latest post from Torc indicates that it is likely to be +25% not +50%. It may still be tweaked further. I agree with the concept of making it more benefical for the people who need it the most i.e. those without 100+ past lives. That is probably best achieved by making it a static amount.

[whoolsey]

I like your idea about the fixed amount i.e. 400HP.

I'm not sure the point of debating about achieving 180PRR though when talking about r10 content. It is pretty standard to be hit for 2k-7k damage (depending on quest) on r10 with significantly more PRR. It might give you the ability to survive a glancing blow and that is about it.

On r10 White Plume a normal mob hits for 2-3k and the crab does far more! This is on a light melee (my barbarian with over 250PRR). I've had a double tap from the lobsters in excess of 6k.

i.e. the below are non-champs:
(Combat): Ogre Brute hit you for a total of 2,049 points of bludgeon damage after 30 were blocked by damage reduction.
(Combat): Ogre Brute hit you for a total of 2,130 points of bludgeon damage after 30 were blocked by damage reduction.

400 extra hits (though I would prefer +25% HP) would mean I would have a much better chance of being able to survive for long enough to dart out of melee range.



The latest post from Torc indicates that it is likely to be +25% not +50%. It may still be tweaked further. I agree with the concept of making it more benefical for the people who need it the most i.e. those without 100+ past lives. That is probably best achieved by making it a static amount.

Ahhh, too many pages, i read first 2

[redoubt]

Are you sure about that?

Even cloth armor builds can hit 180+ PRR without too much trouble if they don't dump defensive feats and APs. If they're planning on running reaper, they most definitely shouldn't be dumping defensive stuff.

• 50 - Enhancement bonus - RL gear
• 24 - Insightful bonus - RL gear
• 12 - Quality bonus - RL gear
• 20 - Adherents of the Mist set bonus
• 10 - average from mythic bonuses on various gear
• 6 - 2 tiers of Reaper APs
• 9 - 3 epic/PDK PLs
• 20 - Heroic enhancement trees
• 30 - Master's Blitz

That gives a total of 181 PRR from a pretty reasonable assumption of gear, PLs, and APs on a cloth armor build without any intentional min/maxing for Reaper. Light armor would add 20-30 to that depending on BAB.

Anyone wanting to run a low PL toon in cloth or light armor in high skull reaper should obviously prioritize PRR and bit more and should be able to crack 200 without sacrificing too much in other areas assuming the build is good.

Ranger?

Assassin Rogue has it a little tougher. I would however, be interested in seeing Shadow's breakdown if its from his assassin.

If you run the assassin gear set instead you end up more like:

• 50 - Enhancement bonus - RL gear
• 24 - Insightful bonus - RL gear
• 12 - Quality bonus - RL gear
  
• 10 - average from mythic bonuses on various gear
• 6 - 2 tiers of Reaper APs
• 9 - 3 epic/PDK PLs
• 6 - Heroic enhancement trees
  
• 24 - light armor

So that is 139 in shadowdancer...

[Iriale]

This however, is incorrect. Giving more HPs to melee as a %/scaling bonuses will only serve to widen the gulf between the end-gamers and the newer and casual players. End-gamer DPS melee are already running with 2k+ HPs while new players have 1k or so. That means end-gamers will gain twice as many HPs as the new players, which means the gap between new and end-game gets larger. Really bad idea that will just further segment the reaper crowd from the casuals.

In this regard, a flat +400 HP feat would be more effective than a scaling %.

It's what I've said several times already. I do not understand why designers are so insistent on adding so many % scaling lately. Sometimes it is an adequate system, but when it is used in excess, monstrosities are achieved...

And I really do not understand who they are trying to help with this proposal. High reaper players? Well, they are impacting a lot outside of high reaper. All melees? They are excluding from the bonus fighters / paladins with defensive stance and melee gishs. The characters that really have survival problems in melee in reaper? Well, they are giving them a minuscule bonus when using a %, while the powemelees are receiving many more hps.

It is a first proposal, so I would encourage Torc to design it in another way, and one of the first changes in my opinion should be to change it to flat-bonus. Does he want to give 400 hps? Give them as is to all the melees. Does he want to give 1000? Give them as is to all meeles, not only to powergamers. But give 100 hps to the weakest melees and 1000 to the strongest does not make sense.

[KingNite]

But give 100 hps to the weakest melees and 1000 to the strongest does not make sense.

Why not? The weakest are going to run low difficulty so they don't really need 1000 extra hp. The strongest are already running r7+ so 100hp it's like nothing for them.
Also as the weakest players progress, improve, get better gear, past lifes, etc; the diference is gona get shaved.

[Iriale]

Why not? The weakest are going to run low difficulty so they don't really need 1000 extra hp. The strongest are already running r7+ so 100hp it's like nothing for them.
Also as the weakest players progress, improve, get better gear, past lifes, etc; the diference is gona get shaved.

because there is currently a difference in power between brutal characters, and that is creating balance problems. It should not be further aggravated

Because the strongest melees are not having problems in R7 +, and really the problem is having characters with less investment. If the designers do not want to help the group that really needs help, then this buff is not only not necessary, it is harmful.

Because it is a fairer system to give a fixed bonus. The strongest characters lose nothing, they receive exactly the same as the weakest. There is no reason to take your hands to your head.

Why do you want weaker characters to be harmed?

[KingNite]

Because the strongest melees are not having problems in R7 +, and really the problem is having characters with less investment. If the designers do not want to help the group that really needs help, then this buff is not only not necessary, it is harmful.

Because it is a fairer system to give a fixed bonus. The strongest characters lose nothing, they receive exactly the same as the weakest. There is no reason to take your hands to your head.

Why do you want weaker characters to be harmed?

First I didn't say I want weak characters harmed that's your interpretation. Characters with less investment do not belong to high reaper, and if they struggle in there it is normal. Giving them huge, fixed, free amounts of HP so they can keep up ( or try to keep up) with the ubers even when they are clearly not ready is the worst they could do. If you did that they would find the difficulties for which they are ready suddenly become way too easy while still failing to keep up with the ubers.

You say that the strongest melees are not having problesm in r7+. Not all strong meless agree with you on that.