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  1. #1
    Community Member ifumoveudie's Avatar
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    Default Frenzied Swashbuckler???

    So I have been running a pure Bard swash for a while now, and while the toon has been a lot of fun, I was wondering, what if I added Barbarian for more Str, added Melee Power, and Cleric to cast while raged. I think running frenzied to tier 5, adding tier 4 swash, and just enough into Cleric to gain the ability to cast while raged, would be pretty fun. Anybody have any ideas on why this is a bad idea?
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifumoveudie View Post
    So I have been running a pure Bard swash for a while now, and while the toon has been a lot of fun, I was wondering, what if I added Barbarian for more Str, added Melee Power, and Cleric to cast while raged. I think running frenzied to tier 5, adding tier 4 swash, and just enough into Cleric to gain the ability to cast while raged, would be pretty fun. Anybody have any ideas on why this is a bad idea?
    Casting while Raged only means casting Cleric spells while Raged.

    However, you may not want to use Rage at all in such a build. One of the main reasons to use Swashbuckler is to permit the use of a buckler while SWF and the top tier bucklers right now are Dex-based rather than Strength-based. If you want to use any of your Bard abilities, you probably want to focus on Charisma rather than Strength. There are also a variety of stat-to-damage/tactics abilities like Know the Angle and Divine Presence that are generally more advantageous if you use a non-Strength stat for your melee.

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    I am running a Bard 3 / Barbarian 17.
    Well right now I am only level 12 or 13, using Forgotten Axe 14-20 x 5.

    The idea behind 17 barbarian is to leverage much of the new planned barbarian damage absorption. Unfortunately, the change previewed on Lamannia is not live so far.

    I was thinking about adding evasion and traps, but that would require adding some INT for skills and possibly DEX for evasion or free a feat. I was lazy and just went with STR/CON.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cru121 View Post
    I am running a Bard 3 / Barbarian 17.
    I was also thinking of barb 12 / cleric 5 / bard 3 (STR domain): you lose two ticks of damage reduction and Tireless Rage; but gain Divine Might and use STR for Reflex saves.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I was also thinking of barb 12 / cleric 5 / bard 3 (STR domain): you lose two ticks of damage reduction and Tireless Rage; but gain Divine Might and use STR for Reflex saves.
    Tireless Rage can easily be replaced with High Spirits.

    That being said, I think Str + Rage isn't a particularly effective mechanic for Barbarians right now. Contrast a traditional Rage-based Barbarian with 110 Strength vs. a Harper-based Barbarian with 90 Intelligence. The Rage version has +75 damage/+50 tactics. The Int version has +80 damage/+60 tactics. And the Int-based version doesn't have to put up the nuisances of Rage.

    So my inclination would be more like 12/7/1 (non-Raging) Barbarian/Bard/FvS, giving Divine Presence, Displacement and Frozen Fury alongside all the chunky Barbarian goodness.

  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hjarki View Post
    That being said, I think Str + Rage isn't a particularly effective mechanic for Barbarians right now. Contrast a traditional Rage-based Barbarian with 110 Strength vs. a Harper-based Barbarian with 90 Intelligence. The Rage version has +75 damage/+50 tactics. The Int version has +80 damage/+60 tactics. And the Int-based version doesn't have to put up the nuisances of Rage.
    The pure barb can take Know the Angles as well; the changes to favor Focused Wrath over Crit Rage means you have the APs to spare. So with INT as your secondary stat you could probably have, what, at least 70 INT? So much power creep these days it's hard for me to remember how ridiculous stats can get. Which means a hypothetical STR 110 INT 70 pure barb has +90 dmg / +65 DCs. Clearly stronger than the pure INT version.

    EDIT: oops I fail at math - fixed values.
    Last edited by unbongwah; 08-08-2018 at 02:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    I was also thinking of barb 12 / cleric 5 / bard 3 (STR domain): you lose two ticks of damage reduction and Tireless Rage; but gain Divine Might and use STR for Reflex saves.
    was wondering how good this kind of build would be today, and is it still worth using str to damage with the changes to divine might?

  8. #8
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noobie View Post
    was wondering how good this kind of build would be today, and is it still worth using str to damage with the changes to divine might?
    Interesting question. Swashbucklers are stuck with light armor, so having good Reflex saves is particularly important to make up for the MRR cap IMO. Low Reflex saves + low MRR = OUCH

    The big incentive for cleric 5 was using STR instead of DEX for Reflex saves, with STR obviously being boosted by Divine Might. Changing DM to be a Battle Trance like Know the Angles etc. means you're not getting that big STR boost anymore. You're still getting a STR boost from Strength domain + barbarian Rage, but you're definitely looking at lower overall STR than you had pre-U45.

    So I dunno. This was always something of a niche build concept. Bard 3 / barb 5 is really all you need to get Swashbuckling + Focused Wrath's crit bonuses. And you don't even need to Rage anymore for Focused Wrath, so you can run with Precision instead of Power Attack.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifumoveudie View Post
    So I have been running a pure Bard swash for a while now, and while the toon has been a lot of fun, I was wondering, what if I added Barbarian for more Str, added Melee Power, and Cleric to cast while raged. I think running frenzied to tier 5, adding tier 4 swash, and just enough into Cleric to gain the ability to cast while raged, would be pretty fun. Anybody have any ideas on why this is a bad idea?

    Maybe it is time to revisit this build with the tabaxi.

  10. #10
    Community Member FuzzyDuck81's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blarhblarhblarh View Post
    Maybe it is time to revisit this build with the tabaxi.
    Could certainly be fun & might be a little easier on feats with the racial abilities. I've been running a 13 bard/2 fighter/5 barb version of this build as a shadar-kai for a while (LR heart was involved, naturally) & it's great fun, has a solid thwack with handaxe & having the chain attack too is downright murderous.
    I used to be with it, but then they changed what it was, now what's it is weird and scary to me.

  11. #11
    Community Member C-Dog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ifumoveudie View Post
    and Cleric to cast while raged...?
    Dump Cleric, add Skaldic Rage (WC Core 1) and you can use a song to rage and still cast spells (and have longer duration on the Rage). Focus on more songs, and/or enhancements that avoid the post-rage crash.

    o https://ddowiki.com/page/Warchanter_enhancements#Core

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