Melee Survivability Changes - Some First Steps

[noobodyfool]

"Facts are not debatable>" Of course they are. Facts are just something that has been proven to be true, but they can still be disproven later. The history of science is just one very good example of this.

Those who call what is theory fact and what is fact theory lack humility, facts never change they draw there authority from a higher power where as theory is finite and fragil as humanity.

As this is just a game draw your conclusions the devs know the facts they have stated them, their just trying to find the way of lest resistance to implement them because money is the bottom line.
They may decide against making any changes but it will not change the facts.

[LT218]

"At least half the player base" .... What stats are you using to state that?

Stats pulled from his posterior.

Kind of funny how he goes on and on about facts, then attempts to state a made up stat as a fact.

[noobodyfool]

Stats pulled from his posterior.

Kind of funny how he goes on and on about facts, then attempts to state a made up stat as a fact.

The score is 60 to 47 with 19 donuts and most of the folks interested in debating are elite power gamers can u imagine if we could have everyone vote at login for everything would be so KOOL

[K_9]

The big problem that I see with this thread is that you classifying the new buffs as the same type as tank hp buffs.

The biggest problem that I see with reaper is an encounter a red named boss that CC does not work upon.

For example, players so far in my experience have the most problem with the red named crab boss in the new white plum quest.
A place where tanks would be needed.

Another example is Slaver's part III end fight having a lot of deaths due to the red named that cannot be CCed.

Tanks give up so much in feats, epic destinies and gear already.
Excluding this group from a new melee defensive buff makes no sense, as it reduces the role/class difference between melee dps and tanks.

Given that Class/Role difference is one of the most important points of creating a new class, one could conclude that a developer intent on reducing class/role distinction is actually working countproductively against the typical goal of the design teams.

It is understandable that a Developer might be hesitant to grant a tank a free 50% hp buff of any sort, but perhaps that is because the proposed buff is too large?


One of the more popular Druid build combines a level of Tank-like ness simply because raids often lack tank toons.
You can find Gingerspices' thread in the druid section, and I understand the philosophy because I have often filled tank type roles with many different classes including Sorcerer for lack of any toon available during filling a raid.


In summary, suggesting you go less big with the hp buffs - think 2-3% per feat group including the shield feats in your feat list and making the buff untyped instead of competence. Also, consider removing touch spell range and replacing with the wording of "Spells have three times their normal cooldown when this mode is active."

This is actually an interesting idea when I read this. Definitely a much improved version of what was initially proposed to us. The main concern I could potentially have about this is wolf/bear druids. They could suddenly find half of their abilities on exceptionally long cool downs.

[Grace_ana]

The score is 60 to 47 with 19 donuts and most of the folks interested in debating are elite power gamers can u imagine if we could have everyone vote at login for everything would be so KOOL

Not to confuse you with facts, but the poll is actually 32 Yes votes for the proposed changes, 47 No votes; and 28 Maybe votes. The Maybe votes aren't either yes or no (I voted maybe myself), because it means they aren't on board with the suggestions and that "changes are needed." What those changes would have to be can be pretty drastic. So basically, the vast majority of the poll is people who are not agreeing with this proposal as presented.

[Niminae]

This is step 1 more steps to come with fighter and pally tweeks.

Source? You're accepting a broken design based upon your hopes that it gets fixed later somehow. I'd rather see a good design implemented which doesn't need additional changes at some vague point in the future which can and will be bumped down the priority list as a new expansion and the regular quarterly updates need attention.


Ah, never mind. I see in your very next post you completely reversed yourself. I must come to the conclusion that engaging you is pointless.

[noobodyfool]

Not to confuse you with facts, but the poll is actually 32 Yes votes for the proposed changes, 47 No votes; and 28 Maybe votes. The Maybe votes aren't either yes or no (I voted maybe myself), because it means they aren't on board with the suggestions and that "changes are needed." What those changes would have to be can be pretty drastic. So basically, the vast majority of the poll is people who are not agreeing with this proposal as presented.

There is at least half the player base that understands that melee should have more HP.

This is the statement and it is the fact that a least half the players by vote yay or maybe melee need more HP than they currently have.

It is common place that melee have more HP than casters and it makes common sense that they would in relation to the damage they sustain in battle.

Through my experience melee outside of static groups and elite power gamers struggle in low to mid reaper more than casters/range as well as new players playing melee with out self heals trying to solo because no vets play en eh

By the way I'm all for nerfing caster/range survivability if we don't buff melee survivability. It would solve the power creep that many claim to be concerned with.

[SirValentine]

You don't need this "balancer" effect to work on every damage type. In fact, you kind of don't want it to.

You want the new balancer mechanic to help specifically against the "more attacks that melee can't really dodge compared to ranged." The vast majority of those are physical melee attacks.

