New Reaper Tree For Stealth And Proc Effects

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

Reaper has been the bane of autoheal favoring Melee builds, proc reliant builds, and stealth builds alike........

Why not offer a tree that lowers the penalty of self heals from item effects and tree enhancement effects on side and stealth themed factors on the other side?

Further more the core enhancements could lower the saves of enemies hit in combat.

Since I am being vague by not at all even suggesting a percentage or any sort of number at all to go with said suggestions, this tree could be anything if created from worthlessly underpowered to unfairly overpowered with the sweetspot/target being somewhere in the middle and so with the inclusion of that explanation I shoot down the criticisms I already see coming.

Equality for all playstyles that don't ask for or require an imbalance of the game mechanics!

[Domince]

Reaper has been the bane of autoheal favoring Melee builds, proc reliant builds, and stealth builds alike........

Why not offer a tree that lowers the penalty of self heals from item effects and tree enhancement effects on side and stealth themed factors on the other side?

Further more the core enhancements could lower the saves of enemies hit in combat.

Since I am being vague by not at all even suggesting a percentage or any sort of number at all to go with said suggestions, this tree could be anything if created from worthlessly underpowered to unfairly overpowered with the sweetspot/target being somewhere in the middle and so with the inclusion of that explanation I shoot down the criticisms I already see coming.

Equality for all playstyles that don't ask for or require an imbalance of the game mechanics!

No, reapers point is to make the game harder, adding more powercreep is a bad idea.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

No, reapers point is to make the game harder, adding more powercreep is a bad idea.

There are builds that Reaper does not make the game harder for, in fact with those particular builds, the only things even remotely weakened are offered fixes for them in the reaper trees...... some builds are weakened more than others in reaper mode while all builds should have equal weakening. Sure the point of reaper is to make the game more difficult according to the Devs.... however according to why all the majority of people actually play reaper.... it's the benefits that DO NOT have to go hand in hand with the challenge aspect that they play it for in reality, therefore it's not actually the challenge aspect that gives reaper the majority of appeal that it actually has to people.... besides who honestly plays reaper and decides they want a challenge and so they ignore their reaper points altogether not spending a single one of them? Actions speak much much louder than words on this, if reaper was really about the challenge then for those it is about such for.... them simply ignoring spending their reaper points would be at least somewhat common. The creation of reaper was an appeal to a niche group's desire for greater challenge and so in order to make it viable outside of that niche group they had to add non-niche benefits to conceal the truly niche nature of it. These non-Niche benefits include some of the core enhancements to reaper trees, extra experience, and cosmetics......... none of which have any well rounded reason to be bound strictly to reaper while all are in fact shown some level of value in epics as well. People still run wilderness areas for experience, people still farm Night Revels for the cosmetic armor, and people still use their brain meats in deciding at least some of the points they put into their enhancement trees and that won't change. Eventually people will max out their reaper experience, get all the cosmetics they want from it, and get bored of reaper because at the end of the day the reality is not that reaper is about the challenge, but about the extras unrelated to the challenge.

As time goes by those who sincerely run it for the challenge will be outnumbered by those who got all they sought from it and grew bored of reaper.

[Domince]

There are builds that Reaper does not make the game harder for, in fact with those particular builds, the only things even remotely weakened are offered fixes for them in the reaper trees...... some builds are weakened more than others in reaper mode while all builds should have equal weakening. Sure the point of reaper is to make the game more difficult according to the Devs.... however according to why all the majority of people actually play reaper.... it's the benefits that DO NOT have to go hand in hand with the challenge aspect that they play it for in reality, therefore it's not actually the challenge aspect that gives reaper the majority of appeal that it actually has to people.... besides who honestly plays reaper and decides they want a challenge and so they ignore their reaper points altogether not spending a single one of them? Actions speak much much louder than words on this, if reaper was really about the challenge then for those it is about such for.... them simply ignoring spending their reaper points would be at least somewhat common. The creation of reaper was an appeal to a niche group's desire for greater challenge and so in order to make it viable outside of that niche group they had to add non-niche benefits to conceal the truly niche nature of it. These non-Niche benefits include some of the core enhancements to reaper trees, extra experience, and cosmetics......... none of which have any well rounded reason to be bound strictly to reaper while all are in fact shown some level of value in epics as well. People still run wilderness areas for experience, people still farm Night Revels for the cosmetic armor, and people still use their brain meats in deciding at least some of the points they put into their enhancement trees and that won't change. Eventually people will max out their reaper experience, get all the cosmetics they want from it, and get bored of reaper because at the end of the day the reality is not that reaper is about the challenge, but about the extras unrelated to the challenge.

As time goes by those who sincerely run it for the challenge will be outnumbered by those who got all they sought from it and grew bored of reaper.