This is a great point. I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your proposal, but thank you for clearly identifying this issue.

[SirValentine]

This is the statement and it is the fact that a least half the players by vote yay or maybe melee need more HP than they currently have.

As someone who voted "maybe" because the proposal needs changes, you don't get to claim that means I think melee need more HP.

So, even with the unrepresentative nature of a random internet poll, you still have to try to lie about the results? Only the "yes" votes are on your side. Are the "maybe" votes? Well, maybe. Or maybe not.

[noobodyfool]

This is a great point. I'm not going to comment on the specifics of your proposal, but thank you for clearly identifying this issue.

This is why HP is perfect as Torc pointed out prr would have to be crazy high like 500 more prr to have the same effect as 50%HP

[LT218]

This is why HP is perfect as Torc pointed out prr would have to be crazy high like 500 more prr to have the same effect as 50%HP

LOL. You just proved you have zero understanding of the game. After this statement, people really should just ignore your posts as the made up junk they are.

[noobodyfool]

As someone who voted "maybe" because the proposal needs changes, you don't get to claim that means I think melee need more HP.

So, even with the unrepresentative nature of a random internet poll, you still have to try to lie about the results? Only the "yes" votes are on your side. Are the "maybe" votes? Well, maybe. Or maybe not.

This is not a lie most of the maybe folks don't like the heal party members penalty and not giving it to tanks primary.

Unrepresenitive is right theres about 90% of player base not on the forums.

And there's 90% of the uber players represented in these forums lol.

So many others don't want to be shunned from you dailies reapers and you raids so they stay quite so I have to speak for them.

[noobodyfool]

LOL. You just proved you have zero understanding of the game. After this statement, people really should just ignore your posts as the made up junk they are.

What u of all people don't recognize exaggerated stats come on now LOL

Hey you know so much tell us the break down if I have 400prr with 2500 HP how much prr would it take to equal 50% Buff 1250 HP?


This would put me at 3750 hp with 400prr

What would 2500 hp with 900prr =?

[Grace_ana]

I'm done debating increasingly ridiculous claims and demands by a whopping two forum posters. I've made my points, as have others, and I stand by all of them. In the interest of not spamming the heck out of this thread, I'm walking away until Torc posts again. Devs should not see that as ceding any standpoint

[noobodyfool]

I'm done debating increasingly ridiculous claims and demands by a whopping two forum posters. I've made my points, as have others, and I stand by all of them. In the interest of not spamming the heck out of this thread, I'm walking away until Torc posts again. Devs should not see that as ceding any standpoint

There have many more than 2 that disagree with you many more and I just want to put it out there I'm open to compromise.
We will except 25% HP buff if you except 25% HP nerf

[Kaboom2112]

Compromise is for the weak.

Make it 100% HP and a big "I Win!" button.

[Shadow_Jumper]

what would 2500 hp with 900prr =?

25,000 hp

The sad fact is that most of the people who are arguing that these buffs are needed don’t realize that prr is the most effective form of scaling survivability in reaper. If you don’t have 200 prr on your melee build of any kind and are coming here to argue the need for more hp in high skull reaper then go back to the drawing board.

Light melee: ~200 prr
Heavy melee: ~275 prr
Tanks: ~350+

[Kaboom2112]

25,000 hp

The sad fact is that most of the people who are arguing that these buffs are needed don’t realize that prr is the most effective form of scaling survivability in reaper. If you don’t have 200 prr on your melee build of any kind and are coming here to argue the need for more hp in high skull reaper then go back to the drawing board.

Light melee: ~200 prr
Heavy melee: ~275 prr
Tanks: ~350+

Do you realize most can't hit those numbers?

[Shadow_Jumper]

Do you realize most can't hit those numbers?

Taking away all prr PLs from my light armor build I would have 194 prr. So I kinda find it doubtful that most melees can’t get near 200.

[dogbreath68]

sorry, but ive been playing since beta, back when no enhancements, what you rolled you rolled with, no help, no pay to play, no lazy lets just buy everything and then go play. dont need hp boost to survive, dont whine about my 3k hp when i see someone who has more, dont say i need things easier cuz my prr is only 223, this game is quickly becoming more and more less interesting if you can follow that. how about we stop making things easy for the ones with no game skill, make them learn to survive dont hand them a shield. lazyness is a huge part of this game now, and its really sad.

Look me up on ghallanda name is Vendemyrr, like me hate me or whatever i could give two hoots what any of you think, but if you need to learn to play ill teach you, stop being so horribly lazy and actually build a toon by yourself not cookie cut it, learn to survive on your own by actually getting a startegy, like the old saying goes, walk down and get them all, why run down and get 1? game isnt hard by any means, its not.