You do a hell of a lot of assumption to attempt to prove your point, tell me why big guilds are attempting R10 quest that are difficult as is, why would anyone in their right mind attempt an R10 strahd? Oh thats right, for a challenge and bragging rights. Running R10 strahd gives minimal Rxp for how long it takes compared to them just going off and doing other quest on R6 or R8.

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

You do a hell of a lot of assumption to attempt to prove your point, tell me why big guilds are attempting R10 quest that are difficult as is, why would anyone in their right mind attempt an R10 strahd? Oh thats right, for a challenge and bragging rights. Running R10 strahd gives minimal Rxp for how long it takes compared to them just going off and doing other quest on R6 or R8.

Running reaper 10 is the ultimate representation of the niche, therefore it's not assumption. If people were running reaper 10 more often than reaper 1-5..... you could easily make the argument that you are trying to make..... however on average people running reaper 10 is super rare period.... heck even reaper 5 you'll be hard pressed to find people running.

[Domince]

Running reaper 10 is the ultimate representation of the niche, therefore it's not assumption. If people were running reaper 10 more often than reaper 1-5..... you could easily make the argument that you are trying to make..... however on average people running reaper 10 is super rare period.... heck even reaper 5 you'll be hard pressed to find people running.

I can look at any day on thelanis and see a high reaper LFM up usually R7+

[Lokeal_The_Flame]

I can look at any day on thelanis and see a high reaper LFM up usually R7+

Interesting if that's the case, it would seem by some of the comments that the commonality of reaper by runs and by skulls varies from server to server with one person on a different post seeming to imply that reaper is not as common on their server...

[Valerianus]

no


because i repeat, as a friendly suggestion to improve and try other stuff, that your autoheal proc builds are a way to gimp yourself because are unreliable (maybe procs) and unviable (junk itemization heavy), and basically you are asking for a "remove reaper selfheal penalty to make my flavor barely viable" easy button.


along with a cursespewing weapon proc like some of your orbs, or augments, or filigree or whatever. :P


and leave stealth alone, the problem of stealth is the almost total fail of the worst aggro-detection system ever, not some stat. a totally different topic.

[FuryFlash]

Interesting if that's the case, it would seem by some of the comments that the commonality of reaper by runs and by skulls varies from server to server with one person on a different post seeming to imply that reaper is not as common on their server...

Yes, as I've mentioned before on the forums, Thelanis has a stable mid-high reaper endgame - I don't know what it's like on other servers, but on Thelanis, people are pugging mid reapers frequently and often open the last couple spots of higher reaper runs to public. Saying that r5+ doesn't get run is simply wrong.

As for the ideas in this thread, I'm not really interested in more power from reaper trees - variety is cool, but stuff like reducing the healing penalty is taking away from one of the best parts of reaper, which is the emphasis on group play.

[lyrecono]

Since instakill and cc casters gain more from their tree ( in the form of casting stat, more sp and dc's, not to mention the sp souls that drop), it would only make sence to put heal amp in the grim baricade tree and dps in the dread advesary tree equal to the amount of dc's casters get from their trees, because lets be fair here, casters gain a lot more from their tree then a dps melee from their tree, loosing a large % of dps isn't corrected by a few points of melee power the same way caster dc's are helper out by their reaper tree

Or, we could have the system as advertised, meant as a challange and remove the reaper trees, that way the challange wil never be invalidated. (But keep the exp system to buy cosmetics)

This way, every build will stay as challanged as they are now. (meaning casters and ranged sadly will be impacted less due to the limitations of the engine and dev creativity)

[Saekee]

that is an interesting suggestion—to make a reaper tree built around mastering stealth play in a setting that discourages it. The reaper trees are powercreepy but since they are here, I like the idea. As always, stealthy builds will not get what others get—the hp tree as first—so this makes it a cool idea with sacrifices. But it will not happen anyway.

[Alcides]

From having tanked countless reaper I regret to inform you that with current gear and trees it is by and large a group effort. Stealth builds are for solo play. While it is possible to solo reaper while levelling...The highest levels and difficulties require a group typically composed of a tank, 4 DPS/CC/Trapper and a healer. This gives the best odds of completion. Other combinations can work but those require a powerful toons with the best gear available. My tank toon can survive up to reaper 7 reliably, and to go further he needs to get more ETRs and ITRs. Does that mean my room is bad. No it just means I have to take a break from reaper play and get those things done. I wish I could bank the excess experience because I prefer max level play and my friends do as well.

The reaper trees are balanced around melee caster and tank. There are limited uses of stealth in a group reaper setting so I don't think the devs should make a forth reaper tree for stealth. Maybe a new enhancement tree but again how many of those are needed?